Quote from: Cindy on December 20, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
Oh Honey don't get upset by a silly newspaper article.

...all the more so as the article was originally  published in a well know Australian newspaper called the "New York Post"..

Quote from: Miss_Bungle1991 on December 20, 2013, 12:42:26 PM
Is she really? I didn't even know who she was until they made fun of her on South Park. I remember when I saw the pre-show blurb on their website and all I could think was: WTF is "Honey Boo Boo?"

I thought the new reality hit here was our homophobic and racist Duck Dynasty thing?  Fortunately I was only briefly exposed to Honey Boo Boo and never to the Ducks during my channel surfing.


Meh, IMHO we could all do with plenty of humility.  Nationalistic and patriotic nonsense divides and conquers us.

Quote from: Donna E on December 20, 2013, 01:35:25 PM
I prefer to avoid this sort of thread which can get quite heated and who cares anyway but Peky, citing Mark Twain  "There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics..", you might be interested in this text 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born_scientists_and_engineers_in_the_United_States
Hugs
Donna

P.S. Obviously, this can also apply to the O.P...

Mark Twain did not know anything about statistics... neither does most people who use his misguided quote.

While it is true that a poorly conducted or analyzed statistic analyses can be misleading -as is often manipulated by politicians- the fact remain that statistics specially those validate by measurements of strength and reliability are extremely useful documenting differences, relationships, etc.


I am one of those foreign born US scientists... I earned my master and doctorate in the USA... I have live all my adult life in USA... I am a US citizen

makes no difference where you are born or where do you die what it counts is: where and for whom you fight for

The OP may have posted a "funny" or "silly," seemingly harmless article but it is not. It does perpetuate a misconception, and it is a cheap "put down" at best...

Quote from: peky on December 20, 2013, 05:36:33 PM
Mark Twain did not know anything about statistics... neither does most people who use his misguided quote.

While it is true that a poorly conducted or analyzed statistic analyses can be misleading -as is often manipulated by politicians- the fact remain that statistics specially those validate by measurements of strength and reliability are extremely useful documenting differences, relationships, etc.


I am one of those foreign born US scientists... I earned my master and doctorate in the USA... I have live all my adult life in USA... I am a US citizen

makes no difference where you are born or where do you die what it counts is: where and for whom you fight for

The OP may have posted a "funny" or "silly," seemingly harmless article but it is not. It does perpetuate a misconception, and it is a cheap "put down" at best...

Agreed. Perhaps starting threads inviting criticism of people isn't well suited for an international support community. We saw a thread locked for a very similar reason recently. My exposure to people from around the world has taught me this: Most people will say "Americans are stupid" with no more thought than I give to saying "Please pass the salt." Yet Americans are people, and we do have feelings. Being used as a soccer ball grows tiring.

Hugs, Devlyn

Oh I suppose we have all sorts of historical reasons for why this flag waving nationalism exists.

It remains a human creation folks. 

One of the most beautiful pictures ever is the photo of the earth from space.  No lines or borders really exist other than our own creations.

We are human and we share a planet with a relatively tiny and fragile biosphere.

Tis truly now and always the season for peace on earth and good will to all.

Try this to lighten up and Ho HO Ho to you too   

Quote from: Tessa James on December 20, 2013, 06:26:31 PM
Try this to lighten up and Ho HO Ho to you too   

HEY!! I am NOT a ho!

Takes a pun to know one

I like burritos and tacos. What does that make me???

Well fed?  Self satisfied?  Bi?
Do tell...

Non-binary, or non-committal...I haven't figured out which, yet

Quote from: Antonia J on December 20, 2013, 06:50:09 PM
I like burritos and tacos. What does that make me???

Mexican! 

Our journeys of self discovery continue on.......

Sounds like sour grapes because the U.S. leads the world in production of virtually everything. If it wasn't for the U.S., the rest of the world would be living under 15th century technology and standard of living. Thanks but no thanks. Studies of these type are worthless.... you can 'prove' just about anything you want. The proof is in the pudding, we're awesome (or were pre-Obama anyway), the rest of the world follows and produces stupid studies.

Quote from: Nikko on December 20, 2013, 07:25:35 PM
Sounds like sour grapes because the U.S. leads the world in production of virtually everything.

Tell that to the people that lost their jobs from being outsourced. Yeah, a lot of things may have been invented in the U.S. but that didn't mean anything once globalization really took off. I knew one guy that had a tool & die shop that he built from the ground up and ran it for thirty years. He eventually had to shut his doors once Chinese companies were outbidding him. The kicker is that his employees often had to be sent out of town on jobs to fix the machines that these idiots couldn't build to run properly. But eventually, all of the work dried up and that was it.

Talk to him about sour grapes.

Oh...our downward slide started LONG before Obama. I think all politicians suck so I am not defending anyone. But the truth is that only a fool would believe that Obama started all of this.

US adults aren't necessarily dumber, they're just willfully ignorant. 

It's like an aberrant offshoot of the Dunning-Kruger effect*.  We're so busy shouting "U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A" that we haven't noticed that were falling behind in Science, Math, Health Care, Social Welfare, Infrastructure.... etc.etc.etc.

It's this sort of jingoistic, false patriotism that keeps us from addressing the real problems that the U.S. faces. 
Heck,  half our problems are caused by our willful ignorance, general suspicion of science and anybody who seems like they're smarter than we are, and our willingness to dismiss anything that we can't understand.

Sorry, for the rant... I live in the U.S. and I have a deep and abiding love for my country... but it doesn't extend to those who mistake their own self-interest and ignorance for nationalist fervor.  I hate feeling like I have to apologize to the rest of the world, the scientific community, and civilization at large for the vocal minority of yahoos that live here.

BTW... Average U.S. IQ is just 98.  So yes. Science says that on the whole we're dumber than the median IQ.
www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/

*(Please excuse the blatant quote from wikipedia.)

"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude."

Kia Ora,

Tis a fact "Stupidity Knows No Country's Boundaries " (No country's immune )

Metta Zenda

By that link, the US is on level with Australia and France, and is a point above Canada.

The US is the only country for which a thread like this would be tolerated, right?  I mean, sure, we're collectively one of the world leaders when it comes to flag-waving, but that's definitely not who a lot of us are.  It's kind of like casting generalities about men/women, blacks/whites/asians/etc, Christians/Jews/Muslims/Buddhists/etc... it's a pretty tired shtick, and it's only interesting when it subverts expectations.  I mean, just as SunKat says that US patriotism keeps the country from addressing its problems, saying its residents are dumb doesn't address its problems either.

To make things even weirder, if you break down states into their own categories, you can start ranking states (with many capable of rising quite high or falling quite low on the worldwide rankings if they were treated as their own countries).  Here are a couple sources with estimates: http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2010/05/state-iq-estimates-2009.html http://sq.4mg.com/IQ-States.htm .  There are substantial discrepancies, but they show a substantial diversity that probably owes itself (in great part) to education.

Quote from: Miss_Bungle1991 on December 20, 2013, 07:31:04 PM
Tell that to the people that lost their jobs from being outsourced. Yeah, a lot of things may have been invented in the U.S. but that didn't mean anything once globalization really took off. I knew one guy that had a tool & die shop that he built from the ground up and ran it for thirty years. He eventually had to shut his doors once Chinese companies were outbidding him. The kicker is that his employees often had to be sent out of town on jobs to fix the machines that these idiots couldn't build to run properly. But eventually, all of the work dried up and that was it.

Talk to him about sour grapes.

Oh...our downward slide started LONG before Obama. I think all politicians suck so I am not defending anyone. But the truth is that only a fool would believe that Obama started all of this.

Only a fool thinks I said Obama started all of 'this'.

But Obama's ultimate goals are pure devastation. This next year is going to be pure chaos as obamacare starts doing to employer insurance plans what it did to my individual insurance plan. My premium quadrupled and I'm now uninsured because I can't afford insurance. I've chosen to increase my life insurance instead. I'm not afraid of dying, I think being forced to buy unaffordable health insurance is tyranny. BTW, these new plans SUCK! My deductible would've been $6,500 in network ($19,500 out of network! And my network is slim pickens, the $19,500 is probably the most likely deductible. The copay is anywhere between 25% to 50% depending on the 'situation'). But I'm glad the 'winners' of this debacle are getting free healthcare.

Obama is an incompetent liar who spent a billion dollars on a website that could've been bought off the shelf for less than a million dollars. It's obscene the government is doing this in the first place.

Obama didn't start this, but democrats did, he's just put the destruction of our country on steroids. Spending future generation's futures for his own political gain. Not unheard of, but he's the master of it, it's the only thing he's good at.

The freedom and liberty that turned stupider than average Americans into huge successes is being lost. But hey, people who choose to sit around in their pajamas drinking hot chocolate have crappy free healthcare. Yippee.

  We have more choices here in the US.  You can be an idiot and get away with it.  We do have a lot of smart people, but they don't use what was called "common sense".  We have people in my astronomy club doing external outreach to schools and they are complaining that the science teachers at the elementary and middle school levels don't know the basics of astronomy!  They cannot name the 8 planets!  I know there was 9, but remember a bunch of PhD's did demote Pluto to "Dwarf Planet" status.  Too many things are done for us because of the technology.  Too much typing on the keyboard or twiddling a game console before a monitor instead of shaping a piece of wood for example, does less for us. 

  But when television is bad, nothing is worse. I invite each of you to sit down in front of your television set when your station goes on the air and stay there, for a day, without a book, without a magazine, without a newspaper, without a profit and loss sheet or a rating book to distract you. Keep your eyes glued to that set until the station signs off. I can assure you that what you will observe is a vast wasteland.  Newton N Minow, FCC chairman on May 9, 1961.  Speech in front of the National Association of Broadcasters meeting.

  Joelene

Quote from: Joelene9 on December 21, 2013, 05:57:32 AM
  We have more choices here in the US.  You can be an idiot and get away with it.  We do have a lot of smart people, but they don't use what was called "common sense".  We have people in my astronomy club doing external outreach to schools and they are complaining that the science teachers at the elementary and middle school levels don't know the basics of astronomy!  They cannot name the 8 planets!  I know there was 9, but remember a bunch of PhD's did demote Pluto to "Dwarf Planet" status.  Too many things are done for us because of the technology.  Too much typing on the keyboard or twiddling a game console before a monitor instead of shaping a piece of wood for example, does less for us. 

  But when television is bad, nothing is worse. I invite each of you to sit down in front of your television set when your station goes on the air and stay there, for a day, without a book, without a magazine, without a newspaper, without a profit and loss sheet or a rating book to distract you. Keep your eyes glued to that set until the station signs off. I can assure you that what you will observe is a vast wasteland.  Newton N Minow, FCC chairman on May 9, 1961.  Speech in front of the National Association of Broadcasters meeting.

  Joelene

Very true. Americans have had tremendous freedom to be what their free-will yields them. Many take this for granted or have bought into the false notion they can't succeed on their own. Many others know better and have created very meaningful lives. Average these groups out and the U.S. doesn't appear special.  Freedom requires personal responsibility and motivation for success for it to work wonders for people.

Ya, that was 1961 when it took all day of viewing TV to see it's a wasteland. Today it takes just a few minutes. I doubt any TV show has done more damage to a nation's image and soul than 'Keeping up with the Kardashians', such a bunch of worthless human debris.