"Dear cis gendered people
So you're supportive of trans gendered people? That's great! So many cis gendered people aren't and are even openly hostile and opposed to the mere idea of ->-bleeped-<-. You're an ally and that's great. Thanks! May I ask one thing though? When you tell other people the story of someone you know who has gender transitioned (or is in the process of doing so) could that story not go something like "so this guy that I went to school with is now a woman!" or "there's this lady at work who is now a man!". It is, I'm sure you'll agree a little sensationalist, almost designed to get a laugh or look of incredulity from the listener. "But how else would I describe it?" you may well ask. How about "Someone I went to school with is trans gendered, she's now living as a woman" or "We have a trans man at work and he's a great team member". Or maybe you don't even need to say anything... your support and understanding is demonstrated by respecting that other person's right to their privacy.
Thanks
Grace"

I am so all over this letter...I've had several people who are just totally fine with outing me to others. And then I get people I never met before going "oh yeah I heard about you you're going through this transition that's so amazing you look great blah blah..." Lol

Quote from: caleb. on December 13, 2013, 06:29:08 PM
I am so all over this letter...I've had several people who are just totally fine with outing me to others. And then I get people I never met before going "oh yeah I heard about you you're going through this transition that's so amazing you look great blah blah..." Lol

Oh, I so hate it when this happens!! For the most part, people wouldn't know.

Ummmm - yeah - good luck with that one! I'm afraid it's just human nature to gossip, and it isn't going to make an exception for trans people.

Yes I am supportive - and yes I have a bit of an idea about it all having been intersex myself, but even I have occasionally done that thing that you hate Grace.

The trouble is this is all so far outside of most cis gendered peoples experience that they just WILL talk about it - and not always in the kind of way that you and I might hope for, so my advice is get used to it, cos I promise you it won't ever change.

Oh yeah, I know that. 
It only started to annoy me recently.

Both my father and my sister have related their "I have a gay trans* friend" stories. Of course, neither were actually friends with them. It was all "Oh yeah there's this person I used to work with..." or "I know this one person who works at a diner..." And they used the wrong pronouns or focus on superficial things. I don't really blame them, it's nice that they're at least saying nice things and are supportive, but I'd just rather change the subject when stuff like that happens. >_>

I live in a seniors apartment block and that's where I've experienced the most negative responses.  There aren't many men here but most of them won't speak to me or even look at me and mis-gender me when they backbite me.  A couple of the women are very friendly and it's through them I know there are other women who are friendly to my face and hostile behind my back.

Other places I go I'm just one of the women.  It's stretching things a bit to be just one of the women in a choir when I sing bass, but I'm doing my best!

Quote from: Ms Grace on December 13, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
"Dear cis gendered people
So you're supportive of trans gendered people? That's great! So many cis gendered people aren't and are even openly hostile and opposed to the mere idea of ->-bleeped-<-. You're an ally and that's great. Thanks! May I ask one thing though? When you tell other people the story of someone you know who has gender transitioned (or is in the process of doing so) could that story not go something like "so this guy that I went to school with is now a woman!" or "there's this lady at work who is now a man!". It is, I'm sure you'll agree a little sensationalist, almost designed to get a laugh or look of incredulity from the listener. "But how else would I describe it?" you may well ask. How about "Someone I went to school with is trans gendered, she's now living as a woman" or "We have a trans man at work and he's a great team member". Or maybe you don't even need to say anything... your support and understanding is demonstrated by respecting that other person's right to their privacy.
Thanks
Grace"

The privacy aspect I agree with.  Still, most cis people don't really understand that the concepts and mean no harm when they say those things.  Nonetheless, I agree with what you are saying.  I really just want to be seen as a girl, not a transgender person.

This came to mind a few nights ago when I heard yet another story about someone who had gender transitioned. It was told by a friend who I'd consider to be very sympathetic on trans* issues and still featured the elements of "he is now a she", "my nephew is now my niece", "'John' is now 'Jane'"...you know how it goes. My friend was very supportive, saw that her 19 year old niece was now happier and more confident in her transitioned gender, etc. That was all good, and really I didn't have a problem with it at the time, after all it was nothing that I hadn't heard before - possibly the most understanding recounting of a transition I'd ever heard from a cis gendered person. But it still had that element of a story designed to be amusing and sensationalist.

And so something started to bug me. I wondered if I'd get a similar treatment from this friend when I out myself. Of course I would. And that would be from someone who is sympathetic... I wondered about all the other stories I've heard over the years, the gossip about me that spread like wild fire the first time I attempted transition (and apparently still does through indiscreet fat mouths). A bit depressing really. Like many if not all of you I'd prefer to be just known as my chosen gender not feature in some "he is now a she" story told largely behind my back for shock and/or amusement value. And that would be the people who at some level have ticked the "I support LGBTIQ" box in their heads. I hate to think about the stories told by those less supportive. It did make me wonder though, why people who are more supportive can't just tell it straight, the whole "he is now a she"/"she is now a he" schtick is not all that respectful no matter how sympathetically told. Why not, "oh yes I know a trans person who transitioned to a woman"? Unrealistic I guess but it would be more respectful and less sensationalist.

Glad to hear I not alone in feeling this way. In starting this thread I was going to just rant, but thought I'd put it in a respectful letter instead, and it felt great.

Anyone else have a respectful letter to cis gendered people?

Quote from: Ms Grace on December 14, 2013, 12:41:32 PM

Anyone else have a respectful letter to cis gendered people?

Dear Cis Folks,

Do you know Michael J. Fox? the actor, yes!

Do you know he has been married to his first wife for the last 25 years. Not bad for a Hollywood marriage, right?

Do you know he has four children, and he is a devoted father!

Do you know he was awarded an honorary medical doctor degree for his research towards the cure of Parkinson disease?

Do you know that this famous actor is a humble man who stops and talks to common people. In one occasion he closed a bar in Cleveland -to keep the media out- and proceed to just talk and drink with the bar regulars for a few hours!

Michael Fox, is a great actor, movie producer and director, wonderful father, faithful husband, and caring human been. You must agree with me that his neuronal impairment -Parkinson's disease-  does not defines his character or persona; he is much more than just a Parkinson's disease sufferer, right? You would not introduce him to your peers as "Michel J. Fox the Parkinson's sufferer"

Likewise my dear cis-folks, we the transgender people are not defined by our transgenderness, we are parents, professionals, athletes, practitioners of many trades and arts, spouses, artists, etc.. we are not defined by our transgenderness...


so do us a favor and to not introduce us by our transgenderness....OK?

Right on Pecky, I love that!

Yes, beautiful.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on December 13, 2013, 07:33:04 PM
... so my advice is get used to it, cos I promise you it won't ever change.

Patience is definitely called for but that is overly pessimistic. It will change. It's just going to take time to educate people and for people to get over their uneasiness with it.

My former partner was always asking about my friends, trying to figure out if they, too, were trans.  I wouldn't tell him.  None of his business, even though several of them are publicly out.  Not my place to tell him anyway.

I'm sure this goes on about me at work, though I personally haven't heard it and nobody has ever said anything nor asked me anything.

Though one lady at work (a supporter; her best friend is a transwoman) came up to me and asked me that since I date men, are those straight relationships or am I gay?  And here I thought it was obvious I'm an out gay man!  (but stealth trans status).

I'm stealth mainly because I don't wish for people to ask me questions about before, as 'her' because I'd prefer to forget, and I also hate knowing people are now wondering about the status of my genitals, which they probably wouldn't have given a second thought otherwise.


Jay

I can honestly say I have never spoken about a trans person in such a way, but I completely understand why you've written this!

Dear Cis Folks,

When we introduce you as our cis friend ______ , feel free to introduce us as your trans friend. If we don't, kindly take the hint. You are indirectly talking about our genitals, when you out us... I hope you realize this.

I would never introduce you to a friend of mine by saying, "This is my friend Gretchen who recently recovered from crabs." Why should you say, "This is my friend Tori. Tori used to be a boy."?

I understand cis folks, I do. Having a trans friend comes with a language lesson. Most of us trans folk are understanding and will help you learn the ropes. It is a new way of speaking for many of you but keep us in mind, and when in doubt, ask us. For the most part, we want to control who we come out to. It is much easier to spot a trans person when you already know they are trans.

That we told you is often a sign of respect and friendship. Do your best to not betray that.

Thanks,
Tori

Quote from: peky on December 14, 2013, 01:20:10 PM
Dear Cis Folks,

Do you know Michael J. Fox? the actor, yes!

Do you know he has been married to his first wife for the last 25 years. Not bad for a Hollywood marriage, right?

Do you know he has four children, and he is a devoted father!

Do you know he was awarded an honorary medical doctor degree for his research towards the cure of Parkinson disease?

Do you know that this famous actor is a humble man who stops and talks to common people. In one occasion he closed a bar in Cleveland -to keep the media out- and proceed to just talk and drink with the bar regulars for a few hours!

Michael Fox, is a great actor, movie producer and director, wonderful father, faithful husband, and caring human been. You must agree with me that his neuronal impairment -Parkinson's disease-  does not defines his character or persona; he is much more than just a Parkinson's disease sufferer, right? You would not introduce him to your peers as "Michel J. Fox the Parkinson's sufferer"

Likewise my dear cis-folks, we the transgender people are not defined by our transgenderness, we are parents, professionals, athletes, practitioners of many trades and arts, spouses, artists, etc.. we are not defined by our transgenderness...


so do us a favor and to not introduce us by our transgenderness....OK?

He'll always be just Marty McFly to me though.

BTW, what do you mean 'common folk'? People in Hollywood can kiss my horse. 

Ms. Grace, very good points.

As I would say on Facebook:
Tori - Like!
Nikko - Like!

I'll try to remember these approaches.

Quote from: Tori on January 02, 2014, 05:24:31 PM
Dear Cis Folks,

When we introduce you as our cis friend ______ , feel free to introduce us as your trans friend. If we don't, kindly take the hint. You are indirectly talking about our genitals, when you out us... I hope you realize this.

I would never introduce you to a friend of mine by saying, "This is my friend Gretchen who recently recovered from crabs." 
Why should you say, "This is my friend Tori. Tori used to be a boy."?

I understand cis folks, I do. Having a trans friend comes with a language lesson. Most of us trans folk are understanding and will help you learn the ropes. It is a new way of speaking for many of you but keep us in mind, and when in doubt, ask us. For the most part, we want to control who we come out to. It is much easier to spot a trans person when you already know they are trans.

That we told you is often a sign of respect and friendship. Do your best to not betray that.

Thanks,
Tori

Excellent....This should be required annual reading for all cis people starting in Junior High School!

I've always thought there should be a Dummies book... Trans gender for Cis DUMMIES.

Quote from: Tori on January 02, 2014, 05:24:31 PM
Dear Cis Folks,

When we introduce you as our cis friend ______ , feel free to introduce us as your trans friend. If we don't, kindly take the hint. You are indirectly talking about our genitals, when you out us... I hope you realize this.

I would never introduce you to a friend of mine by saying, "This is my friend Gretchen who recently recovered from crabs." Why should you say, "This is my friend Tori. Tori used to be a boy."?

I understand cis folks, I do. Having a trans friend comes with a language lesson. Most of us trans folk are understanding and will help you learn the ropes. It is a new way of speaking for many of you but keep us in mind, and when in doubt, ask us. For the most part, we want to control who we come out to. It is much easier to spot a trans person when you already know they are trans.

That we told you is often a sign of respect and friendship. Do your best to not betray that.

Thanks,
Tori

That i such a great point Tori. After I had detransitioned I still old a few people I felt I could trust, only to be later appalled to find out they'd gone on to tell other people, some with very fat mouths. Other people have been very respectful. The incident I mentioned above where a friend was telling me about her niece transitioning? She's married to a guy I know from uni days, who I used to socialise with as Julie back during my first go at transition. So he definitely knows about my trans* history and yet if he's told his wife I've seen no hint or clue of it.