"You're too girly."

"You're too feminine."

"You're too pretty."

"You're dainty."

"You're too short."

"You talk too girly."

"You act too girly."

"You're too whimpy."

"Your hair is too nice." (because guys can't have nice hair)

"You're too clean." (because all guys are filthy)

"You're too sensitive." (because guys don't have feelings)

"You complain too much." (because guys never have b**** fits)

"You don't drink beer." (because all guys are alcoholics)

"You don't like sports." (because all guys are obsessed with football)

"You like too many cute things." (because there's no such things as Bronys. note that I'm not a brony, just pointing it out)

"You're too weird to be a guy." (:/ guys aren't weird?)

"If you were a guy, you'd be so gay." (and that's bad why...?)

"The only way you can be a guy is if you have to have a penis, a real penis, and you will never have one."

"If you want to be a guy, you have to have sex with women, and you can't because you will never have a penis."

"You're just hormonal."

"You're just a confused lesbian."

"You're just crazy."

"You just hate yourself so much you want to be someone else."

"Everyone's gonna hate you if you do this."

"You'll always be alone."

"You would make a hideous man."

"Nobody's gonna want a short fat guy with a tiny penis."

"Wouldn't you be a short, fat, ugly woman than a short, fat, ugly man?" (k, I ain't even fat or ugly...)

"Better not plan on leaving the house, or someones gonna beat you up."

"You don't know what you want, but I do."

"You don't know what you are, but I do."

"You don't know who you are, but I do."

"Let me tell you who and what you should to be, because I know so much better than you."

"Being a man is so much harder than being a woman, you don't have what it takes." (even though my brother is more of a wimp than I am)

"You don't have to become a boy to be yourself."


*facepalm*


Sorry... just some of the crap I've been getting over the past few days from certain family members who have suddenly decided it would be a good idea to point out every single little thing about me that is not manly enough to be a guy.

I know it's nonsense, I am who I am, and they can have their opinion, I can't make them see through their ignorance.  But man... it makes my dysphoria go through the roof, pointing every little thing out like that.  They seem to think its rather funny too.

I don't think I'm going to be discussing it with them anymore.  They make me feel like a walking joke.

Anyway... I just needed to vent.

I'm going to go smash my head into a wall now...

People say these things because they have a problem. They don't understand you being trans and that's how they try to cope. It's easier to pretend something doesn't exist than to actually try to wrap your head around it.

That obviously doesn't mean the things they say can't hurt you, but I find it easier to not internalize these "opinions" if I try and see them as attempts to not cope. These family members will get better with time, hopefully.

Quote from: Proton on January 09, 2014, 08:48:57 PM
People say these things because they have a problem. They don't understand you being trans and that's how they try to cope. It's easier to pretend something doesn't exist than to actually try to wrap your head around it.

That obviously doesn't mean the things they say can't hurt you, but I find it easier to not internalize these "opinions" if I try and see them as attempts to not cope. These family members will get better with time, hopefully.

This is true.  I only came out to them about... three months ago, I think it was.  They seemed supportive enough at first... but I don't think they really took me seriously.  Now that they have realized it's not some phase that's going to just fade away with time, maybe their strategy is to make me feel so bad about it I'll be too ashamed to continue.  At least that's what it feels like.

I am not really the type to get angry, but they have really been pushing my buttons lately, and purposefully too.  They start bringing up things that shouldn't even be an issue, saying things that make no sense.  I try to explain things to them calmly, but I am getting really exhausted, because they don't seem to hear a single word I say.  In the end, I told them all I ask is, if they can't understand it than at least try to be supportive and respectful of my decisions, and be more mindful of the things they say.  Their response was "Life is tough for everybody, why should you get special treatment?"

After the discussion today, they pretty much told me "If you don't want us to give you crap about it, don't bring it up."  I live with these two, and it's not like I bring it up all the time, but I don't make an effort to hide it either.  I want to be able to be myself while in my own home, but they kinda made me feel like I'm supposed to hide all this trans stuff as to not make them uncomfortable.  I know acceptance takes time, but I'm not about to retreat back into the closet because they can't handle it.  So I guess I'm just gonna have to tough it out and hope they come around.  And they can just tough it out too.  I am done pretending to be a girl.

I think the thing that bugs me the most though, is when I try to seriously explain to them that for a lot of people its a life or death thing, and I have come close to the edge at times, they scoff and tell me, "Don't be so dramatic."  This is even more screwed up because my brother has lots of emotional issues, he has talked to me about his feelings of suicide when hes had them, and I have always been there for him to talk and help him out of it.  But apparently, he doesn't remember that, so he can't afford me the same support in return.

I think though, maybe its my fault for expecting so much out of them.  My mother and brother are the two most depressing and apathetic people on the face of the planet.  And they are selfish.  They are so wrapped up in their own problems (problems of their own making, I might add) that they don't seem to think they should have to care about anyone else. 

But anyway... right now, I'm just trying to figure out a way to get my dysphoria to calm down.  It hasn't been this bad in a long time.  I know its just words, but yeah, it stings.  I try not to let it get to me, but it's made me feel self-conscious of and hyper-aware of everything about me that's not considered masculine.  Kinda makes me wanna go hide under a rock and never come out.

WOW!  Gruh.... sorry.... now I'm rambling..... *rolls around*

As long as you know who you are that's all that matters, People are going to talk either way but its up to you to not let it get to you. Unfortunately I'm alot more fortunate in that area, I have a very masculine personality so all my friends see meas one of the guys, So I've really never had thoes things said to me, Know I have been talked about out of lack understanding but, It wasn't that bad, You just have to ignore it...... Know family is alittle different, My moms side doesn't accept me for religious reasons, After awhile I quit talking to my mom and sister.

The whole confused lesbian thing is something that my family definitely think.

The problem is that I never realised I actually liked girls until I accepted I was a man. I mistook jealousy and admiration for fancying guys! I mean, how many girls fancy a guy and want to have the same haircut, or the same clothes, or whatever? I wanted to be like them as men. My fantasizing as a child was legit just being friends with the guys I looked up to. To think I fancied them now is just ridiculous now I realise but back then I was completely ignorant. When I accepted I was a guy, I realised that I didn't want to be in romantic relationships with guys at all. That idea actually repulsed me. But girls, well...hello!  The only problem I personally had, I just couldn't face being with a woman pre-T and pre top surgery. I could have dated if they 100% accepted me as a guy, but intimately, I couldn't face that. This is just how I feel, not how I expect others should or do, but to me, I had to have at least those distinct differences before I could ever even consider a relationship.

It was actually highly insulting when I came out to my family and my parents then said they always suspected I was a lesbian. I absolutely never gave that particular vibe. The entire time I spent in their house (I was young when I left home) I was 100% in the belief that I was a straight girl who was stuck in tomboy phase. I didn't even realise females could be transgender. Again, completely ignorant and largely pre-internet (at least in my home and you didn't search that stuff at a catholic school with monitored computer accounts!) I didn't so much feel personally insulted. I couldn't care less if people call me gay, like you said, what's wrong with that? What's insulting about it? I just felt it insulted trans individuals as well as lesbians. The absolute only reason they suspected I was gay was purely based on appearing to act more like a boy. Is that how they view all lesbians? Is that the defining feature of a lesbian? Their female child never shows interest in girls, in fact seems to show quite the opposite, found high school an insanely difficult experience and yet it was an all girls high school with many open lesbians despite it being a catholic school (it wasn't too strict), and they think I'm a lesbian? If I was a lesbian, wouldn't I be getting in on that action at school? I felt it insulting and I was, quite frankly, repulsed by that statement. It embarrassed me to think my parents could be that ignorant. If anything it made me lose a lot of respect for them.

I said nothing of it at the time but if I do ever talk to them again, I'm going to delve deeper into that question to see if they can start to stitch it together themselves. Ask them exactly what made them think lesbian and see if they themselves start filling in the holes in that theory themselves. Perhaps, in time, you can find a way to get your family to think the same way and guide them on the self realisation path. Find something they say that you find highly contradictory, and see if you can guide them, using that idea, to realise for themselves how crazy a notion it is and how the far more likely reason for then suspecting all they do is easier explained by you being transgender than any of their nonsense ideals.

Quote from: Jack_M on January 09, 2014, 11:52:33 PM
The whole confused lesbian thing is something that my family definitely think.

The problem is that I never realised I actually liked girls until I accepted I was a man. I mistook jealousy and admiration for fancying guys! I mean, how many girls fancy a guy and want to have the same haircut, or the same clothes, or whatever? I wanted to be like them as men. My fantasizing as a child was legit just being friends with the guys I looked up to. To think I fancied them now is just ridiculous now I realise but back then I was completely ignorant. When I accepted I was a guy, I realised that I didn't want to be in romantic relationships with guys at all. That idea actually repulsed me. But girls, well...hello!  The only problem I personally had, I just couldn't face being with a woman pre-T and pre top surgery. I could have dated if they 100% accepted me as a guy, but intimately, I couldn't face that. This is just how I feel, not how I expect others should or do, but to me, I had to have at least those distinct differences before I could ever even consider a relationship.

It was actually highly insulting when I came out to my family and my parents then said they always suspected I was a lesbian. I absolutely never gave that particular vibe. The entire time I spent in their house (I was young when I left home) I was 100% in the belief that I was a straight girl who was stuck in tomboy phase. I didn't even realise females could be transgender. Again, completely ignorant and largely pre-internet (at least in my home and you didn't search that stuff at a catholic school with monitored computer accounts!) I didn't so much feel personally insulted. I couldn't care less if people call me gay, like you said, what's wrong with that? What's insulting about it? I just felt it insulted trans individuals as well as lesbians. The absolute only reason they suspected I was gay was purely based on appearing to act more like a boy. Is that how they view all lesbians? Is that the defining feature of a lesbian? Their female child never shows interest in girls, in fact seems to show quite the opposite, found high school an insanely difficult experience and yet it was an all girls high school with many open lesbians despite it being a catholic school (it wasn't too strict), and they think I'm a lesbian? If I was a lesbian, wouldn't I be getting in on that action at school? I felt it insulting and I was, quite frankly, repulsed by that statement. It embarrassed me to think my parents could be that ignorant. If anything it made me lose a lot of respect for them.

I said nothing of it at the time but if I do ever talk to them again, I'm going to delve deeper into that question to see if they can start to stitch it together themselves. Ask them exactly what made them think lesbian and see if they themselves start filling in the holes in that theory themselves. Perhaps, in time, you can find a way to get your family to think the same way and guide them on the self realisation path. Find something they say that you find highly contradictory, and see if you can guide them, using that idea, to realise for themselves how crazy a notion it is and how the far more likely reason for then suspecting all they do is easier explained by you being transgender than any of their nonsense ideals.

Haha... I relate to the first paragraph so much.  That's one thing that probably surprised me the most after realizing I was transgender.  My sexual orientation has taken a shift.  I have heard of people flip flopping after starting hormones, but I didn't realize it could be an entirely mental thing too.  Before, I always considered myself strictly attracted to guys, albeit... very girly ones. XD  Now I am realizing I am just as attracted to women as men, if not more so.  I think the main reason I wanted to be with men was simply because they had a penis... and since I didn't have one of my own, well, I guess having a boyfriend was the next best thing.  But of course, the down side to that is that I was expected to have penetrative intercourse with him... *shudders*

The lesbian thing doesn't bother me that much.  If they want to call me that, then fine.  What really gets to me is their constant insistence that me being a man is impossible, and my desire to be one is absurd.  What makes it worse is my family really seem to have no desire to try make sense of things they don't understand.  It seems like I've tried to explain things over and over again and its been a wasted effort.  They also have this ridiculous notion that they know me better than I know myself, and make excuses for why I feel this way.  Like I just have no idea what I'm talking about, but apparently, THEY do.  They were trying to convince me today that they knew more about being transgender than I did!  Wat!  "I've studied this stuff."  My brother told me.  "So I know it's just hormonal."  Yeah... okay!  I said, "You know, I've studied this too, obviously!  What, you think I haven't?"  To which my mom replied, "Nope, you haven't."  Okaaayyy...?  So I say, "If you've actually studied it, you'd know it's a medical condition and there's a physical difference in the structure of the brain..."  To which I get, "Yeah, but in your case you're just confused."  Gahhhhhhhh....

Unfortunately, I don't think they really want to understand.  Even if they can't totally get it, it would be nice if they would just be supportive or at least not so negative and hurtful about it.  I guess this is how it often goes though...  But I have to say... I didn't expect this at all from them.  I knew they'd be kind of thrown by it, but I always thought of my family as being pretty open-minded and accepting.  In fact, my mom has often made it a point to talk about equality and acceptance wanting to raise her kids as open-minded as possible.  But when it comes down to acting the part, turns out shes not the saint she paints herself to be.

Quote from: Brandon on January 09, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
As long as you know who you are that's all that matters, People are going to talk either way but its up to you to not let it get to you. Unfortunately I'm alot more fortunate in that area, I have a very masculine personality so all my friends see meas one of the guys, So I've really never had thoes things said to me, Know I have been talked about out of lack understanding but, It wasn't that bad, You just have to ignore it...... Know family is alittle different, My moms side doesn't accept me for religious reasons, After awhile I quit talking to my mom and sister.

Thanks, man.  Strange thing about it though, is I have never been considered a feminine person by anyone... ever, as far as I know.  In fact, my brother used to make fun of me for being "too manly".  My mom used to give me crap for not being feminine enough and trying to give me pointers on how to be more of a "proper lady".  But now, after coming out as trans, all of a sudden it's like I am the most feminine person in the world. 

Now, I know I am not the most masculine person in the world either.  I know I have SOME feminine traits, but so?  Hell, I know naturally born males who have more girly traits than I do!  So I know a lot of what they're saying is not true.  Maybe it's just like Proton said.  They are trying to rationalize it in their head any way that they can to make it untrue, because they can't deal with it.  And calling me a lesbian or telling me I'm stupid or crazy I guess is easier than accepting me as transgender. 

I don't know how to deal with them at this point.  I'm gonna do my best not to let it get to me and just avoid talking to them about it from now on, but I don't even wanna see them or talk to them at all right now after today.  I wish I didn't live with them.  I kinda wish I would have never told them.  My mom seems to think I'm "shoving it down their throats" because I talk about it sometimes.  When I got upset about what they were saying today, she told me I was too sensitive to be a man and then asked me if I was on my period.  Not sure if she was actually asking or if it was some kind of underhanded jab, but it kinda pissed me off.

I think one thing with (accepting) families is an initial acceptance, then denial then acceptance again.

Remember YOU are used to and comfortable with being YOU. They have no clue what it means.

They think; 'this is a fad, my child my sibling will get over it', we know it isn't a fad, it takes a mind shift for them.

Most accepting families know and understand homosexuality, but transgender? Way off the planet!

Families take time to come to acceptance. You had it right, they thought it was some kind of phase (denial), anger comes next, thats what your getting now, finally, eventually comes acceptance. It takes time though and the amount of time is not within your control.

It would be worth while to begin considering alternative living arrangements. Often this is the only practical solution. Better to start thinking about it now than waiting until things become unbearable.

I've heard a lot of the same things, some from people I barely even knew who had heard about me. I one time had a woman I only knew for about an hour come up to me because someone told her I was trans, and she's like "I just need you to know that you don't have to do this. You're such a beautiful girl, it would be so sad, just please, don't do this to yourself, there are other ways, someone as lovely as you could never be a man." I was too shocked to really respond.

Brandon is absolutely right though. As long as you know who you are, that's all that matters.

Wow this is all so me 6 years ago. Apart from the sexuality thing - I did the opposite - I like guys - always have. But I "felt gay" if that makes sense xD so I tried very very hard to be a lesbian and to be attracted to girls because I knew "straight" just wasn't me. Turns out, I'm a gay man, phew, solved that mystery

My oldest sister was very much like this at the beginning, if it's any consolation though she eventually came around and is super supportive and respectful now - even though I can sense she still doesn't fully understand.

She tried to explain to me once that it was like "her sister" was slowly dying. I've seen others on this forum say that some of their relatives have said the same thing. To us it's more like we're finally living for the first time - yet to them it's the other way around, at least at first. I think the emotions can be very similar to those experienced with grieving. All the same stages are there - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance

Quote from: Kaiden Liam on January 09, 2014, 10:14:38 PM"Life is tough for everybody, why should you get special treatment?"

This bugs me. Yes, life's tough, that's why family is supposed to support each other, not contribute to the problem. Hopefully they will get there eventually.

Dunno if this will help, or make sense, but I think of it like this. People form concepts in their heads of each other, and that concept, or "their version" of you, is what they base their expectations of you on (sucks, doesn't it). When someone has their hopes really hung on their concept of another person, and what they think that person's life will be like, and it turns out to be very different from reality, instead of immediately revising their mental construct of "you"/"your future" they may cling harder to their version. Which is a long-winded way of saying, yep, they're in denial.

And it sounds like they're scared. Transphobic violence is unfortunately still a thing that happens, but "you'll get beat up if you leave the house", stated like a 100% certainty, is unrealistic. But they haven't realized that yet and their motivation might be, if they can just convince you that their version of you is reality ("we know you better than you do"), you'll go on to have whatever future they initially envisioned, rather than "life of getting beat up for being trans". Not saying that excuses their behavior, because it doesn't. But it might help to keep in mind, while you wait for them to chill, that maybe they're acting like this because they're panicking. People do stupid stuff when they panic.

I lived my life as a straight female, and while a tomboy, still looked very feminine (long curly hair, earrings, touch of makeup).  I loved men and still do.  I was a person nobody would ever have guessed was trans.  But from very young ages I felt like a boy, wished I was a boy, prayed to wake up and have a penis, stuffed my pants, used the boy's room when no one was looking, etc and we're talking under 10 years old.  After puberty I thought I'd better try to be a girl even though I didn't feel like one.  I was a great actor and pulled it off, but was miserable.

You are a boy.  Just because your exterior shell currently gives off a feminine vibe, that all will change as you transition.  Now people who know my status that I met after transition can't even picture me as anything other than male.  And the transpeople I know I can't even imagine them as anyone other than who they are now.

And there is no law against being a feminine guy.  You might get some ribbing from other guys and family, but be yourself.

Jay

Quote from: Kaiden Liam on January 09, 2014, 10:14:38 PM
This is true.  I only came out to them about... three months ago, I think it was.  They seemed supportive enough at first... but I don't think they really took me seriously.  Now that they have realized it's not some phase that's going to just fade away with time, maybe their strategy is to make me feel so bad about it I'll be too ashamed to continue.  At least that's what it feels like.

I am not really the type to get angry, but they have really been pushing my buttons lately, and purposefully too.  They start bringing up things that shouldn't even be an issue, saying things that make no sense.  I try to explain things to them calmly, but I am getting really exhausted, because they don't seem to hear a single word I say.  In the end, I told them all I ask is, if they can't understand it than at least try to be supportive and respectful of my decisions, and be more mindful of the things they say.  Their response was "Life is tough for everybody, why should you get special treatment?"

After the discussion today, they pretty much told me "If you don't want us to give you crap about it, don't bring it up."  I live with these two, and it's not like I bring it up all the time, but I don't make an effort to hide it either.  I want to be able to be myself while in my own home, but they kinda made me feel like I'm supposed to hide all this trans stuff as to not make them uncomfortable.  I know acceptance takes time, but I'm not about to retreat back into the closet because they can't handle it.  So I guess I'm just gonna have to tough it out and hope they come around.  And they can just tough it out too.  I am done pretending to be a girl.

I think the thing that bugs me the most though, is when I try to seriously explain to them that for a lot of people its a life or death thing, and I have come close to the edge at times, they scoff and tell me, "Don't be so dramatic."  This is even more screwed up because my brother has lots of emotional issues, he has talked to me about his feelings of suicide when hes had them, and I have always been there for him to talk and help him out of it.  But apparently, he doesn't remember that, so he can't afford me the same support in return.

I think though, maybe its my fault for expecting so much out of them.  My mother and brother are the two most depressing and apathetic people on the face of the planet.  And they are selfish.  They are so wrapped up in their own problems (problems of their own making, I might add) that they don't seem to think they should have to care about anyone else. 

But anyway... right now, I'm just trying to figure out a way to get my dysphoria to calm down.  It hasn't been this bad in a long time.  I know its just words, but yeah, it stings.  I try not to let it get to me, but it's made me feel self-conscious of and hyper-aware of everything about me that's not considered masculine.  Kinda makes me wanna go hide under a rock and never come out.

WOW!  Gruh.... sorry.... now I'm rambling..... *rolls around*

sorry you have to go through this, I haven't talked to my siblings in 20 years because of other issues . It does suck when there's no support.

Quote from: Cindy on January 10, 2014, 05:08:07 AM
I think one thing with (accepting) families is an initial acceptance, then denial then acceptance again.

Remember YOU are used to and comfortable with being YOU. They have no clue what it means.

They think; 'this is a fad, my child my sibling will get over it', we know it isn't a fad, it takes a mind shift for them.

Most accepting families know and understand homosexuality, but transgender? Way off the planet!

In fact it isn't uncommon for parents to go thru a grieving process and mourn the loss of their little girl (even if you are 40 and were not ever a little girl in your own mind). They didn't have any clue (in many cases, even if they did). I know this is tough for you, because you have your own stuff to deal with, but they have to transition too.

--Jay

You just have to realize that you should be proud of everything you are and all the aspects of your personality. Dont let anyone's opinions get you down

Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 05:41:57 AM
It would be worth while to begin considering alternative living arrangements. Often this is the only practical solution. Better to start thinking about it now than waiting until things become unbearable.

That's what I'm thinking. And if you have to be around them and they are just constantly throwing all these negative remarks at you, it may be time to get some earplugs/noise cancelling headphones just to show them that you don't have to put up with this emotional onslaught just because you live there. Sure, they may think it's rude, but what they are doing is beyond rude.

Mostly its about your mental well being. Its very common to have doubts about yourself, to question what you want to do and wonder if what you are doing is the right thing for you. These are big questions and important ones, it says your on hormones so the changes they make are permanent. It is at this exact time, you need peace and solitude to decide what is right for you. You cant do that if people are constantly talking you down. Its too much for anyone. It would have been too much for me, Im sure of that. Meanwhile those hormones are powerful stuff and its like a roller coaster.

So find that for yourself. If you dont, things are going to be much harder for you and the emotional damage can become permanent. Like PTSD, I have seen this happen.

These types of comments come from people who only have a black and white head when it comes to gender. These people believe very strongly in either male or female and that's that. When they're presented with someone who says they are male (but clearly in a female body – or vice versa), it's like it just doesn't compute for them. I think cis people are hardwired to just be what they are and spend their whole lives never questioning, completely going along with what society has approved for their gender. For me, getting cozy with this fact and the fact that I can not change what these people think has been invaluable. I have to do my own thing. It's definitely not what everyone else is doing. It definitely doesn't fall into the binary gender world of approval.

It's very frustrating, however, when people close to you (friends or family) say things like this. Or continue to refer to you as your assigned gender, rather than your actual gender. I deal with a partner like that and sometimes it does get the better of me. When someone has known you as one thing for a huge chunk of your life and theirs, it's got to be difficult for them to make a transition along with you. Especially when it comes to parents (who typically have strong emotional attachments to their offspring and are always thinking they're "doing the right thing" for them). I often wonder if, in some cases, the cis brain just will never accept that a brain can be one gender and the body can be another?

Plenty of accepting cis people. Just, some things you have to experience to understand them. Like us.