Hi everyone I'm currently doing so research on various FFS surgeons and who would overall be the best choice.

Currently Dr Bart Van de ven is at the top of my list as his website is very impressive and his results are quite amazing.

I've also looked up Speigel and Dr O and Z but they seem a bit hit and miss for me and I want someone who can give good constant results whilst being reasonably affordable.

Also as a side note is payment over a 12-36 monthly plan instead of full payment of the bat possible? Just It will take me a couple of years to save up enough for the full surgery cost and I'd prefer to have it done sooner rather than later and don't want to have to wait 2+ years.

Please don't spare any details I like having as much information as possible before making my choice ad the last thing I'd want is a less than satisfactory result.

My main area's of focus are the jaw+ chin and forehead + brow and hairline area.
Here are a couple pics.


Thanks girls
Edit: good point uploaded a couple pics .

Hi,
I did my surgery with Dr Van de Ven and he literally transformed me, so much so that after my second surgery even my eldest daughter and close friends failed to recognize me initially when we again met up a couple of months afterwards.
Pricewise, he and Dr Di Maggio are in a very similar  bracket but while I have great respect for the quality of Dr Di Maggio's work, if you need aggressive surgery (I did), Dr VdV will go further than Dr Di Maggio, who I also consulted so I am talking from direct experience.
In my mind they are presently probably two of the best around in terms of price/quality ratio, far more affordable than Dr's O and S and just must better technically than Dr Z from the photos I have seen. He is probably OK for young ladies who don't require too much work but if your face is more of a challenge, I believe Dr's Di Maggio and Van de Ven would be much better options.
Happy to provide you with more details if you like.
Hugs
Donna

Quote from: Donna E on December 24, 2013, 03:14:16 PM
Hi,
I did my surgery with Dr Van de Ven and he literally transformed me, so much so that after my second surgery even my eldest daughter and close friends failed to recognize me initially when we again met up a couple of months afterwards.
Pricewise, he and Dr Di Maggio are in a very similar  bracket but while I have great respect for the quality of Dr Di Maggio's work, if you need aggressive surgery (I did), Dr VdV will go further than Dr Di Maggio, who I also consulted so I am talking from direct experience.
In my mind they are presently probably two of the best around in terms of price/quality ratio, far more affordable than Dr's O and S and just must better technically than Dr Z from the photos I have seen. He is probably OK for young ladies who don't require too much work but if your face is more of a challenge, I believe Dr's Di Maggio and Van de Ven would be much better options.
Happy to provide you with more details if you like.
Hugs
Donna

Thankyou Donna I would love even more details . I can I say judging from your FFS Dr Bart certainly looks very promising. I'll probably need to get a bank loan as I'll easily be able to pay that off over a monthly period.

Quote from: samantha55522 on December 25, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
Dear Paiege,

I saw several patients from Dr Di Maggio and also some from Dr. Bart. Both surgeon are fantastic.

I went to Atlanta for SCC last september and assist both conference.

Dr Di Maggio showed a lot of kind of results the most agressive that I saw in my life and others conservative depending on each patient needed.

Is not true that Bart do a more aggressive work. I can not see that in real patients and also in pictures at the SCC & around internet, rather I saw the exact opposite.
Perhaps DM decided to dont do your surgery, and probably had his reasons, but be sure the reason never will be for more or less conservative or aggressive aproach.

At the SCC, DM talked about another important different, He does an special work in the orbital rim, he said in Atlanta "look at the expresion of the eyes", and if you see Abby for example is true. Dr. Bart was in the room and agreed with Di Maggio comment. (look like have a very good realationship).

My personal opinion is Di Maggio is the best of the world in Forehead & Orbital Reconstructive Surgery. But FFS is not only that. Probably Bart has in jaw remodeling better results, not sure, but not at the forehead,...The forehead results of Di Maggio during last 10 years talking for him self.

Pictures before and after, foros like FFS-support, SCC conference, google....do your home work and go with your personal thought.

S.

Yes I'm thinking the best for me would be for Dr Maggio to work on the forehead and orbital area and once I've finished my electrolysis have Dr Bart work on my mandible. I'm extremely impressed by Dr M's forehead work, especially abby's result and am definitely going to fish out as much info as I can from him. 

Quote from: samantha55522 on December 25, 2013, 09:24:32 AM
Dear Paiege,

I saw several patients from Dr Di Maggio and also some from Dr. Bart. Both surgeon are fantastic.

I went to Atlanta for SCC last september and assist both conference.

Dr Di Maggio showed a lot of kind of results the most agressive that I saw in my life and others conservative depending on each patient needed.

Is not true that Bart do a more aggressive work. I can not see that in real patients and also in pictures at the SCC & around internet, rather I saw the exact opposite.
S.

Samantha.
How many real patients of either of these doctors have you actually met? I know for a fact, as I consulted both, that Dr VdV was willing to do more agressive surgery on my chin than Dr Di Maggio (or Spiegel who I also consulted)  Also, what allows you to talk about the work that Dr Di Maggio has been doing for the last 10 years? I have seen no examples of FFs surgery done by Dr Di Maggio from 10 years ago and doubt many other people have either  (earliest on the Yahoo forum dates from 2008). Also have you yourself actually done FFS and if yes, with who?

To be honest, apart from being certain that Dr VdV is willing to take more risks than Dr Di Maggio (which has it's downsides too BTW as the more you push to the limit the more risk there is of nerve damage and it did take me a long time to recover sensation in my chin), I would defy anyone to say which of the two is the better and it is something I wouldn't get into an argument about. Even for foreheads, the job Dr VdV did on my forehead is quite remarkable( a real type III)  and unless I also did surgery with Dr Di Maggio, I would have no way of saying which is the better.

End of the day, once you are pretty sure you are talking with a well established specialist,  it comes down to who you feel most comfortable with and issues like price and proximity. Living in France, it was far easier for me to go to Belgium than go to Argentina and Dr VdV only asks you to stay 10 days compared with double that for Dr Di Maggio.

With that, I'll leave you with your certainties based on only you know what objective criteria.
Hugs
Donna   

Quote from: Paige0000 on December 24, 2013, 06:53:17 PM
Thankyou Donna I would love even more details . I can I say judging from your FFS Dr Bart certainly looks very promising. I'll probably need to get a bank loan as I'll easily be able to pay that off over a monthly period.

Hi Paige. There is a complete photographic history of my journey with Dr VdV on the Yahoo FFS Support forum. If you are already signed up there you might have seen it. Otherwise it's a very good resource in general with a lot of ex- Di Maggio patients as members too. They are actually probably the majority, it least it often seems like that..
Hugs
Donna

I would like to suggest Frans Norman van Dussen and Facial Team to your list. They have an approach to feminize a face without making it looking like it would be a different person. I like the approach also to avoid implants. I visited both and BvdV and decided to book the surgery at Facial Team in Marbella.

Lara

Samantha
For privacy reasons, I didn't really want to go down this road but here are a couple of my own before and afters. I would argue that given the starting point this was quite a challenge and that the forehead work (done in July 2011) leaves little to be desired, all the more so as, unlike surgeons like Dr Z,  no fillers are used. IMHO the chin and nose are also pretty neat, again given my age (56)  and the starting point which was as masculine as they come...







These photos are from March 2013 and two months ago I had a face lift done plus a final tweak to the nose to finish the job off. These procedures were graciously provided by Dr VdV as free revisions since, because of post-surgical swelling, the facelift I did along with my chin and jaw surgery in August 2012, didn't give fully satisfactory results.
Hugs
Donna


P.S. To those who place all their hopes in HRT. I was already on HRT for almost 2 years when the before photos were taken. Past a certain age, the effect on the face seems to be pretty minimal. It has however given excellent results in other areas like skin tone, loss of body hair, breast growth etc..

Quote from: samantha55522 on December 26, 2013, 08:22:19 AM
Dear D., I read your records at FFS-support. I dont like to do an evaluation about your case, we are not talking about your case....The frontal bone  in your case is ok, but nothing superlative, you can see a lot of results like yours not only from Di Maggio also Suporn, Ousterhoud,etcetc, for the rest of your face looks pretty well, but to get that result you had to perform multiple surgeries and not just two surgeries, like the example I post in before post.
You can find a lot of  2 steps MDM patients (complete FFS + Face Lift)  in less than 1 month, with an excellente results

Anyway you look pretty well, and I repeat I like Dr. Bart work but  permit me to think differently and say that I like more Di Maggio work, primarily on the forehead & orbital rim....

Hope is too much posts for this kind of disagreement.
Hugs.
S.

Samantha,
No I absolutely did not do multiple surgeries to get the results in the photos, I did upper face surgery in July 2011 and lower face in August 2012, two completely distinct sets of procedures.  As stated in one of my previous posts, I did however recently completely redo the facelift and like many other people, had my (very difficult) nose fine tuned.

Also I am not suggesting the work is superlative but I am definitely suggesting that my face was far more of a challenge than a twenty something year old and that to judge a surgeons work it is very important to understand the starting point.With a young, already feminine face, it is much easier to get an attractive result than with someone like me.  Also, since you are intent on claiming that Dr D does better forehead work than Dr VdV, I am curious to know what, in your highly informed opinion he might have done better in my case?

Actually to see this one through, please find below a photo of me taken in June 2011 before I did any surgery and another taken this morning (w/o makeup).  If you can point me to many results where the surgeon has managed such a radical change, especially the overall shape of the face, I'd be very interested in seeing them.



As I already said, what bothers me in your writing is not that you are trying to promote Dr D, it is that you make definitive sounding statements which I have considerable difficulty in understanding, all the more so as apparently you have no direct experience of surgery with either of the two surgeons we are talking about.
Best regards
Donna

P.S. Dr VdV charges about half of what Dr O charges.

P.P.S. I am only two months past my facelift so there is still some stiffness and lumpiness in my facial muscles.

Quote
Actually to see this one through, please find below a photo of me taken in June 2011 before I did any surgery and another taken this morning (w/o makeup).  If you can point me to many results where the surgeon has managed such a radical change, especially the overall shape of the face, I'd be very interested in seeing them.

Me too. The first thing I noticed was how dramatic the overall shape of your face has changed.

Quote from: samantha55522 on December 26, 2013, 10:06:21 AM
Oh, Honey I can not public here all the pictures before & after of each sergeons...I dont have and also for private reason.

I do not need to describe my research in FFS to everybody just to write my objetive point of view, based only in before & after pictures and in a coupple of conference at the SCC in Atlanta of both surgeons, Bart & MDM.

Your face look good I told you and also Dr. Bart did a good work with your face in general (you described 4 procedures is like a multiple)....probably MDM prefer to do patient with a more complexity in the forehead & orbital  than in the rest of the face. Your face had a real complexity in total but not especifically at your forehead....sorry is my point of view.

You can find same kind of results with others surgeons...for example this 2 pictures that you can see at FFS-support group, and also there are much more....and sorry this is my last email in this post, I dont like to discuss...just objetive pictures public around internet.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ffs-support/photos/albums/1902964441/lightbox/1090398389#
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ffs-support/photos/albums/1902964441/lightbox/1234754898


Before surgery.

....After surgery

Hugs.
S.

Dear Samantha,
If you base your "objective point of view" on Bren's results and similar successes, I suggest you have a very good look at the before pictures. She started with a very, very  feminine face (eyes, nose and overall shape of face), so, unsurprisingly, the end result also looks very good.

For me this is a real issue in evaluating a surgeons work. Any half decent surgeon can get good results with a face that it is fairly feminine to start with. The real challenges come from people like me and that's when you see what a surgeon is really capable of. Given this, the only photos worth looking at are side by side before and afters taken in more or less identical conditions. Anything less than this does not allow you to make a serious evaluation of the work. 

Against that, I would never venture to say that Dr VdV is the best at anything. What I would say though, based on real personal experience, is that he got me a vastly superior result to what  I had expected, much, much better than the VFFS simulations I did with Alexandra. In doing this, he has given me a face I actually like and since I got to know him quite well between June 2011 and Oct 2013 when I did my final surgery, I also got to see how willing he was to go the extra mile to insure that I got the best possible result. He even offered me a free canthopexy which I turned down as I considered that the risks outweighed the benefits.

No heresay, just my objective input based on my subjective experience...
Hugs
Donna


     

Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 10:19:23 AM
Me too. The first thing I noticed was how dramatic the overall shape of your face has changed.

Hi Nikko,
Dr VdV likes to be able to do the whole face as he considers the complete picture right from the start. In my case, he used medpore implants when he did the upper face surgery in July 2011 and to be frank, I didn't really like them at first as I felt they added too much width to my face.

However, one year later, once the lower face surgery was done with an almost 1cm reduction in chin height, I finally got to see what he was trying to achieve, a far rounder, almost heart shaped form. Until I did my recent facelift, there was still a bit too much sagging skin left over around my chin for this effect to be as good as I felt was achievable but now I think it is as good as I could have hoped for and that's it, no more facial surgery! 
Hugs
Donna

Donna, Thanks for posting these pictures from today. You look great! Even with the stifness from the recent facelift your lower face has very feminine outline. And the difference in comparison with your old face makes the result even more remarkable.
Congratulations!

Quote from: Donna E on December 26, 2013, 10:47:13 AM
Hi Nikko,
Dr VdV likes to be able to do the whole face as he considers the complete picture right from the start. In my case, he used medpore implants when he did the upper face surgery in July 2011 and to be frank, I didn't really like them at first as I felt they added too much width to my face.

However, one year later, once the lower face surgery was done with an almost 1cm reduction in chin height, I finally got to see what he was trying to achieve, a far rounder, almost heart shaped form. Until I did my recent facelift, there was still a bit too much sagging skin left over around my chin for this effect to be as good as I felt was achievable but now I think it is as good as I could have hoped for and that's it, no more facial surgery! 
Hugs
Donna

I think some people feel FFS surgeons are simply 'upselling' their services when they suggest multiple procedures (to increase their profit). But it's critical to do our due diligence to understand all the parts of both male and female faces and how they interact to indicate male versus female, natural versus unnatural, etc. Your results are very natural and very female, you look terrific. It must feel great to be done! 

Celia, Nikko.
Thanks for your comments. I am effectively very happy with the results all the more so as I was anything but certain that such a complete transformation could be achieved when I started out. Most of all though, FFS has allowed me to achieve a level of comfort with my female presentation that has dramatically facilitated my transition and that is quite priceless.

Given some of the comments I have seen here from someone who seems to have something of a private agenda I would really like to insist on the following, succeeding FFS with  a young and already attractive trans woman is relatively easy. Anyone who knows anything about FFS knows that acheiving what Dr VdV did with me is not.
Hugs
Donna

Quote from: Donna E on December 26, 2013, 05:42:52 PM
Celia, Nikko.
Thanks for your comments. I am effectively very happy with the results all the more so as I was anything but certain that such a complete transformation could be achieved when I started out. Most of all though, FFS has allowed me to achieve a level of comfort with my female presentation that has dramatically facilitated my transition and that is quite priceless.

Given some of the comments I have seen here from someone who seems to have something of a private agenda I would really like to insist on the following, succeeding FFS with  a young and already attractive trans woman is relatively easy. Anyone who knows anything about FFS knows that acheiving what Dr VdV did with me is not.
Hugs
Donna

Long story short here for all the ladies, I think you are gorgeous and classy looking Donna, you have had a wonderful outcome for anyone who has transitioned later in life and are an inspiration to all of us.

Quote from: samantha55522 on December 26, 2013, 06:34:02 PM
I think some people fell really bud with their self, and also try to offend others just because think differents. I dont need to promote any surgeon, I really think like a lot of sisters that MDM is a fantastic surgeon. What is the problem with this.....I can not believe your rude and discriminacion just because I think that your result is good but nothing special, and also because I think that Bart is good but not the best.....
Too much for today and tomorrow. Have a goodnight and excuse me to all for answer to someone this kind of blasphemy.
S.

Samantha,
Enough people on this forum have got to know me over the last 9 months to know that I certainly don't feel bad about myself but now let's talk a little about you. Your first post on the forum dates from the 12th Oct 2012 and unlike most people, you didn't even introduce yourself, you just waded in promoting Dr Di Maggio.

"mmmm, sorry I disagree with you. Dr. Di Maggio is considered one of the best in the world, specifically in forehead reconstructive, go to FFS support there are a lot of patients pictures with spectacular examples. Take care. Samantha. " 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,128093.msg1014471.html#msg1014471

Since then, including the posts on this thread, you have done 27 posts of which more the 50% are in direct praise of Dr Di Maggio. That to me makes it look like you have an agenda which is anything but objective.

The funniest thing about this is that you apparently haven't even done FFS yourself. Do you even identify as TG?

Concerning this particular thread, since you consider yourself to be an FFS expert, I asked you to tell me what you thought could have been better done in surgical terms with my forehead. No answer. Why? Because there is no obvious answer but that was too difficult for you to admit.

No instead of that, you posted another message encouraging people to look at Abby's photos so that they could see what really good work looks like. I am personnally delighted for Abby and posted a message on her thread saying so, well before you showed up. However comparing the results of a 24 year old who started from a pretty good place to the results of a 56 year old who started from a very difficult place is not only stupid from a technical point of view, it is also extremely rude.

If you think you are a positive presence on this forum you have a lot of self belief. To me you are a fraud from every point of view and I don't mind saying so in public.

Goodbye!
Donna

Donna, I agree with you that there seems to be a private agenda in this member's posts. That's not what bothers me most, though. What really annoys me is how unnecessarily aggressive and disrespectful their posts are.

Celia

Quote from: Celia0428 on December 27, 2013, 07:26:54 AM
Donna, I agree with you that there seems to be a private agenda in this member's posts. That's not what bothers me most, though. What really annoys me is how unnecessarily aggressive and disrespectful their posts are.

Celia

Thanks Celia,
I was wondering if I was not being over sensitive. Nice to know that you picked up on that too!

Also, just so everyone knows I am in good faith regarding my initial input on this thread, here is an extract from the reply I got from Amanda when I first contacted Dr Di Maggio.

In regards of the quality of your physical presentation as a factor in the decision making of starting to fully transition, Dr. Di Maggio thinks that after surgery your face will result much more female than now, but due to the angles and characteristics of your face as a whole (especially the forehead and the nose) the result overall might not be as female as other results from Dr. Di Maggio. Of course, this opinion might be wrong. It has happened before that some results were much better than the initial expectations. In the worst case scenario, you will get a more delicate, female and much younger face than now which would help you with your current lifestyle (female in your private life, male at work) if you don't dare going full time in the end.

I hope this observations doesn't stop you from transition, because they shouldn't. Sometimes living full time is not all about how passable your face is, but rather about how you manage to carry around the face you have.


I rest my case !
Hugs
Donna

P.S. Otherwise, I continue to believe that Dr Di Maggio is an excellent surgeon and also said as much in my initial post.

lol somebody pissed off when their favorite dr criticized. Does Dr Maggio is the best for forehead contouring ? hardly.