Quote from: kariann330 on January 10, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
Actually it holds more then water....it holds lead, brass, powder etc.

You missed the point entirely.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on January 10, 2014, 11:48:20 AM

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 09, 2014, 11:43:18 AM
No. I enjoy being around cis-gendered people. I like having trans people in my life, but all-transfeminine spaces are very different than all female spaces (don't know if other people have seen this.) I would miss friendships with cis-women if I didn't have them.

So in other words I'm not really a woman? That's how this is coming off, Suzi. Yes, trans spaces will be different from woman's spaces where the focus isn't being trans, obviously. But you could have 10 cis women and eight trans women in a book club and it would be no different then if the trans women were there or not. This is especially true if all the trans girls are stealth.

I know you're new to being trans Suzi so I guess I can see you saying this but really i found the underlying concept that there is a fundemental difference between myself and a GG highly insulting and makes me feel all fake. I don't like that feeling and if I had to go out into an all women's space today, this would have nuked what little confidence I have. I don't think there is and I dont put much weight into the whole female socialization thing. Not for peeps my age. Girls and boys are raised essnetially the same nowadays. Much to the radfems chagrin. Yes there are def going to be differences of expereince but outside of maybe 10 peeps who I have known on Susan's I have never had the same or even similar experience as another person so I hardly have been socialized correctly as male either. Far from it. Most men usually tell me to go hang out with the girls where I belong. This was pre-HRT. And the only male privilege I had was the privilege to be bamboozled by the Pennsylvania Justice System and put in a male prison for two years from 19-21 where I subquently had to fight off multiple sexual assaults. And even there they kept telling me they would put me on the woman's block if they could. And three female probation  officers tried to get me to confess to being a prositute and put try to put me in a recovery house for prostitutes instead. I should have done it. Male privilege. Not for me.

And in seventh grade in an effort to make myself useful to potential male friends I wrote a poem for this guy for English and then the teacher, Ms. Park, who I loved and was the best teacher I ever had, made him redo the poem and said "Sorry Bob you have to write your own poems there is no way you wrote it. it's far too sweet, emotive and sensitive that only M could have wrote it" Just what every seventh grade boy wants to hear: I'm sweet gentle and sensitive and emotional. This is alll because I am a woman. And becuase of an unfortunate occurence somehwere around six weeks into life the translocation of the SRY made me this.

Okay, I'm rambling, this just really triggered me.

Hey hon, I realize this was triggering but I think you may be reading too much into what Suzi wrote. I've never been in an all-transfeminine space that I know of, but I suspect there is a difference. Just as there would probably be a difference in an all women-of-color space and an all white women space. Or all lesbian vs all straight women space. These women all have vastly different experiences of womanhood as do trans women. So it makes sense there would be a different atmosphere. I expect there's also a vastly different atmosphere between trans male spaces and cis male spaces (actually I know there is; a lot of trans men have a very womanist ideological background that is very foreign to most cis males).

I've been to one all trans feminine event, the ill-fated Pacific Coast Living conference (it was supposed to be annual, but unfortunately there was only ever the one conference). The "feeling" to that was different than, say, the SisterSpirit retreat I went to last year. That was a women's spirituality event, and I was welcomed as one of them.

Now I should stress here that I felt like I was one of Them. That is to say, I did feel a bit like a outsider even as I was completely welcomed regardless of the circumstances of my birth.

What I'm saying is that from my point of view, this one trans feminine space felt different than this one feminine space to me. After all, there are medical issues that I would have in common with the attendees of the PCL conference that I wouldn't share with the attendees of SisterSpirit.

This is by not means a scientific survey. These are simply my experiences and will definitely differ from the experiences of others. For my part, however, being trans is part of my identity and that is an intentional choice I've made.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on January 10, 2014, 11:48:20 AM
So in other words I'm not really a woman? That's how this is coming off, Suzi.

Oh, Joanna, I didn't mean anything like that. I'm so sorry that's how it came across.

All I meant is that the emotional climate in the all-transfeminine spaces I've been in and the climate in the mixed feminine spaces I've been in have been different. I might be way off here - I might be reading a lot into the specifics of each situation. I'm not sure why the climate seemed more supportive and accepting in the mixed feminine spaces. It's certainly not because trans women are any less women or any less feminine.

Please accept my apology. Trans women are every bit women. To say otherwise goes again all I believe in.

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 10, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
Oh, Joanna, I didn't mean anything like that. I'm so sorry that's how it came across.

All I meant is that the emotional climate in the all-transfeminine spaces I've been in and the climate in the mixed feminine spaces I've been in have been different. I might be way off here - I might be reading a lot into the specifics of each situation. I'm not sure why the climate seemed more supportive and accepting in the mixed feminine spaces. It's certainly not because trans women are any less women or any less feminine.

Please accept my apology. Trans women are every bit women. To say otherwise goes again all I believe in.

I understand what you're talking about. When I'm in all trans spaces, the vibe is totally different than when I'm, say, at practice with dozens of other women around of all stripes and more so in a place where it's girls and guys all mixed up, trans and not. Even if there's another trans chick or two, being a girl in normal society is very different than an echo chamber like environment where everyone is dealing with some various stage of trans issues. I think that separating out trans peeps from society kinda misses the point of dealing what what we have to go through entirely.

Quote from: Lana P on January 09, 2014, 12:36:16 PM
Why in hell would anyone want firearms guns are a huge no no hell no. Oh and to respond NO.

Quote from: kariann330 on January 10, 2014, 12:04:53 PM
Simple answer, its best to have them and not need them, then need one and not have one.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on January 10, 2014, 12:18:32 PM
Sorry, but that doesn't hold water. Think of how many people that have dealt suicidal thoughts and then imagine that gun being around "just for protection". It would be all too easy to pop a cap in your skull and it would be done and over with.

No thanks. Besides, I have plenty of other means to protect myself that don't involve firearms.

Quote from: kariann330 on January 10, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
Actually it holds more then water....it holds lead, brass, powder etc.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on January 10, 2014, 01:03:11 PM
You missed the point entirely.

As someone who attempted suicide three times, I thank God I didn't have access to a gun any of the times I tried, but although I didn't succeed, it wasn't for lack of trying. I used drug overdoses and alcohol twice, and tried to hit an artery with a knife and missed on the other. That's why I'm F**king pissed now, Laura, though not at you. Kariann didn't miss the point, she was making a lame joke about suicide, weren't you, Kariann. I know this is a thread about a hypothetical city for us and on the whole, few posters would have moved into your utopia. But do I have to say this? There is nothing remotely funny about suicide, period, but in this, the trans community, I've read that our suicide attempts statistics are up to 20 times higher than the general population. I'm so f**king glad that I couldn't get my hands on a gun when I attempted to kill myself, because I wouldn't be here today to enjoy my life as a woman if I had. I've said this before about my suicide attempts, and I'm sure some of you are sick of hearing it.....but none of my attempts were anything less than me trying my hardest to die. They weren't 'cries for help' because I was positive nobody would give a ->-bleeped-<- if they were, but Kariann, I wasn't the only woman out there who wouldn't be here if I had a gun to end my existence, and I think your insensitivity to it sucks.

Quote from: Miranda Catherine on January 10, 2014, 11:04:46 PM
As someone who attempted suicide three times, I thank God I didn't have access to a gun any of the times I tried, but although I didn't succeed, it wasn't for lack of trying. I used drug overdoses and alcohol twice, and tried to hit an artery with a knife and missed on the other. That's why I'm F**king pissed now, Laura, though not at you. Kariann didn't miss the point, she was making a lame joke about suicide, weren't you, Kariann. I know this is a thread about a hypothetical city for us and on the whole, few posters would have moved into your utopia. But do I have to say this? There is nothing remotely funny about suicide, period, but in this, the trans community, I've read that our suicide attempts statistics are up to 20 times higher than the general population. I'm so f**king glad that I couldn't get my hands on a gun when I attempted to kill myself, because I wouldn't be here today to enjoy my life as a woman if I had. I've said this before about my suicide attempts, and I'm sure some of you are sick of hearing it.....but none of my attempts were anything less than me trying my hardest to die. They weren't 'cries for help' because I was positive nobody would give a ->-bleeped-<- if they were, but Kariann, I wasn't the only woman out there who wouldn't be here if I had a gun to end my existence, and I think your insensitivity to it sucks.

My joke had NOTHING to do with suicide so plz don't get mad at me. I am sorry that it came off that way. My joke was aimed solely at the comment of my "better to have it....." comment "not holding water". I honestly think you took that one at face value instead of the smart a**ed remark it was meant as....same as my usual response to why risk jail time for CCing all the time....I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6, because MY piers are fellow Lifetime NRA members.....nothingmore then a smart a**ed remark. Sorry you got offended again but i don't and won't retract my statement.

Hi friends 

Things are getting a bit too heated here, time for everyone to calm down, take a break and find something more constructive to do

Topic locked

Thank you

V M