OK, let's do some basic math here. Of all the women in the world, half of them look more masculine than the other half and the same holds true for men, half look more effeminate than the other half. At the current count there are approx. 06,700,000,000 people in the world, so that means there are approx. 3,350,000,000 women and 1,675,000,000 of them probably have been mistaken for the other sex. Add in the one billion six hundred seventy five million men who will probably be mistaken for a woman sometime in their life and I think you'll find yourself in good company, all three billion three hundred and fifty million of them.

Ok, while the basic math fine, the logic doesn't follow.  Stating that 50% of men are feminine enough to have 'not passed' at some point in their lives and that 50% of women are masculine enough to have 'not passed' at some point in their lives is pure conjecture.  That overlap between masculine and feminine looks could include 10% of each gender or 5% of one and 3% of the other etc etc etc...

Passing is vital to me.  I spent thousands of dollars on FFS not to be beautiful but to be seen as a woman by everyone around me.  The difference between now and then is grand.  I've succeeded quite well as a business woman.  Dunno if I could have made it without FFS.  My gut instinct tells me that I could not have.

You need to take a bell curve model into account for each group.  The amount of women (or men) on the  extreme end will not be the same amount in the middle of the group.  Also, once a woman slips below the 50% mark, it does not automatically mean that she will be read as male.  In fact, I think the threshold  of how masculine a woman needs to look to be seen as a guy is much higher than 50%.

Quote from: Butterfly on July 27, 2007, 05:31:17 PM
I spent thousands of dollars on FFS not to be beautiful but to be seen as a woman by everyone around me. 

Well, Butterfly congratulations.  You have actually succeeded in both.  You are a beautiful woman.

If and when I am able to transition, I want nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with looking the slightest bit male.  Whatever it takes to get that look WILL happen.  I've seen a guy in the mirror for too many years and it makes me ill.  Is that vain?  Of course.  But I think that we have more of a need here because of our insecurities.

Kristi

Jonie.........
The statistics, I agree, need some work.  Nonetheless, it's like comparing my commission sales to someone elses, showing that by comparison, my sales look pretty good.  Well, if I do that, and pretty good is short of paying the bills, it ain't good enough.  For me, passing marginally isn't good enough.  I had a bad day today, and came home feeling lower than low.  Why?  'cause I think I was read.  (That, plus being called by male pronouns twice at work with customers listening).  Not just once, mind you, but twice.  Okay, not bad for mingling with thousands of people.  But what I took home from these experiences, and put in my emotional bank, was....not enough.  Sure wished it was really simple  *sigh*

Beverly
Female, dammit!

Yeah, if I even *think* I was read, it can really put me in a bad mood.  For the most part I really am not read, but I think it happens every so often (unconfirmed).  Of course, I have thought I was read before and then that person said something that told me they definitely hadn't read me.  Sometimes what will happen is I think I'll get read and then later get a compliment or have somebody flirt with me and that will cheer me back up again.  I can't even talk to my parents anymore because they refuse to use my legal name and they make sure to be able to use my old name as often as possible.  *That* really puts me in a bad mood.  I simply need to be seen as female.  Of course the times where the fact that I'm female is emphasized--like during my play rehearsals--put me in SUCH a good mood.

Quote from: Kristi on July 27, 2007, 08:31:17 PM

Quote from: Butterfly on July 27, 2007, 05:31:17 PM
I spent thousands of dollars on FFS not to be beautiful but to be seen as a woman by everyone around me. 

Well, Butterfly congratulations.  You have actually succeeded in both.  You are a beautiful woman.

If and when I am able to transition, I want nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with looking the slightest bit male.  Whatever it takes to get that look WILL happen.  I've seen a guy in the mirror for too many years and it makes me ill.  Is that vain?  Of course.  But I think that we have more of a need here because of our insecurities.

Kristi

Kristi, you're not so bad yourself....both of you look leagues in front of me..

Quote from: Melissa on July 27, 2007, 06:10:09 PM
You need to take a bell curve model into account for each group.  The amount of women (or men) on the  extreme end will not be the same amount in the middle of the group.  Also, once a woman slips below the 50% mark, it does not automatically mean that she will be read as male.  In fact, I think the threshold  of how masculine a woman needs to look to be seen as a guy is much higher than 50%.

You're probably right, what I meant to say was if you divided people into four equil groups, two of the groups would look more androgyne than the other two.  If by definition a transsexual is a person born of one sex who is in the process of changing into the other, finding oneself in the more androgyne looking half should be seen as a natural step in the long road of becoming completely who you want to be. I also was trying to make the people who are being read now feel better because sometimed hormones can work painfully slow.