Kabit : Ouch, that's gotta be uncomfortable.

Learningtolive : Yeah, you might notice more of the crap I'm talking about - I didn't want to admit it, but for me personally while I was part-time I sort of enjoyed the opportunity to "escape" back into male mode (I hated everything else about it, of course).

Quote from: Jenna Marie on December 21, 2013, 11:49:50 AM
Kabit : Ouch, that's gotta be uncomfortable.

Maybe I just imagined the nearly imperceptible pause after that was said.........

In guy mode I admit that I was pretty oblivious to how women are treated, although on the surface I understood some of what was happening.

On the other hand as a beta male I didn't seem to get much male privilege; I routinely got talked over in meetings and was otherwise disrespected by guys so I got a little taste of what that's like.

One of the books I read recently was Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano. I wanted to read that to prepare for whats coming. It was a little terrifying.

Growing up I was surrounded by strong women. My mom was a smart woman and she had some feminist tendencies, and she rankled with the attitudes that she had to endure. Both of my grandmothers were tour de forces, very strong women. I married a smart, very strong woman. My daughters are showing signs of being smart, strong women. So I've had the model set for me by these women as I launch out into the world as a woman.

I know that I will have to endure even more stuff than a cis woman has to endure because I'm a trans woman, but I think (and hope) that I have the strength to deal with it, because of the strong women that have been in my life - they set the model.

"Whipping Girl" is the best and most important education on this, IMO! (Not that I've read much else yet).

That's education.... not experience. They're not really comparable to me.

Quote from: Eva Marie on December 21, 2013, 12:42:41 PM
One of the books I read recently was Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano. I wanted to read that to prepare for whats coming. It was a little terrifying.

Thanks for pointing it out. I just got it and started reading the first page. Already sounds like it's very much in-line with what I've been thinking about lately.

I transitioned in 1974 at the age of 24. I came from a background of rural life with a father who encouraged me to try anything that interested me and to not take 'no' for an answer but the 'gender disparity' was still like running into a brick wall! Getting a job was MUCH harder and to achieve advancement a woman had to be MUCH superior to her coworkers and even then women were not paid as much as men. It drove me  to become a  feminist - not a placard-carrying carrying protester but a shrewd, calculating schemer who would let a company clearly violate non-discriminatory regulations while documenting their transgressions and then nail them to the wall with a discrimination complaint. A few companies fell into this trap and had to change their ways as a result but even 40 years down the road I was still experiencing "the glass ceiling" but most  companies had become much better at not getting caught.

We wont even talk about retail outlets like service stations and other business that expect women to be dumb and compliant!

I am glad I am retired now and don't have to deal with that crap any more.

Quote from: learningtolive on December 21, 2013, 08:50:50 AM
I grew up with mostly female influence, so I may be a bit different than others here.  Growing up in a household with two older sisters and a very vocal mother may shape the way you perceive things.  In many ways, I was never socialized to be your typical "guy".  Different really does explain me and my childhood pretty well.  In any event, I really see nothing different than before, but I was always a hard core gender egalitarian and never really was included as one of the guys; therefore, I didn't have the typical male privilege in many ways.  And even when I did, I saw through it and noticed what was happening.  Maybe I'll notice more things once I go full time.

Yep, similar for me except...

OMG.  Woman to woman interactions and the way some women treat other women; both the good and the bad.  I am so totally clueless there.  This is going to take work. 

Hugs,

Jen

I will agree I was quite ignorant to how women were treated....much of this was because of my past gender I was forced to live in. Their is no way of feeling how anyone different than you is treated, albeit weight, physically challenged or even gender, until you live in their eyes!!

I will admit the instances of chivalry was exciting at first...but I now have become accustomed to it. It's almost to the point I expect it...which I don't intentionally feel this way, but I'm just so use to it.

I was recently waiting in line at a convenience store, the place I was in line was splitting into two...the man next to me did arrive before me but was about equal in both lines....the clerk asked to help the next person....I was about to step forward since I figure he would gesture so, instead he stepped up and didn't even look at me. I was like WTF!! What shocked me more though was my thinking.....I kinda expected him to let me go ahead, even though he was their first!!

I will say one of the biggest changes I have noticed is how I interact with men at work.....the way I am treated is sooooo much different, I honestly believe most of these men would not like me if I was male. I actually get along more with the men then I do the women.....other women can be quite catty.....bitches!!

I grew up with 3brothers and no sisters so Id no female influence in my life except my Mother. When I transition, guys holding doors open for me, insistent on walking me home or getting a cab for me on a dark night was a little scary at first, I remember a guy at school who was a typical bully, a nasty guy, I met him many years later after my transition, he didn't recognize me, but just saw me as a woman, he was like a different person, he was horrible to other guys, but sweet and charming around women, it was weird, well he wasn't my kind of guy, I remember discussing it afterwards with my mother, who just laughed it off, welcome to womanhood.
It took me a while getting used to it, like the time when a young mother on a train ticked off her young son to have manners, give up his seat for the lady, she smiled at me and I smiled back, her son wasn't pleased, it starts at a young age.

I was a very observing kid...so I noticed that women were treated differently from an early age....
by the time I was in my early teens I found the male jokes about girls "stupid" and "hard to understand"

Now that I finally de-transitioned -from the imposed male role- I have run into the usual male chauvinistic discrimination but it is also noteworthy to point out that females also speak and treat men despairingly...true that the violence seems to come from the male side but make no mistake, the females are cunning and underhanded in their power struggles and they do not hesitate to use flirting to gain advantages...

Quote from: JLT1 on December 22, 2013, 10:08:14 PM
Yep, similar for me except...

OMG.  Woman to woman interactions and the way some women treat other women; both the good and the bad.  I am so totally clueless there.  This is going to take work. 

Hugs,

Jen

I see what you mean.  While I have seen some of the dynamics of woman to woman interactions and male to female interactions, it's hard to fully understand what you don't directly experience yourself.  Again, having grown up with mostly female influence, I have seen a lot that has left me with an image of what it's like.  However, that picture will probably be more complete once I start to live in those shoes myself, especially how women treat one another.  Then again, as someone who was often perceived as a fem gay guy throughout most of my life, I sort of have an idea, lol.  Seriously though, I'm sure I'll learn and perceive things different as I go on.

Quote from: peky on December 23, 2013, 05:51:44 PM
I was a very observing kid...so I noticed that women were treated differently from an early age....
by the time I was in my early teens I found the male jokes about girls "stupid" and "hard to understand"

Now that I finally de-transitioned -from the imposed male role- I have run into the usual male chauvinistic discrimination but it is also noteworthy to point out that females also speak and treat men despairingly...true that the violence seems to come from the male side but make no mistake, the females are cunning and underhanded in their power struggles and they do not hesitate to use flirting to gain advantages...

One of the first things I noticed when going FT was how many women would use the reference "well that's men for ya" or "its a man thing"....at first I was very reluctant to agree or disagree since I really didn't know much more than the obvious traits such as ...men don't care to shop, men just don't see the colors in that and such and such.....

I can now relate much more but still not fully since I wasn't married to a man or dated one for a long duration. The interaction I have had with men so far though has proved that men are a different species at times!!