Quote from: LizMarie on December 17, 2013, 11:08:37 AMEven so, as I've mentioned, RLE was one way for the medical profession to reduce "regret" issues with SRS surgery. It's not a very good tool but it's the only tool they had. And yes, it's giving way to informed consent. I wonder if cases of regret will rise again the way they were before the WPATH SOC earlier versions were published?

Exactly.

I don't know when they changed the SoC (obviously I had an old version, and just got the new version), so if it's been changed for a while now it will probably stay that way. Doctors of course, often do things their own way, and don't always follow it. So if they want to cover their ass, they might insist on RLE. Then you need to find a new doctor.

I'm glad you highlighted how we are all different. I also don't need RLE first. I know who I am after all these years. I just want to get out of this shell! And I've talked to other people my age that weren't as sure, so they did RLE for a year just to see how they liked it.

And for me it's more about other people's image of me matching my image of me. The way people treat you has a big impact on your day to day life. And sad but true, more attractive women are treated better.  That's why I don't care as much about SRS as I do FFS, and plus I never minded what I had, even though I'd prefer a vulva. (such a cute word lol)

Quote from: LizMarie on December 17, 2013, 11:08:37 AM
Some of us also have extreme body dysphoria. On more than one occasion when I was young, I thought about "cutting it off". My marriage was wracked by long intermittent periods of being unable to function sexually at all, because I was dysphoric that I have a penis not a vagina.

So, quite honestly, even if I was gendered male in public for the rest of my life, if I could have SRS, I would, because for me every day when I get out of the shower, or go to the bathroom, this is a constant reminder of what is wrong with me.

Lots of others don't have body dysphoria like I do. I understand and accept that. Honestly, I plan to do SRS first (especially if I can get insurance coverage for it), then FFS, then probably VFS. So while it's not a big deal to society, it's a big deal to me.

Even so, as I've mentioned, RLE was one way for the medical profession to reduce "regret" issues with SRS surgery. It's not a very good tool but it's the only tool they had. And yes, it's giving way to informed consent. I wonder if cases of regret will rise again the way they were before the WPATH SOC earlier versions were published?

This is exactly why I am reserving my decision on GRS. In high school my body dysphoria was much worse... I also tried removing the offending parts... though I didn't do a very good job, thankfully!

Now, my social dysphoria is worse... and I have a wife I love. If we stick together, I will probably not end up doing any experimentation (i.e. dating of men or women). Maybe I'll still want GRS, maybe I won't. I'm pretty abivalent toward GRS while the social aspect causes me significant pain... If I do end up dating (especially men) I may be much more interested in GRS it's not because of the dating... and only partly about sex... but I also never felt right having sex as a man with a woman... the only time it worked was when I successfully imagined our positions reversed.

Quote from: kabit on December 17, 2013, 12:18:53 PMbut I also never felt right having sex as a man with a woman... the only time it worked was when I successfully imagined our positions reversed.

I always loved it, however, I tend to pick very sexually aggressive women. So a lot of times they were in charge. I liked it that way.  So we didn't stick to gender roles.

So there's another option.

Quote from: RavenMoon on December 17, 2013, 12:29:23 PM
I always loved it, however, I tend to pick very sexually aggressive women. So a lot of times they were in charge. I liked it that way.  So we didn't stick to gender roles.

So there's another option.

I don't believe it is...! At least not for me in my current situation

Quote from: LizMarie on December 17, 2013, 11:08:37 AM
My marriage was wracked by long intermittent periods of being unable to function sexually at all, because I was dysphoric that I have a penis not a vagina.

So, quite honestly, even if I was gendered male in public for the rest of my life, if I could have SRS, I would, because for me every day when I get out of the shower, or go to the bathroom, this is a constant reminder of what is wrong with me.

I think you just said exactly what I was trying to say back on top of page 2, only better. Those who were confused about what I was saying, there we go. That's the exact same way that I feel.

I don't like it because there are so many factors with transition and this just acts as gate-keeping for us. To standardize such a personal surgery for who can get it when I don't think does us good. I believe receiving our letters for surgery should be highly personalized on a person by person basis. Some people are ready a lot earlier than others are and some need to wait for years to get it. It does us a disservice by forcing us to go through certain standards just to receive such a life enhancing surgery.

Honestly if I could I would be getting my surgery this summer but because of all this I need to wait another year and a half from now because my RLE is starting on my trans birthday 3rd January, 2014. Some people should be able to receive it much sooner than others, I've known since the spring that this is the right path and I really wish I could have scheduled my surgery back during the summer for the following year.

Reading about old-school RLE as a teenager likely delayed my transitioning by fifteen years. Back then, I knew what I needed to do, but couldn't face the thought of being that exposed. It's a wretched system, serving only as a barrier to appropriate care. 

Quote from: Riley Skye on December 22, 2013, 03:29:10 PM
I don't like it because there are so many factors with transition and this just acts as gate-keeping for us. To standardize such a personal surgery for who can get it when I don't think does us good. I believe receiving our letters for surgery should be highly personalized on a person by person basis. Some people are ready a lot earlier than others are and some need to wait for years to get it. It does us a disservice by forcing us to go through certain standards just to receive such a life enhancing surgery.

The reasons for it was because it's pretty much irreversible surgery (assuming we are talking about SRS/GRS). There are people who have changed their minds afterwards. One person went from male to female and back to male again. 

QuoteHonestly if I could I would be getting my surgery this summer but because of all this I need to wait another year and a half from now because my RLE is starting on my trans birthday 3rd January, 2014. Some people should be able to receive it much sooner than others, I've known since the spring that this is the right path and I really wish I could have scheduled my surgery back during the summer for the following year.

I'm not exactly sure how it's "life enhancing" surgery though. What part of your life will be enhanced?

Realistically, my quality of life will be much better after FFS and possibly breast augmentation (if needed). Then people will react to me as they would any other female. Currently that would NEVER happen. I have no plans on setting myself up for that kind of unpleasant experience.   
No one knows what I have down there if I don't want them to know. lol  I'll like to get an orchiectomy even if I don't have vaginoplasty.

I understand everyone's wants/needs are different, but if you can't pass, your day-to-day existence might not be a lot of fun, because the world is filled with closed minded (and sometimes dangerous) people. Having SRS won't magically fix anything, because no one knows you had it but you.

Just something to think about.

Quote from: RavenMoon on December 22, 2013, 05:52:04 PM
I'm not exactly sure how it's "life enhancing" surgery though. What part of your life will be enhanced?

For me, I hope to be more at peace with my body.

Quote from: RavenMoon on December 22, 2013, 05:52:04 PM
I understand everyone's wants/needs are different, but if you can't pass, your day-to-day existence might not be a lot of fun, because the world is filled with closed minded (and sometimes dangerous) people.

And yet I know many women who don't pass but are very happy with their transitions.

Quote from: Jennygirl on December 13, 2013, 01:41:58 AM
Yes, kinda agree.

The only part I don't agree w/ is the not really living as a woman bit. Passing is not the definition of living as a female. Being female is the definition of being a female

But the relation to RLE requirement I do agree with. For some, who do care a lot about being passable before starting this ridiculous RLE, it could be downright traumatizing. Not helpful at all.

Bottom line. RLE = totally bogus! If I try to imagine having to go through that in my own transition, basically add a whole slew of discomfort, fear, and anxiety that would not have needed to be there.

Informed consent is the future

This is a tough one for me.  I got a medical waiver for RLE.  The waiver was in part because of certain medical issues and was justifiable on it's own.  It was in part due to a total inability on my part to do RLE without looking the part (jennygirl is absolutely correct, it can be traumatizing).  I totally panicked every time I went out because I didn't look like a woman.  It was also in part because I really frightened everyone when I purchased a beautiful and very fast car so that I could guarantee death when I hit a concrete embankment going 170 mph.  And I was/am serious.*

However, I think some experience walking the walk (or as close to RLE as possible) is a good thing.  One year is arbitrary and there should be flexibility there. But the flexibility should be between the person needing SRS and the professionals and family in their life.  Ultimately, a person's life is their own. The intent of RLE is to prevent someone from making a permanent and life altering mistake.  However, if the requirement for the prevention of one life altering mistake moves someone into making a different and possibly even more permanent life altering mistake, it is self defeating. 

The requirement for one year RLE prior to HRT is cruel and insane.

So, my plan is chemical castration in January to help with the medical stuff.  There will one surgery in Feb. to partially deal with one of the other medical issues.  FFS is scheduled for March 8.  SRS should be in Nov. and will deal the other part of the medical as well as the mental.  There is several months of something very close to RLE in there.

*My transition and medical issues are both very complicated and play off each other.  They are also inseparable to a certain degree.  It is a beautiful body and an ugly face that drives fear.   It is the physical pain that drives the sense of futility.  It is aberrant hormonal issues that drive depression.  When all of this hits simultaneously, continuing to desire to live becomes difficult.  Sometimes, one just needs hope.  And until recently, there really wasn't much.  Now, there is at least some.  It is better, in all areas. 

Hugs to all,

Jen

Quote from: JLT1 on December 22, 2013, 10:59:16 PMIt was in part due to a total inability on my part to do RLE without looking the part (jennygirl is absolutely correct, it can be traumatizing).  I totally panicked every time I went out because I didn't look like a woman...

It is a beautiful body and an ugly face that drives fear.

This is my exact feelings on this. And there is a big different between being a not so attractive woman, and looking like a man in a dress. I could maybe handle the being the former, but have no interest in being the latter.

So I'm not rushing anything. I'll do it when I'm ready to do it the way I want.

And best of luck to you with your surgeries!

Jen,

I haven't been active here for some times and I have missed great news. Congratulations on your FFS and SRS dates. That is great news and a huge step forward into the womanhood. I think that Dr Z is a great choice and I wish you a very successful surgery.

Hugs,
Anna

ugh YES. Yes yes and yes.

I'll soon be dealing with a 'hormone readiness assessment', which is as awful as it sounds. So far I've convinced them that, yup, I am capable of making my own decisions by repeatedly bringing up the fact that I bind and wear a packer. Because that is definitely how you weed out the fakers.

Also, I don't understand how I'm supposed to go full time without hormones. For those of us without degrees, at least in my industry / city, that would mean losing our job. So all this RLE talk is garbage.

/rant

sorry to comment on a post that has gone a bit dead but I couldn't help it.

I had to wait 8 months for hormones whilst waiting for my legal permission slip. Despite the fact that I was fully socially transitioned and had been for some time, at one point my psych said "I think this is a good thing because it allows you to be really certain in your decision." I could've punched the man square in his face were I not constantly having to constantly prove I was emotionally stable.

The funny thing is I don't know how many times I have been told testosterone will make me aggressive by these people

Quote from: swan on December 23, 2013, 08:30:38 PM
Jen,

I haven't been active here for some times and I have missed great news. Congratulations on your FFS and SRS dates. That is great news and a huge step forward into the womanhood. I think that Dr Z is a great choice and I wish you a very successful surgery.

Hugs,
Anna

Swan,

Thank you.  I'm excited and terrified at the same time.  Being beautiful would be wonderful.  Heck, average would be wonderful.   Passing is the goal.

Hugs,

Jen

Quote from: suzifrommd on December 22, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
And yet I know many women who don't pass but are very happy with their transitions.

Different strokes for different folks.  I know some people for whom that is true.  I know others for whom, if they could not pass as their target gender, they would not transition at all.  Heavens, for me a big part of my issues was that I never fully mastered passing as a guy and fitting into that scene.

I think it's another case of different strokes for different folks. .  Everyone's goal and reason for transitioning differs. 

I think that my issue with "Real Life Experience" is that they are trying to apply a one size fits all definition to something that can't be defined. No two people's (cis or trans) life experiences are the same. How does one define what qualifies as "Real Life Experience"?

I also realize that many medical treatments such as hormones or surgery are not easily reversed if they are able to be reversed at all. While I am all for the informed consent model of treatment, there does need to be some sort of measure in place to ensure that the patient understands what they are getting themselves into and if the treatments will actually help. There are many situations where we find that the true underlying issue is not what we initially thought it was.

There is an extremely delicate balance between responsible treatment and gate keeping. The first thing a medical doctor is taught in medical school is "do no harm". I would think that it has got to be difficult for a medical professional to decide what is more harmful... off label usage of medications, or allowing a person to live in a body they hate. While I am ecstatic that I have a caring and sympathetic doctor that is willing to help me, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. 

I don't really know about other people......everyone's transition is different.......

But I did "RLE" for well over a year before hormones....without a doctor or therapist's recommendation, and without knowing there was a word for it......I just got fed up, and started living as a woman one day......eventually I just realized that getting on hormones made sense and was more financially feasible and worthwhile.....

in the end, I'm glad I did.....I was a lot more prepared to handle everything for having spent that time as a woman before making permanent physical changes.....but, as I've come to find out, I'm pretty atypical.

Anyway just my two cents....

Quote from: Oriah on January 31, 2014, 10:30:29 PM

but, as I've come to find out, I'm pretty atypical.

Oriah,

You bring a different and much needed view to this forum.  That is special.  Thank you for being here and posting. 

Hugs,

Jen

Quote from: KabitTarah on November 30, 2013, 08:23:42 PM
I thought the Benjamin stuff was from the 50's - 60's... I mean... we're not required to do RLT before HRT anymore!! This stuff has evolved.

Benjamin was the guy who said that maybe this stuff is real, and not just a psychosis. He was the good guy... and his ideas made a lot of sense back when he had them.

It sucks that our sisters lives were so affected by the evolution in psychology and neuroscience... but I'm thankful those ideas were hashed out and gatekeeping is slowly disappearing.

RLE seems to be a relic from a prior period, back when this was viewed as a psychosis. It's generally accepted to be a natural normal condition now, so why the need for psychologist letters and RLE? The reason it doesn't exist for FFS is because FFS came after this mindset. You can have surgery on your genitals for practically any reason with no approval, except when to change it to the other sex organ. You can essentially have plastic surgeons do anything except sex change. RLE prior to passing is like having people walk in public naked to determine if they really need that new suit or dress. It can be humiliating.