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Transsexuals Who Have Regretted Getting SRS Done . . .

Started by Gina Taylor, December 16, 2013, 12:14:58 PM

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Gina Taylor

I recently found this interesting piece of information from the Internet about four transsexuals that regretted having changed their sex.

Renée Richards

First consider the case of Renée Richards, who transitioned and had SRS in 1975 at age 40, and who was widely outed the next year as the "transsexual tennis player". Renee's story was widely reported in the media, and her story initially did a lot of good by announcing to a new generation of young TS girls that "sex change was possible", just as Christine Jorgensen's case had done in the mid-1950's. In 1983, she went on to write an autobiography about her transition entitled "Second Serve", which stimulated further notoriety about her situation and about transsexualism in general, especially regarding whether post-op women should be allowed to participate as women in competitive sports.

Unfortunately, the extensive publicity about Renée's "sex change", publicity which she largely brought on herself, generated a widespread public image of her as a "transsexual" rather than a woman. The mystique surrounding her case widely propagated the image that post-op women are not women after all, but are instead whatever "Renée Richards" is.
Part of Renée's problem with public acceptance, and possibly (though unconsciously) with her own inner self-acceptance, was undoubtedly her unusual facial structure. She had a very feminine, well-toned and attractive body, and must have thought of herself as being very beautiful. She sought media attention at every turn, and her photos were widely disseminated.  Unfortunately, she never seemed to realize that she had a very prominent male brow-bulge and large male jaw and chin. Back in the 1970's and 80's, few transsexual women were aware that such features gave off powerful male gender cues, causing unease in other people without those people quite knowing why they felt this reaction (this awareness developed much later, in the 1990's, as people saw the dramatic before/after results of Douglas Ousterhout's pioneering facial feminization;surgeries).
 
For whatever reasons, including the sports-based notoriety surrounding her name - combined with the wide dissemination of her photographs - people always seemed to think of Renée as a "transsexual" rather than as a woman.  This was unlike the situations that had faced other widely known post-op women such as Christine Jorgensen and April Ashley, who although facing problems of discrimination were nevertheless quite generally thought of and reacted to as women by most folks, even in those early days. 
 
In the end this may have become a major problem for Renee. Or perhaps as the media attention faded and as social, relational, emotional and physical realities set in, her hopes for an unendingly sexy, exciting life as a center of attention faded too.  Whatever the reason, her transition failed to meet even her own expectations, and Renee now acknowledges that she wishes that she had NOT undergone a sex change. 


 
 
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
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Devlyn

Interesting, but you're only allowed to post 200 words and a link crediting the author. Hugs, Devlyn
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suzifrommd

Awful article. There seems to be widespread confusion among the stories between "sex change" and "gender transition". Not clear whether the subjects shouldn't have had sex changes or shouldn't have transitioned. They all SAY they shouldn't have had the sex change, but when you read the background, it seems like it was the gender transition that caused them the problem and not the operation itself. In fact, when I skimmed the article, I wasn't able to find a single problem that was caused by the surgery itself.

I don't know who wrote it, but whomever it is did very little research about the transition process. They are stuck in the mindset that SRS=transition, something that most people learn very early in their research is a widespread but especially boneheaded misconception.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Gina Taylor

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 16, 2013, 12:21:33 PM
Interesting, but you're only allowed to post 200 words and a link crediting the author. Hugs, Devlyn

Sorry Devlynn, I forgot to check my prose.

The author was Lynn Conway. You can go into anyone of her websites and find it.
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
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Devlyn

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Gina Taylor

Quote from: suzifrommd on December 16, 2013, 12:43:37 PM
Awful article. There seems to be widespread confusion among the stories between "sex change" and "gender transition". Not clear whether the subjects shouldn't have had sex changes or shouldn't have transitioned. They all SAY they shouldn't have had the sex change, but when you read the background, it seems like it was the gender transition that caused them the problem and not the operation itself. In fact, when I skimmed the article, I wasn't able to find a single problem that was caused by the surgery itself.

I don't know who wrote it, but whomever it is did very little research about the transition process. They are stuck in the mindset that SRS=transition, something that most people learn very early in their research is a widespread but especially boneheaded misconception.

What it's basically saying, is that all the transsexuals mentioned all thought that by having SRS done would make them all more feminine. But it didn't. I think what it's trying to say is worry more about the outside appearances than what people can't see.
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 16, 2013, 12:44:55 PM
Sorry Devlynn, I forgot to check my prose. The author was Lynn Conway.

I'm floored. Conway is one of the most knowledgeable and well spoken people about transgender. I'm really shocked that this came from her, but it's on her website, so it has to be from her.

I'm really surprised that she would blur the line between SRS and transition the way she does.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Ms Grace

Sorry TL:DR...

I imagine there will always be people who go though SRS and then regret it for any number of reasons. I worry that this might be me too, that no amount of surgery or HRT will change the fundamental dilemma that I wasn't born a cis woman.  :-\

It's a shame that articles like this aren't counterbalanced with stories from those who are happy with their transition. There seems to be a degree of schadenfreude in digging up examples of "failures" - to prove what point exactly I have no idea.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Adam (birkin)

Quote from: suzifrommd on December 16, 2013, 12:43:37 PM
I don't know who wrote it, but whomever it is did very little research about the transition process. They are stuck in the mindset that SRS=transition, something that most people learn very early in their research is a widespread but especially boneheaded misconception.

I think this really hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of people don't realize that transition comes with a very unique set of challenges, and it really sounds to me like a lot of the people in this article were, for whatever reason, unable to adjust. I don't even think it means they were never trans, I think it means that they didn't know how to actualize and accept themselves as their true gender emotionally.
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Gina Taylor

Quote from: suzifrommd on December 16, 2013, 01:01:39 PM
I'm floored. Conway is one of the most knowledgeable and well spoken people about transgender. I'm really shocked that this came from her, but it's on her website, so it has to be from her.

I'm really surprised that she would blur the line between SRS and transition the way she does.

Really glad that you checked it out to authenticate it.  :) I've read a lot of her stuff, and yeah, she seems to be pretty knowledgeable about things pertaining to the trangender.
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
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Gina Taylor

Quote from: caleb. on December 16, 2013, 01:12:51 PM
I think this really hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of people don't realize that transition comes with a very unique set of challenges, and it really sounds to me like a lot of the people in this article were, for whatever reason, unable to adjust. I don't even think it means they were never trans, I think it means that they didn't know how to actualize and accept themselves as their true gender emotionally.

Very good point there Caleb. I especially enjoyed the story about Sam. He had the money and he thought that by becoming a woman would be better for his life. Fortunately, because he had the money he could also return back to being a man, but emotionally he was still the same. Maybe if he had taken the time with a therapist he would have saved himself a lot of trouble.
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
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Nero

Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 16, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 16, 2013, 12:48:24 PM
Here are the posting guidelines: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,12805.0.html

Hugs, Devlyn

Maybe, if it's allright I can seperate it into four seperate posts. Will that work?

No, sorry hon, it's a copyright issue. We can only post small portions of an article with a link to the original. Just post the link so people can go to the original article to read it.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Beth Andrea

I think, imho, that many articles/tv shows that talk about regrets are basically pandering to the non-trans/allies audiences in order to affirm their own prejudiced belief that TG/TS people are fundamentally insane, and after the fact regrets = result of temporary insanity.

I would like to see some kind of essay about those with regrets, telling why/how they made the decision for the operation, and what has caused them to have regrets...the operation itself, expectations of self, acceptance by self and/or others, maintenance issues, unsuccessful outcome, etc.

That would be of more use to us, I think.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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ToxicFox

I went looking for stuff online to try and deny that I'm transsexual or push it away and most of the stuff I found about regretting is people that either their transition failed to meet their expectations or their transition was rushed. At least the stuff that is real anyways.
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Nero

Quote from: caleb. on December 16, 2013, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: suzifrommd on December 16, 2013, 12:43:37 PM
I don't know who wrote it, but whomever it is did very little research about the transition process. They are stuck in the mindset that SRS=transition, something that most people learn very early in their research is a widespread but especially boneheaded misconception.

I think this really hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of people don't realize that transition comes with a very unique set of challenges, and it really sounds to me like a lot of the people in this article were, for whatever reason, unable to adjust. I don't even think it means they were never trans, I think it means that they didn't know how to actualize and accept themselves as their true gender emotionally.

I agree with Gina - very good point. It seems like common thinking in the trans community is that if you're mentally female (or male), then everything will just fall into place. Or that anyone who has issues adjusting must not really have been trans. There's a lot more to gender than just brain sex or identity or being naturally masculine or feminine. And even for people who 'pass' well and adjust well - being trans is just not the same as being a cis man or woman - even for those with cis privilege due to stealth and appearance.

It makes perfect sense that some people no matter how 'naturally female or male' will have problems adjusting to a whole new life and gender role. After all, even if you're a trans woman who was extremely feminine in her former life as a 'guy', you're now being seen and treated differently by the world at large. It's a lot to take in. A lot to adjust to. And add to this the fact that there are so many issues (physical, psychological, and social) that trans people have to cope with that cis people don't - and it makes total sense some people may wish they'd never gone through with it and miss their old life.

Sure there are some cases of regretters who were just 'nuts' (for lack of a politer term) but that's probably not the case for many. And it does make some sense that older transitioners may be more likely to regret just because they were more entrenched in their former lives and usually have left a lot more behind than younger ones.

These kinds of stories do seem to harm the cause. But out of fear of not being taken seriously, we've sort of created this culture where those who de-transition, never transition at all, or neglect to have certain procedures are looked down upon and discouraged from telling their stories. Frankly, I don't believe that full transition is right for every case regardless of mental gender identity.

Not everybody can change one of the most fundamental things about how they experience the world - gender transition changes virtually every aspect of life - . Some can handle change better than others. Some can handle everything they may have to give up or go through better than others. Some people are simply more adaptable than others. To say nothing of the fact that many have physical and/or personality traits that make for a more favorable social reception after transition than others. (No small thing).

I don't think this says anything about who's 'really female or male' mentally or emotionally. You could have the most feminine soul in the world with a very strong female identity who simply may be less equipped for everything that successful transition involves than her more 'masculine', less binary identified counterpart. Transition is a huge life change that favors certain personalities more than others.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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KabitTarah

Quote from: FA on December 16, 2013, 02:35:13 PM
Sure there are some cases of regretters who were just 'nuts' (for lack of a politer term) but that's probably not the case for many. And it does make some sense that older transitioners may be more likely to regret just because they were more entrenched in their former lives and usually have left a lot more behind than younger ones.

There's a better term: "had underlying psychological conditions" might have been a nicer choice.

Otherwise I can agree with this and it gives me hope. I've always thought of myself as adaptable.
~ Tarah ~

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Devlyn

Quote from: kabit on December 16, 2013, 02:44:48 PM
There's a better term: "had underlying psychological conditions" might have been a nicer choice.

Otherwise I can agree with this and it gives me hope. I've always thought of myself as adaptable.

Aye.
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Miyuki

Quote from: FA on December 16, 2013, 02:35:13 PM
These kinds of stories do seem to harm the cause. But out of fear of not being taken seriously, we've sort of created this culture where those who de-transition, never transition at all, or neglect to have certain procedures are looked down upon and discouraged from telling their stories. Frankly, I don't believe that full transition is right for every case regardless of mental gender identity.

I think the important thing is to just take things slow and go one step at a time. As much as I'd like to wake up as a girl tomorrow and be recognized as one by everyone around me, I know that's not going to happen. Right now I'm just trying to figure out what feels right and what doesn't. Going on full dose HRT is the next step, and after that, well, who knows? It depends a lot on how well I am able to pass in practice, and what I think I need to feel comfortable with myself. SRS is probably the last thing I'd consider, both because passing socially is much more important to me, and because I was never sexually active as a male to begin with.

It also seems to me that for those with regrets, there are things about being male that they lost and wished they had back. Maybe if they had taken things more slowly, they would have realized how much they missed these things before they went past the point of no return. Though I can't even imagine anything like that happening in my case. There was never any part of being male I felt attached to, so there's nothing for me to miss.
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michelle

What I have learned as I have gotten old is that everything in life has its up side and its down side.   Very little happens to me in life exactly how I imagined it to happen.     Aging has brought changes to my body that has created limits to what I can do in life.   There is no perfect way to be.    I do not expect that in any way any physical changes I have made to my body to further feminize my appearance will solve any of my problems.   The changes will just help me respond in a more feminine way then I do now.    Also, what feminine parts others imagine I have will actually be there.  Having even a fake vagina will help me have sex in a more effeminate manner.   

It will never wipe away the fact that I was born with the body of a male.    It will never change that I have never have to deal with having a period.   I will never have to worry about getting pregnant.   I will have missed out on many of the experiences that most woman have.   My female organs will only be a replica of what cis woman have.

But,  I will not have to worry about being a woman with a male appearing body.    Will this ever happen, who knows.   At one time I had never imagined that I would have gotten rid of all of my male clothing and have a closet and dresser full of "my own"  female clothing which I bought   I would have never thought that I would dress as my female self all the time.   I would never have thought that many people in public would treat me as a woman.   I would never have thought that a few of my old friends would like my coming out as a transgender woman, and the rest would not unfriend me.

All of this has not solved any of my deep emotional problems,  but what is has solved for me is that I am no longer paralyzed by fear of any one finding out my secret, and I am not frightened to my core about being a female in public.   I am a female in public, and I am now just a little bit apprehensive about the possibility of someone's abusive reaction to me.   I feel freer to explore the possibilities of becoming more and more effeminate and some day changing my body physically.   I feel that I will never hide my femininity and will proudly live out the rest of my life as a woman.

Being a woman does not solve any of my problems, it just means being myself.     Regrets, there will always be.   My main regret now is that I did not begin this journey earlier in life.   I cannot regret using my male organ to father 6 children, nor will I never wish them out of existence.   So transitioning late  in life has left a lot of paradoxes in my life.   So, I expect that if I every have surgery, there will be some regrets about having it done later, and other regrets about the fact that I did not have surgery earlier in life.   Will I be a perfect woman if I have surgery,  definitely not.   Being 67 I expect as many problems with my future female organ as I have problems with my male prostrate which has started acting up.   A male organ with a urinary tract infection is not fun, especially if the doctor expects it is caused by an enlarged prostrate.   So if I some day I have a female surgery I expect that I will have problems with my vagina such as it will be, including painful urinary tract infections.   But old age for me is aches and pains and a total mismatch between the expectations that my mind has for the way my body functions and the actual way my body does function.   

Regret can be caused by to high imaginary expectations about what surgery will do.   When I look back over my life, I see my life's experiences a kin to climbing Mt. Everest.   Very few people climb Mt. Everest for the oxygen deprivation, the frost bite, or the fear of falling into an icy crevice.   If that were the case why not run naked across the thin ice on a cold winter's day.   I am sure that you can be short on breath, get frost bite, and risk falling through a crack in the ice.   Life has left my body with all of the aches and pains and more that you can get from climbing Mt.  Everest.   Having sexual reasignment surgery for me will be a similiar experience for me if it ever happens. 

Any regrets, will just be a normal part of that experience.  My life will go on.



Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
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Tessa James

Great posts all, thank you.

While it is interesting to understand others and know more about how some people react to the dynamics of transition it is still their life and definitely not mine.  We are unique and yes, adaptability is key.  My wife and I also acknowledge that many of the bigger challenges in our relationship have more to do with our fundamental skills and habits vs. my being transgender.  Communication is so important!
As an "older transitioner" it is only reasonable to acknowledge our bigger baggage profile.  For me, however, it's the bigger they are the harder they fall!  Ya, and stay down!  I am loving my transition and each step, carefully considered and deliberate, has confirmed my sense of self and my true identity.  SRS/GCS may yet be in my future but not essential.  Making progress is mostly between my ears as my body and self image get closer aligned.

NO regrets here other than starting late!
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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