for those who we've come out to, that know we're transgender (MtF and FtM etc.) to be able to digest it all or most of it and to be able to start letting us be ourselves and calling us by our new name/male/female titles etc.? I also ask the same thing but this time for those who are religious as, people let their religious views cloud their judgment sometimes and also make it harder to get through to them when it comes to this. (No offense to anyone) I also add this, if you don't see the person but once every two weeks, and usually for a few mins but still speak too often, then how much time is enough time?

In my case, my Dad has it so I don't wear dresses, skirts or makeup around him, along with a few other small things and I know he's not willing at this point to call me female titles etc. and is hardly using gender neutral terms when referring to me. (Can you say, brick wall almost?) I have let him know at least 2-3 times now this is only temporary (Me not wearing that stuff around him) and as time goes on and he gets more used to seeing me wear female clothes, I'll eventually be wearing all of the stuff and be myself around him. Each time he hasn't said anything in regards to what I said. Oh and yes, he's a religious person.

That's a really good question, and honestly it can really be a pain because people being people, it varies a lot. Some people will probably never adjust, because in their memories and way to recognize you is of your original gender. Others feel like they are losing you, which totally isn't true. When it comes to religion I do agree with you though, but some people can really take that out of hand for a lot of things.

I hope your Dad comes around to you though. It's only gonna get harder for the both of you.

I can only speak from the perspective of being in a relationship with one came from a devout Catholic family.  What I found is love for their child trumped what was ingrained in them from religious teachings and beliefs.  If anything, dad perhaps thought he was losing his only son, but at the end of the day, he gained a happier daughter.

Well it can take years or days , depends on the person ...
some never accept it ,,,

I think it would be ok  for you to put a little pressure on your dad if you are really eager to start living as a girl more

Quote from: Shana-chan on December 24, 2013, 01:31:57 PM
I also add this, if you don't see the person but once every two weeks, and usually for a few mins but still speak too often, then how much time is enough time?

My opinions will be unpopular, but you asked.

It doesn't matter that your dad is religious.
It doesn't matter that your dad is judgmental.

If he loves you, he OWES it to you to accept you as you are. Not whenever, but NOW. How he does that is up to him. I suggest that you don't make it your problem. It's his. It's his job to get his head around to reality, not reality's job to mold itself to what is in his head.

He has no right to tell you what to wear around him. Would he have a right to ask a cisgendered son to wear dresses to please him? Of course not.

This is the same thing.

Your job is to make your expectations clear. For example: (1) I will dress as my identified gender. You will accept my clothing and presentation the way you would accept any woman. (2) Like any other person, I expect you to respectfully use the name and pronouns that make me comfortable. (3) I expect you to offer support and encouragement as you would anyone you love who is going through a difficult transition. (4) I expect you to keep your religion and any judgment of my behavior to yourself. (5) I expect you to educate yourself about my condition.

You can't control what he does and it doesn't help to wonder how long it will take. Here's what you have control over:
* You have control over the expectations you set and how you communicate them.
* You have control over how much you expose yourself to judgment and less-than-respectful treatment.
* You have control over letting go of all the stuff you don't control.

Since these are the only things you can control, I suggest you take maximum advantage of them.

I really hope this helps.

I think "enough time" depends on how much effort you see them making.  I'm willing to be more patient with some one who is making an effort than I am with someone who isn't trying or is being actively antagonistic.  Life is too short to knock yourself against a brick wall.
The fact that you are asking "How Long" means that it is probably long past "enough time".

Quote from: Lavender on December 24, 2013, 03:11:19 PM
That's a really good question, and honestly it can really be a pain because people being people, it varies a lot. Some people will probably never adjust, because in their memories and way to recognize you is of your original gender. Others feel like they are losing you, which totally isn't true. When it comes to religion I do agree with you though, but some people can really take that out of hand for a lot of things.

I hope your Dad comes around to you though. It's only gonna get harder for the both of you.

My mom is exactly the same way, and she's a very religious persons as well. But they can't use religion as a crutch. 'Cos we're talking about people here; flesh and blood people that are going through changes and with some prayer it may help, but it's not gonna change things, but as said, my mom has told me that once I become a woman her son is dead to her and like all mothers that carried their child for 9 months they tend to hold onto those memories of their child as they were.

I really give you kudos for having the courage to dress infornt of your stepfather, and are trying to get him to adjust to it. That's actually something that I was thinking about doing last week with my parents after the holidays.

I get the same thing with my mother; she won't let me wear female clothing or present as female near her because she says she's "not ready."
A little ironic, as the best way for her to adapt to me being around is for me to, you know, be around.
Unfortunately, that's not how they see it, of course.

I wish you the best of luck, and you'll be the first one I tell if I find something that works for this.

Your father is as unique as you are. Everyone is different. You clearly hold his religion against him while expecting him to accept everything you ask of him. Take your time. Pressuring people is rarely an ideal strategy.

I gave my family 3 years and then began insisting...they were mad for a while but they adjusted because I think they realized it was time. Honestly, once your appearance changes enough to pass in public, it's been enough time imo.

5 seconds is enough time.

Ok put it this way, how long should it take an openly racist person to be told to stop being racist in front of black person?

Does it matter if the racist person has been racist for 50 years?

The answer is no.

A complete stranger mis gendering you can be said to have made an honest mistake if you have too many confusing tells.

Someone that actually KNOWS you, is not making an honest mistake. They simply don't care enough. It's not important enough to them. The pain they cause you is simply not real enough to them. It doesn't hurt them, so they don't suffer any discomfort. It means too little to them.

I'm not playing the 'give them time' game.

All you can do is tell them, accept me as I am, failure might cost them. It might cost them immediately, it might cost them at a later time when they might regret it.

Those that genuinely don't care about you, well stop crying over those people that don't give a damn about your life.
Fish or cut bait with these people that are more harm than they are worth.
If you refuse to make people change, you can't expect them to do so.

What, you expected me to spout off warm fuzzy advice?
Life is not always pleasant.

Hugs, this is hurtful for you and I know your pain.

I have no comment on religion.

You as your identity strengthens you will tolerate less and less bigotry. You will either endure, express or walk away. These are your options.

I think by giving people time you're enabling them to procrastinate dealing with reality. That said, I do understand a mourning period because mourning is an act of dealing with and accepting change. Mourning is a perfectly natural part of this process.

Meanwhile what is giving time doing? I think it's like saying, "Yes, I will allow you to call me hurtful names while you get over whatever hang ups that you've got that make you want to abuse me." Doesn't seem right. Yet challenging these people might cause them to run away, like my dad did from my life. Tell you what though, I'd rather have him gone than calling me names.

Quote from: Misato on December 25, 2013, 04:36:55 PM
I think by giving people time you're enabling them to procrastinate dealing with reality. That said, I do understand a mourning period because mourning is an act of dealing with and accepting change. Mourning is a perfectly natural part of this process.

Meanwhile what is giving time doing? I think it's like saying, "Yes, I will allow you to call me hurtful names while you get over whatever hang ups that you've got that make you want to abuse me." Doesn't seem right. Yet challenging these people might cause them to run away, like my dad did from my life. Tell you what though, I'd rather have him gone than calling me names.

Y'know Misato, I think that you've made a very good point here. recently I've been looking over the average ages of the members and they're falling between 40-60 and we have soem young ones as well, but we've all known about our problems for a long time, and I'm sure that we've discussed this with either our parents or our wives or husbands at one point or another and we've more or less have put the seed into their minds that we feel different and that we'd like to correct the problem. Now from what you're saying is that we've given them time to digest what we've told them and now they're just procrastinating over our problem hoping that it will either correct itself or that we'll forget about it. Well . . . it's still here, and now we're gonna be doing something about it and we've given those that we've told more than enough time to digest it. As for me, my mom has know about me being a transsexual for eight years, and now I'm seriously doing something about it. Eight years is more than enough time to digest what I've told her. And like you said Misato, she will have to accept the change.

I dont know how much is enough time. My mom just keeps going with the name calling if she catches me with something feminine. I feel that sometimes there is just just never enough time to let them deal because they are set in their opinions.

Think of it like this, when you get married, you marry the person, and you do NOT look forward to changing them, you get what you married.

Your choices were always like what you have, or why did you get married?

That is what you tell friends and family. Like what you have.

Their only alternative is deal with it and don't waste my life waiting, or walk away.

You likely will never change anyone, they either ARE the sort that actually gets it and realizes using the old way hurts you, or they just don't care.

Don't spend any of your valuable life waiting for people to change, odds are you are a girl to them by the end of the day or you simply will NEVER be that to them at all ever.

YOU decide who is in your life, not the other way around.
If you leave people in your life that insist on doing you harm, well to be blunt, no one likes hearing complaints from a person that isn't interested in fixing the problem.

I have no people in my own life that I have a problem with. I discarded those people already.

Interesting slight change of subject here. But just last night my cousin was telling me that my parents need me as much as I need them. Unfortunately the only thing that I need my mom for is to look after my disability money because it was court approved. I can easily walk out the door and do what ever as long as I have the necessary money deposited into my liquid account every month. And believe me, it's coming very close.

Now most of my acquaintance know that I'm a transsexual, but since they're not related to me, they could really care either way. So I'd never be looking for a hand out from any of them.

Personally, I'm in the "depends on how much effort they're making" camp. The people who decided to say "screw you, my right to be judgmental is more important than my relationship with you"? I promptly ditched them. The ones who made a genuine, good-faith effort but made mistakes and apologized/corrected immediately, I was willing to be patient up to a point. And that point depended on how close they were to me, how hard they tried, and how much I cared about losing them.

My own parents took about a year to get the name right, and started trying on pronouns after a few months on HRT. They were 100% supportive in every other way, though (including giving me money for transition and going to bat for me with other relatives), and I saw my mother *cry* when she first tried to say my new name - it caused her pain, too. It wasn't all about me.

So there's no easy answer, unfortunately. I don't think you should hesitate much longer in living as you really are, even if your dad's not listening when you tell him your plans. If he seems like he wants to meet you halfway - if - you can try to be patient. If not, well, maybe he'll come around when he realizes how much he misses his daughter?

The majority of my family is Southern Baptist. I lost 95% of my family when I started living full time over a decade ago. I never 'asked for permission' to be myself. I told those who I thought were important in my life and then I'm sure it spread through the grapevine. I gave my mom an acceptable amount of time to adjust...about a year, when she wouldn't adjust on her own (she did the ostrich thing and ignored) I ended up giving her a choice to lose me from her life or respect me as who I am. Granted I was living on my own so I would not recommend that approach to anyone still under their parent's roof. It did show her how serious I was at that point and she quickly became more accepting. Accidental slip ups have happened over the years but she's old and human so it's ok. She apologizes and we move on.