OK, background for people who don't know my story: I've been living full time happily for six months, but genderwise, I don't get that sense that I'm a woman that a lot of trans women have.

So, I'm finding that I have some emotional need for validation from others - to have them indicate that I'm feminine. Of course they're not going to do that straight out, but I find myself doing things like looking at women's faces when I'm out in public. I know if they smile warmly back at me, they see me as a woman. When I'm in a social situation with people who don't know I'm trans, I try to figure out whether people are gendering me male or female. When I'm to see people for the first time as Suzi who used to know me as a male and know I transitioned, I look for signs that they don't know who I am (and therefore don't realize I'm male-bodied, which would be a giveaway to who I am). When one of these encounters go well, I feel so validated I sort of bask in it for days (or weeks, or months).

I'm not so sure all this is healthy. I'd like to be able to tell MYSELF that I'm a girl and that I'm feminine. I mean, I KNOW I'm feminine, I know I'm even a bit attractive, and I know that, although my brain has a lot of male wiring, my heart is 100% female.

Has anyone else had these feelings? Were you able to get past them (and how)?

I think it is normal for people to want positive reinforcement every once in a while. I need it just like anyone else for that matter. I do not dwell on it if it never appears because I accept myself and try to stay busy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Right Cindy? I had a bad experience last night and Cindy helped me out big time. Thanks sis! Everyone needs to be accepted and know people appreciate them. There is nothing wrong with that. 

   Definitely Yes , and Suzi you are a beautiful woman.

Is it a need to feel feminine or a need to pass?  From what I gathered, you seem to simply desire passing as female.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that.  Who wants to be misgendered or read as male?  In any case, I don't think that's really the same as needing people to tell you that you're feminine.  It's more that you want to be recognized for the gender that you are.  Am I missing something?

I'm not full or part time yet, but I imagine I'll be the same way.  Passing is very important to me and I feel like I need to pass 100% and not just 99.9%.  Hence why I'm always so hard on myself and need everything just so.  In my case, it probably is unhealthy because I push everything back for the perfect time.  For someone like you who is full time and living regardless of it, it's probably not really a problem.

Validation, reassurance, acceptance is a universal human need...

Very much agree with what everyone has said. That little confirmation that you are successful is always such a gratifying feeling. Then again there is no right or wrong way to be female or male

Totally sympathize with walking around and worrying what people are seeing as well.

Well, I'm not full-time, but yeah... I definitely do this a lot too.

When people acknowledge that I'm female, or at least feminine, I go home smiling, feeling great about myself, and I can't stop grinning about it.

And then after a few days of not having anyone gender me female, treating me like a guy still, my self-confidence slowly goes to s*** and I find myself right back to crying mode feeling like I'm never going to make it.

How about going out to a diner, cafe or restaurant with a girl friend or two, then when the waiter comes up and says "what will it be, ladies?" you will know!

You've struck on a couple sticking points for me as well.

Not having the "sense" of being a woman. For me I've come to believe that this will come with the experience of living in an adult female role. It's something that I'll have to grow into from the miserable creature that I was before. That's why I prefer the term "second adolescence" over "second puberty"

Being feminine, BTW is not a requirement, although sadly will make others more likely to accept you as a woman.

As for validation I've learned that I need to work on being able to accept it. Without that my mind immediately tries to find some way to invalidate the validation.

 

  I've always been one to over-analyze how I'm being observed publicly and in social situations but I've really managed to shed most of it as I've become fully accepting of myself.  I try to treat validation of my femininity like a special bonus, as if everyone's good with what they see but when they actually make the effort to say something positive it's a step above the norm.  I get a lot of compliments from people I know even just for my style choices as a guy over the last little bit as I've re-captured my zest for looking my best.  A number of the female staff at my health center have been really impressed with what I wear in girl-mode in a "I wish I had that" or "I wish I could wear that" way.  Everything in my wardrobe is tasteful street-wear with a little punky-flair here and there.

  The best compliment I ever received though was early on at the health center when I had just barely started laser and presenting femme.  I was signing in with the receptionist (also an MTF but probably in her late 40's or early 50's) for my first doctor's appointment.  She felt she needed to ask me if I was an MTF or FTM and she wasn't just trying to be nice.  She works the desk on the LGBT program floor and sees enough transitioners to be well informed but still wasn't sure with me.  She said I looked great and I left there literally glowing!  That helped remove a lot of my self-doubt.

  Reassurance is great but try not to get obsessed with it.  I'm not expecting people to provide it to me and I'm not counting on them to be fair and realistic in their judgements, especially if they know I'm trans.

Quote from: ErinM on January 05, 2014, 10:03:42 PM
As for validation I've learned that I need to work on being able to accept it. Without that my mind immediately tries to find some way to invalidate the validation.

  As a guy when people would compliment me on anything I'd actually feel borderline shame like as if it were some cruel, twisted form of teasing.  I would literally cringe.  Never could quite sort that out.  Now that I'm feeling so much better about myself in general I instinctively accept praise in any form.  I guess all of this centers around self-acceptance or lack thereof.

Quote from: learningtolive on January 05, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Is it a need to feel feminine or a need to pass? 

Well, the two are related, aren't they? If I were a deep-voiced, lumbering, graceless woman, with no fashion sense, I'd have a lot more trouble passing, right?

I think it's the need to feel feminine. I pass as well as I'm going to. But I think if a friend who knew my past remarked on how feminine I am or how much they like my taste in clothing/jewelry/footwear, I think I'd appreciate the compliment just as much. I love it when friends tell me how feminine my voice is. So it's not really about passing.

It's about convincing myself that the world sees me as a woman.

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 05, 2014, 07:17:34 PM
OK, background for people who don't know my story: I've been living full time happily for six months, but genderwise, I don't get that sense that I'm a woman that a lot of trans women have.

So, I'm finding that I have some emotional need for validation from others - to have them indicate that I'm feminine. Of course they're not going to do that straight out, but I find myself doing things like looking at women's faces when I'm out in public. I know if they smile warmly back at me, they see me as a woman. When I'm in a social situation with people who don't know I'm trans, I try to figure out whether people are gendering me male or female. When I'm to see people for the first time as Suzi who used to know me as a male and know I transitioned, I look for signs that they don't know who I am (and therefore don't realize I'm male-bodied, which would be a giveaway to who I am). When one of these encounters go well, I feel so validated I sort of bask in it for days (or weeks, or months).

I'm not so sure all this is healthy. I'd like to be able to tell MYSELF that I'm a girl and that I'm feminine. I mean, I KNOW I'm feminine, I know I'm even a bit attractive, and I know that, although my brain has a lot of male wiring, my heart is 100% female.

Has anyone else had these feelings? Were you able to get past them (and how)?

Maybe it's a culture difference, but usually staring at someone indicates either: you find something interesting/odd about their appearance; your interested in them romantically, or just plain odd/rude. I actually had an older woman smile at me on the train once after i caught her staring at me, i guessed she figured i was transitioning and wanted to show support.

I understand the need for validation. Is there anything you can do yourself that can change how you think?

Suzi,
When I started to go to a hairdresser it was fraught with fears, why put yourself through this. I'd look at the other woman relaxed and stuff and think WTF.

I took a few visits and to find my place in my skin to realise what a hairdressing salon is.

It is a place women go to be treated as women.

I get talked to, pampered, asked if I want a glass of wine, my day, my life is discussed, my love life or lack of it is mulled over. I can do no wrong.

My hair is looked at and discussed, I'm asked opinion and ignored (honey you will look gorgeous but I'm not going to show you) I did give then free rein!!

They take delight with how good every client feels after a trip to the salon.

Why?

(I could get a haircut for $10 as a guy. Don't even ask what Cindy pays!!)

But every single woman feels like a woman at the hair salon.

Because we all want to be treated in a feminine manner.

And next day while we still feel gorgeous our partners will say -You look different, have you got new glasses? 

Quote from: Cindy on January 06, 2014, 05:54:05 AM
(I could get a haircut for $10 as a guy. Don't even ask what Cindy pays!!)

Even as a guy I paid good money for a haircut..

But yeah, don't ask what I pay now.. lol

Hmm, I'm still under the illusion that hair cuts are free, probably because I've never paid for one.

Yes, I need people to tell me that I'm feminine.

It's because I see a hulking guy dressed as a girl when I look at myself in pictures or I see my reflection in a window as I walk past a store. Some days I think "Whats the point of trying to look like a girl? People are just humoring you". Yesterday was such a day when I exchanged something at Victoria's secret - I felt like a ancient gorilla around the pretty young women that were working there, with my beard shadow peeking through the piles of makeup I had on to try to cover it up.

I know that some of this is just in my head and that people don't see the same thing that I see. Not a single person has ever said a hateful thing to me yet; I got called "good looking" by a lesbian friend of mine yesterday. But still......

Having people tell me that I'm feminine really helps me at this point in my transition.

Quote from: Cindy on January 06, 2014, 05:54:05 AM
But every single woman feels like a woman at the hair salon.

Of course I don't have that much hair. MPB has driven me to wigs exclusively in public. But I've heard a lot about how being pampered, getting the spa treatment, etc. makes one feel female. I'll have to say honestly that that's one of the domains of feminine living that I've never had the slightest desire to involve myself in. May be worth looking at further.

Quote from: Bardoux on January 06, 2014, 05:38:43 AMIs there anything you can do yourself that can change how you think?

That's something I've been spending a lot of time thinking about. Haven't really come up with anything.

Quote from: Eva Marie on January 06, 2014, 08:35:09 AM

It's because I see a hulking guy dressed as a girl when I look at myself in pictures or I see my reflection in a window as I walk past a store.

I definitely relate to that, though those feelings are mostly in the past. I actually feel good when I'm looking dead on at myself in the mirror and I'm done up to go out, because I think I'm reasonably attractive for my age. It's when I look at other women that I get the sense that they're real women and I'm just a faker.

Quote from: Ms Grace on January 05, 2014, 09:39:15 PM
How about going out to a diner, cafe or restaurant with a girl friend or two, then when the waiter comes up and says "what will it be, ladies?" you will know!

That happens all the time. I get gendered correctly in public pretty much 100% of the time.

But it throws me. When I hear someone refer to me as "she" I have this moment of disbelief. "Who are they talking about? Oh, me." Don't get me wrong, I love it when I'm gendered correctly, but I still get feeling sometimes that I don't deserve it - that I'm not really a woman, just a man playing a role.

Quote from: ErinM on January 05, 2014, 10:03:42 PM
Being feminine, BTW is not a requirement, although sadly will make others more likely to accept you as a woman.

Though being feminine isn't really the problem. I AM feminine, very much so, to the point that I make my wife uncomfortable because in a lot of ways I'm girlier than she is. But I seem to need others to point out my femininity. Otherwise it's like it doesn't count.