Quote from: Tessa James on December 26, 2013, 08:19:47 PM
Thank you Nikko.  Seriously, I needed a good laugh and a good tweek back

I thought you'd find it somewhat humorous... mission accomplished. 

Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 08:06:27 AM
Let me tell you what insurance is, it's a mechanism for willing participants to spread THEIR risk over time.

What we have now isn't insurance.  What we have now is middle-men and big government inflating healthcare costs.  Insurance shouldn't cover pre-existing conditions, because they are pre-existing.  That would be like me being up to my neck in floodwater, and then using my cellphone to call the insurance agency and try to buy a flood insurance policy.  Insurance has historically been a pool of money from a large group of people that might be paid out to a small group of people in the event of unlikely circumstances.  With the pre-existing condition clause, it has become a pool of money from a large group of people that WILL be paid out in the event of LIKELY circumstances, some of which are already known.  Premiums and taxes MUST rise to pay for that.

Forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions would be like forcing home insurance companies to offer me flood insurance when I am up to my neck in water.

Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!

But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.

Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!

But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.

What am I??? Chopped liver??? 

With all due respect Stephe, the shame is on you.

This topic is harming many of us and I found it very helpful to discuss. Again, for those who have very limited comfort zones, please stay clear of these topics, it's not worth it.

I wish you well dear.

Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!

But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.

If there wasn't a politics board, you'd have a point, but there is and that's where these posts are placed.  I'm no conservative as anyone can tell you and Jamie and I don't agree on much at all, but I don't think it's fair to call Jamie out like this.  I've gotten irritated by some of the constant political bickering before and hate the partisan tone the boards can take at times; however, Susan decided to include this board and it's her site.  Give Jamie some credit.  He/she (sorry not sure which pronoun to use) isn't such a bad person.   

Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!

But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.

Stephe,

Your being really unfair with those comments. Regardless of the ACA and its positive/negative aspects, people have the right to discuss them. Accusing members of being right wing extremist for voicing their opinion is totally out of bounds. If you think any of the comments in this thread are "right wing extremist", then you don't get around much. We're all in the same boat(Trans). 

To top it all off, you threaten to leave the forum. Trying to make everyone think the big bad "non liberal" members are the cause. Or is your plan to get the thread shut down, that way nobody can say anything negative about the all mighty Obamacare?

Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
This is a political thread, you don't have to participate. The title of the thread gives ample evidence of what this discussion is about.

I wish people would stop bashing my views, but I'm not going to go to threads I'm not interested in and start whining about it.

Good grief.

Sure hope this was not directed at the MODERATOR.

Quote from: DanicaCarin on December 29, 2013, 01:16:21 AM
Stephe,

Your being really unfair with those comments. Regardless of the ACA and its positive/negative aspects, people have the right to discuss them. Accusing members of being right wing extremist for voicing their opinion is totally out of bounds. If you think any of the comments in this thread are "right wing extremist", then you don't get around much. We're all in the same boat(Trans). 

To top it all off, you threaten to leave the forum. Trying to make everyone think the big bad "non liberal" members are the cause. Or is your plan to get the thread shut down, that way nobody can say anything negative about the all mighty Obamacare?

The funny thing is I'm a huge hippie lefty and even I'm mixed with the affordable care act.  I have major issues with Obama and the current political environment, but I am no conservative and probably more progressive than most people you will meet.  Not all disagreement with the President or his party's platform is coming from the right or "extreme" right.  If it does, I would be a very interesting addition to the tea party, lol.   

Having said that, I do hate when we have threads that were created with the sole purpose of bashing one side or the other on this forum which does occur from time to time.  It happens to both sides and it can be annoying when we forget our purpose is to build an inclusive and supportive environment.  And as a lefty, some of the conservative liberal bashing threads can irk me at times and make me feel alienated,  so I can understand why people can get annoyed; however, I don't think Jamie has any malicious intent, and I refuse to believe that she/he (sorry about the pronoun confusion) is trying to stir up hatred of members to them against one another. 

Quote from: learningtolive on December 29, 2013, 07:05:42 AM
The funny thing is I'm a huge hippie lefty and even I'm mixed with the affordable care act.  I have major issues with Obama and the current political environment, but I am no conservative and probably more progressive than most people you will meet.  Not all disagreement with the President or his party's platform is coming from the right or "extreme" right.  If it does, I would be a very interesting addition to the tea party, lol.   

Having said that, I do hate when we have threads that were created with the sole purpose of bashing one side or the other on this forum which does occur from time to time.  It happens to both sides and it can be annoying when we forget our purpose is to build an inclusive and supportive environment.  And as a lefty, some of the conservative liberal bashing threads can irk me at times and make me feel alienated,  so I can understand why people can get annoyed; however, I don't think Jamie has any malicious intent, and I refuse to believe that she/he (sorry about the pronoun confusion) is trying to stir up hatred of members to them against one another.

I know the feeling Learning..... I'm a Libertarian. I think the US government is the biggest criminal enterprise in the history of Man. The Dem's & Repub"s are full of meadow muffins and the Country is one step away from bankruptcy. If we all stopped listening to the BS, started voting on results & the Constitution,  we would be much better off.

Happy New Year....

Quote from: learningtolive on December 28, 2013, 02:26:20 PM

Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!

But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.

If there wasn't a politics board, you'd have a point, but there is and that's where these posts are placed.  I'm no conservative as anyone can tell you and Jamie and I don't agree on much at all, but I don't think it's fair to call Jamie out like this.  I've gotten irritated by some of the constant political bickering before and hate the partisan tone the boards can take at times; however, Susan decided to include this board and it's her site.  Give Jamie some credit.  He/she (sorry not sure which pronoun to use) isn't such a bad person.

LTL is correct. This is the politics board. We also have boards for all kinds of topics unrelated to TG issues. We also have the ignore board and ignore topic feature. There are some boards that I stay away from. You have options. You can ignore the entire politics board or a single thread. Tips on how to do so from a member:

QuoteQuote from: big head horsey-face on December 21, 2013, 03:08:57 pm

Go to your profile, under modify profile-->look and layout, you will go to the bottom and there is a spot that says "Show quick moderation as" and you set it to checkboxes. Then when you are in unread topics, there will be little checkboxes by the topics that you can check and then choose ignore topics at the top right by mark selected messages as read.

You can even ignore a member if their posts bother you. There's no reason to leave the site over one small area. Plenty of other non-political discussions going on. Hope you stick around. 

Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!

But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.

I echo Steph general position that JamieD, as a long standing "anchor" on this forum should not initiate threads -like this one- that are going to lead to nothing but dissent.

On the other hand I do not think that JamieD does this constant pro extreme right campaigning out of malice but rather out of a true political and religious beliefs, and that we should respect JamieD rights to do so. We should abstain from personal attacks to good old JamieD, and agree to disagree.

Susan's forum is a microcosm that truly parallels the what is going on the world at large.

The globalization of the world, and specifically the globalization of the western culture has brought this philosophical diametrically-opposed groups to continued and more visible "war" on the nature of human relationships, and the roles of the state laws.

Lets look at the history of the west for the past two hounded years, the two sides (liberal vs conservatives have been fighting over:

slavery,
racism,
children labor laws,
women right to vote,
the rights of the so called minorities,
the rights of women,
the rights of poor people to food and health care and education,
the rights of homosexuals, and more recently,
the rights of transgender people

I agree with FA.  There are many sections on susan's which if I went there I would get into arguments and I hate being in arguments so I don't go there.  The politics board is probably one of them.

Quote from: learningtolive on December 28, 2013, 02:26:20 PM
If there wasn't a politics board, you'd have a point, but there is and that's where these posts are placed.  I'm no conservative as anyone can tell you and Jamie and I don't agree on much at all, but I don't think it's fair to call Jamie out like this.  I've gotten irritated by some of the constant political bickering before and hate the partisan tone the boards can take at times; however, Susan decided to include this board and it's her site.  Give Jamie some credit.  He/she (sorry not sure which pronoun to use) isn't such a bad person.

They, them, their.

LOL, I think I'll take "isn't such a bad person"! 

Okay, for the people complaining about deductible costs.

For each insurance company I've had, the deductible has been high.

On my latest plan before i got employer coverage, it was a terribly expensive private plan under my parents. Deductible was like five grand with 250$ emergency room copays. BUT, for doctor visits, I never paid more than the copay to see them, unless it was a specialist.

Unless this evil Barack Hitler Obama law changes how deductibles work, you will only be responsible for the deductible costs for procedures like surgeries, and once you fulfill your deductible, you don't have one for the rest of the year.  I don't know how other plans work for other people, but all four plans I've had in my life have worked this way

Quote from: VeryGnawty on December 27, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
What we have now isn't insurance.  What we have now is middle-men and big government inflating healthcare costs.  Insurance shouldn't cover pre-existing conditions, because they are pre-existing.  That would be like me being up to my neck in floodwater, and then using my cellphone to call the insurance agency and try to buy a flood insurance policy.  Insurance has historically been a pool of money from a large group of people that might be paid out to a small group of people in the event of unlikely circumstances.  With the pre-existing condition clause, it has become a pool of money from a large group of people that WILL be paid out in the event of LIKELY circumstances, some of which are already known.  Premiums and taxes MUST rise to pay for that.

Forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions would be like forcing home insurance companies to offer me flood insurance when I am up to my neck in water.

I have ulcerative colitis.  It's a genetic autoimmune disease of the colon.

I was diagnosed when I was twenty one.  If the aca didn't roll out when it did, allowing me to stay on my parents' plan until I was twenty six, I don't know where I would be.

Medications for maintenance without insurance would cost sixteen hundred usd/month, not counting doctor visits.

I would be uninsurable due to this 'pre-existing condition'

It seems that the only people not wanting pre-existing conditions to be covered don't have such conditions themselves, hence the childish flood insurance analogy that comes up. It's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality

Quote from: Hideyoshi on December 30, 2013, 09:10:17 AM
I have ulcerative colitis.  It's a genetic autoimmune disease of the colon.

I was diagnosed when I was twenty one.  If the aca didn't roll out when it did, allowing me to stay on my parents' plan until I was twenty six, I don't know where I would be.

Medications for maintenance without insurance would cost sixteen hundred usd/month, not counting doctor visits.

I would be uninsurable due to this 'pre-existing condition'

It seems that the only people not wanting pre-existing conditions to be covered don't have such conditions themselves, hence the childish flood insurance analogy that comes up. It's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality

Not true in my case. I have a serious pre-existing condition. We have an amazing health care system, people who say otherwise have no clue what they're talking about, it has saved my life twice already. If we had a single-payer system, based on the urgency of care I needed both times, I wouldn't be alive under this system... unless I was a cat and had nine lives. My biggest fear is the loss in quality of health care this law WILL cause.

But again, I support people's right to choose what's best for them and am totally against this heavy handed coercion of our federal government to force people to pay for things they can't afford, and that is the law now. It has to be repealed, I see Howard Dean is now out against this mandate.......... it's a matter of time before this disaster is repealed. We should all hope anyway.

Quote from: peky on December 29, 2013, 10:04:46 AM
I echo Steph general position that JamieD, as a long standing "anchor" on this forum should not initiate threads -like this one- that are going to lead to nothing but dissent.

Actually, I'd say there were a LOT of respondents that were in full agreement, most in fact it appears. Some dissenters were just very intolerant and noisy, no surprises there........ truth is never easy for some.

Quote from: Nikko on December 30, 2013, 02:22:31 PM
Not true in my case. I have a serious pre-existing condition.

What was that condition?  And did you have health care at the time?  How much were your premiums?  Could you even get insured with that condition?  I was only able to stay on my parent's plan because of the ACA, otherwise I was 'ineligible.'  It cost $600/month for my insurance premiums from when I was 23 to now (which makes me kind of raise an eyebrow at the person who was talking of $400/month at 61 years old being a lot), then I finally got employer healthcare coverage.

QuoteWe have an amazing health care system, people who say otherwise have no clue what they're talking about, it has saved my life twice already. If we had a single-payer system, based on the urgency of care I needed both times, I wouldn't be alive under this system... unless I was a cat and had nine lives. My biggest fear is the loss in quality of health care this law WILL cause.

But again, I support people's right to choose what's best for them and am totally against this heavy handed coercion of our federal government to force people to pay for things they can't afford, and that is the law now. It has to be repealed, I see Howard Dean is now out against this mandate.......... it's a matter of time before this disaster is repealed. We should all hope anyway.

If by amazing, you mean that when somebody is uninsured, they can wait until they are deathly ill and then head to the emergency room and get immediate treatment, then roll the dice on whether or not the hospital will forgive their bill?  What an amazing system to expensively treat problems as they come rather than provide preventive care.

If we have an amazing system, why are we 34th in infant mortality? First in cost per capita by nearly double?  37th overall in healthcare? Why are we this outlier of the civilized world where everybody else can provide healthcare for all of their citizens but not the US? 

The ACA is NOT what I wanted, which was socialized medicine. Yes, there will be a few people who will be dissatisfied, but it's better than what we had before for the population as a whole.  Definitely.

Quote from: Hideyoshi on December 30, 2013, 09:10:17 AM
It's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality

Not really fair.  I am a traditionalist and an individualist "republitarian."  Most would say that I am on the conservative side of the political spectrum, but I hold moderate social values.

I have written about my middle daughter, who has Crohn's.  I have written about how I have helped in raising thousands of dollars for the Crohns & Colitis Foundation of America.  I have also participated in the last two "Take Steps" campaigns.  I freely give my time and money to the cause of finding treatments and cures for the diseases from which you and my daughter suffer.

I'm not sure I would call that a "To hell with everyone else" mentality.

My concern is about the effect of poorly written and incompetently executed law.

QuoteWhat was that condition?  And did you have health care at the time?  How much were your premiums?  Could you even get insured with that condition?

I had surgery to save both my kidneys eight years ago. Since that time, I've been able to get insurance, but not for this particular condition, I have an endorsed policy with this exclusion. I didn't lose my insurance due to this pre-condition, I lost my insurance because I switched jobs and thus switched insurance. One of the republican ideas that have been around for some time now is to de-couple our insurance from our employer so that when you change jobs you don't change insurance.

QuoteIt's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality

I can't tell you how sad and utterly misguided this thinking is. I grew up in a very conservative environment. The compassion and giving spirit was unbelievable and I'll never lose site of it and it's importance to one's spirit and happiness. As an adult, I now live in far more progressive areas and I can tell you there is NO comparison. The reason I'm most against obamacare and other coercive government programs is because they hurt people. I have seen an attitude regarding this topic of 'well, I'll have to wait to see how this law affects ME'. I would be against this law even (especially) if I got it for free at someone else's expense. I don't care how rich or poor the other person happens to be, it's still theft in my view.

I'm a firm believer in helping those who currently find themselves in a position they need help. But greedy people who take advantage of this system (and they're plentiful) are rotten citizens who should be ashamed of themselves. I believe there are a lot of people who are free-loaders who believe otherwise. I agree with one of Dr. Phil's points, if you're unemployed, your full time job is finding a job. You spend as much time looking for work as you would doing work if employed, that means eight hours a day looking for work, and not just on a computer sending out resumes, but pounding the pavement talking to potential employers. My guess is a lot of people don't do this, they feel entitled to living off of others or don't even see it that way.

Real compassion to me is getting as many people as possible self sufficient and living meaningful lives. Huge numbers on assistance is not compassion, it's pathetic.