Jeatyn,

Just a small comment.  One thing to watch for is "spitting sutures".  I had one of these (and two very small ones).  That is when the body pushes out a stitch.  I am NOT saying this is what you are experiencing.  I didn't have glue, so I don't know how that whole thing goes, including these plastic type stitches you are talking about.  What made me decide to say something was you mentioning the "white cotton thread".  That is what my "spit sutures" looked like.  The result was a small hole that took quite a while to close (a month).  It isn't a bit deal but in the two places where the main ones were the scar widened a bit.  Like Jack said, any of those stitches that come out are not holding you together (so no big deal), but I would just suggest you gently pull them out. 

ETA:  I just found this link:  http://www.laurengreenbergmd.com/body/spitting-a-stitch/  I guess they are all of them are called spitting sutures.  Anyway, I found one post about a guy with top surgery who had this happen.  His incisions widened too.  But, in looking at this article I just posted, it looks like it is not that rare, so maybe it is rare that the "holes" develop like mine did, and most of the time that doesn't happen. 

The article says to clean the area with alcohol or hydrogen peroxide and then put polysporin over it.

"The the top may open with a little discharge (which looks like a small dab of "pus"- most likely just white blood cells and other things) and you will see a little fishing line sticking out.  Usually this happens along your suture line (incision/ scar)."

This sounds exactly like what happened. Glad to know it's normal! She was just so rough with it xD I've just checked and there's still more thread  on the other side, I gave it a pull but son of a b**ch it stings D=

Is it cool to just leave them? Will they just fall out/dissolve? There's an angry painful hole now, I'd rather not end up with those all over my incision line

I expect you'd know if you were rejecting the sutures but it happens. I know this guy who is on youtube and this happened to him. OY poor guy. All the sutures seemed like they came out and his incision got very wide. I think Brett and I might be referring to the same guy, he's a friend of mine.

But you can push out individual sutures and not have the whole thing go. I think it is normal to have sutures come out a little bit, there was something in the post op directions from Dr G about it. But I didn't have this problem.

--Jay

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 10, 2014, 03:39:09 PM
"The the top may open with a little discharge (which looks like a small dab of "pus"- most likely just white blood cells and other things) and you will see a little fishing line sticking out.  Usually this happens along your suture line (incision/ scar)."

This sounds exactly like what happened. Glad to know it's normal! She was just so rough with it xD I've just checked and there's still more thread  on the other side, I gave it a pull but son of a b**ch it stings D=

Is it cool to just leave them? Will they just fall out/dissolve? There's an angry painful hole now, I'd rather not end up with those all over my incision line

If it were me, I would be really gentle with it.  If it was something I could just clip off, I would for certain do that.  I didn't know what mine was at the time.  Like I said, it was this small piece of soft cotton.  I just very gently pulled and it came out.  It was pretty quickly after that I saw the hole.  Then I saw there was another one, but the thread was only slightly popping out.  I put a small bandaid over the spot for a couple days and somehow it flattened out or something.  Hard to explain, but the hole was "sort of" there even though I never pulled any thread out.  There was a small widening in that area, but it never came all the way out and there wasn't a full on hole.  I then found another very small hole that wasn't a big problem.

It sounds like you are describing two different types.  Fishing line hard piece and those cotton pieces.  Or are they from the same hole?  I only had the super soft cotton thread.  Anyway, I personally would not pull a damn thing.  If it were something I needed to clip, I would clip it.  I am not so keen on those nurses!

Jay, the guy I saw on youtube only had the sutures on the sides/under his armpits.  He said something about going to see a nurse to get them pulled out regularly as they came to the surface.  Is that the same person?  I actually didn't think it was youtube?  Maybe it was transbucket?  Maybe even the same guy?  Can you post the video here (are we allowed to do that)?

The one on my nipple was possibly a fishing line type one....thicker than a fishing line though. The ones on my incisions are the cotton type. I had a whole bunch more of them poking out this morning, only on the very edges again, on both side. I gave a very gentle pull and I got a few out no pain or bleeding, and one wouldn't budge, so I trimmed it. There's more plastic stuff poking out of my nipple in the exact same place again, but it's not coming out enough to even attempt to pull on it. The rest of my incision line seems totally fine, maybe I only got stitches on the edges and glue in the middle? I really wish I had been told this stuff

The ones the nurse did are mess -_- one has scabbed over but the other looked like a big pimple this morning and I couldn't help but squeeze the crap out. I'm gonna put a bandaid on it now though to stop the temptation to fiddle with it.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 11, 2014, 07:15:34 AM
The one on my nipple was possibly a fishing line type one....thicker than a fishing line though. The ones on my incisions are the cotton type. I had a whole bunch more of them poking out this morning, only on the very edges again, on both side. I gave a very gentle pull and I got a few out no pain or bleeding, and one wouldn't budge, so I trimmed it. There's more plastic stuff poking out of my nipple in the exact same place again, but it's not coming out enough to even attempt to pull on it. The rest of my incision line seems totally fine, maybe I only got stitches on the edges and glue in the middle? I really wish I had been told this stuff

The ones the nurse did are mess -_- one has scabbed over but the other looked like a big pimple this morning and I couldn't help but squeeze the crap out. I'm gonna put a bandaid on it now though to stop the temptation to fiddle with it.

DO NOT PULL OUT THE ONES ON YOUR NIPPLES.  These are normal to push through, only clip them.  (No, your nipple won't come off - I assume - but you shouldn't be messing with them).

Seriously, though dude, is that where the nurses were pulling them from?   

Quit messing with your incision lines altogether. Are you still wearing a binder from the doc?  If so, keep it on and don't touch the stuff.  I actually put small band aids over two incision line ones (cotton ones) and they never came out then.  Subsequently, I didn't get holes there.  You need to baby your chest until it all gets healed. Don't forget the hydrogen peroxide and then polysporin/Neosporin afterwards like that article said.  That will keep you from infection.  And don't be squeezing ->-bleeped-<- either!

I am guessing you got stitches on the incision line and then they added glue for extra measure.  I can't imagine glue being put on your nipples.

P.S. I bought cheap mustache scissors at the pharmacy to clip the nipple stitches and it worked well.  Just wait until they push out far enough and then clip them.  I had like 8 push through on one nipple and 3-4 on the other.  They pushed out right around the time that your are.  Again, I think this is pretty common.

I told my grandma your story Jack. She was like "you are not leaving the house until you are healed".

Yeah I'll look for the video later. Poor guy. Anyway, I never touched my incision line after I got the tape off. (I mean except to put silicone on it. I never cut the sutures and would not have unless they bothered me. You are going to have more trouble if you don't leave them alone. I think Dr G's advice was to cover stuff up with a band aid and neosporin. I believe part of the neosporin bit is that it is an antibiotic but it also keeps stuff hydrated which is good for healing. And it makes you feel like you are doing something constructive.

Never pull anything out of your nipples-- no ixnay never.

LOL re: Alex the Cat's grandma. Jack needs a spanking. LOL



--Jay

New to the forum, guys, and I'll apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong place. 

After a lifetime of living with "Sir" more frequently than "Ma'am" and scaring thousands of women in public restrooms with what I'll call God's hardware/software mix-up (we have to have a sense of humor, no?), at 50 years old I educated myself and had top surgery 12/12/13 with Dr. Raphael in Plano, TX as well as male contouring to the thighs, flanks and knees.  Thus far, I have nothing but great things to say about him and his entire staff.  To my knowledge, he is the only surgeon thus far NOT using drains for the double incision surgery.  My recovery thus far has been amazing, now at one month tomorrow. 

Regarding this recovery---the nipple grafts are essentially healed and look pretty good.  I even have sensation in both of them, which I'm shocked about (the cold winter has been a "joy" feeling the little critters tightening while they heal --with the shivers).  The incisions I'm covering with Scar-Away, 1.5"x7" silicone sheets, which reduced the incredible swelling of the incision line that started after they removed the initial surgery tape (2 weeks it fell off).  Got them from drugstore.com.  Not cheap, but knocked the building incision bumps to half within 24 hours.

My question to the group:  Have any of you experienced what feels like muscle spasms anywhere in the chest area, post-op?  I've got what feels like sporadic muscle cramps under my arms.  And if you did experience them, perhaps you might share what you did to alleviate them?  I started Lymphatic Massage this week (fantastic, except made me very sore by that night) and am hopeful that with this and some TLC ...... I'll reach the goal of 100% range of motion back, and of course, a wonderful life without those mammary glands I apologized to for never needing.      Any suggestions would be so appreciated. 

Quote from: SaerJoe on January 11, 2014, 12:42:47 PM
New to the forum, guys, and I'll apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong place. 

After a lifetime of living with "Sir" more frequently than "Ma'am" and scaring thousands of women in public restrooms with what I'll call God's hardware/software mix-up (we have to have a sense of humor, no?), at 50 years old I educated myself and had top surgery 12/12/13 with Dr. Raphael in Plano, TX as well as male contouring to the thighs, flanks and knees.  Thus far, I have nothing but great things to say about him and his entire staff.  To my knowledge, he is the only surgeon thus far NOT using drains for the double incision surgery.  My recovery thus far has been amazing, now at one month tomorrow. 

Regarding this recovery---the nipple grafts are essentially healed and look pretty good.  I even have sensation in both of them, which I'm shocked about (the cold winter has been a "joy" feeling the little critters tightening while they heal --with the shivers).  The incisions I'm covering with Scar-Away, 1.5"x7" silicone sheets, which reduced the incredible swelling of the incision line that started after they removed the initial surgery tape (2 weeks it fell off).  Got them from drugstore.com.  Not cheap, but knocked the building incision bumps to half within 24 hours.

My question to the group:  Have any of you experienced what feels like muscle spasms anywhere in the chest area, post-op?  I've got what feels like sporadic muscle cramps under my arms.  And if you did experience them, perhaps you might share what you did to alleviate them?  I started Lymphatic Massage this week (fantastic, except made me very sore by that night) and am hopeful that with this and some TLC ...... I'll reach the goal of 100% range of motion back, and of course, a wonderful life without those mammary glands I apologized to for never needing.      Any suggestions would be so appreciated.

Hi, SaerJoe, welcome to both the thread and the site!

Nope you are in the right place!

I have not experienced the muscle spasms you mention.  I had shocks of pain every once in awhile at the incision line, but no muscle pain.  I am wondering why it would be happening under your arms?  I would call your surgeon to ask about it, as I have never heard of this before.  Massage can be good, but it sounds like you need to be careful with it!

Thank you for taking the time to give us a run down on your surgery history and recovery.  That is neat that you have nipple sensation.  Were these free nipple grafts (meaning, did he remove them completely off your body, trim and then sew on), or did he keep the nerves attached during the surgery?

I started with the Scar Away strips, but it seems like the surrounding skin is allergic to them, getting very red and dry.  I am using the Scar Away gel. 

In terms of no drains, I do know there is a little known surgeon in CA that does that.  His name begins with a V, but that is all I remember.  I think there are other surgeons, as well.

Thanks for coming to the thread, any way I can talk you into posting a picture?  You can modify your post and place it there. 

Let us know what your surgeon says!

The other side of the pond in the UK there's Andrew Yelland who doesn't use drains either.

@Brett:  it was my own nipples cut, trimmed and free-grafted back on.  The only real numbness I have is a small area between the left nipple and incision, and the incision itself is a little numb.  I did get a texted answer back from their nurse that what might be going on is that the nerves are reawakening.  Makes sense.  The sporadic and brief intense nature of it feels like muscle, but who knows!  It does seem to me that the incisions are quite long, at 7.5" and 8" each.  I was a 36A prior.  But any old way, I'm keeping the faith on the healing aspect, and as a small business owner, I was a bad boy and went back to the office at one week (the owner needs to show up at the annual Christmas party) and was driving after 10 days.  I'm taking it as easy as a type A can : ). I'm dedicated to healing this body I respect, and will be sooooo ready to get back to the weights and building muscle again....  I'm not sure how I will handle not riding a motorcycle this Spring, but will refrain if proper healing requires.  : (. I will post a picture if I can figure out how to do so from this iPad.  Cheers to you!

Ok here's the video of the guy who's body rejected the sutures. I don't think he has actually stopped but it has slowed down. Jay

I'm getting a little worried now =/

Yes the nurse did pull a pretty long one out of my nipple, and two from the incision line. The hole she created has healed up just fine now since I cleaned it up and put a bandaid on. I have developed another hole now though along the incision line which was leaking milky stuff and a bit of blood - not like full on puss and bleeding - but still, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be leaking D= I can't see any sutures anywhere near it...it's just a random hole. I'll call them up about it tomorrow. Might ask for some antibiotics just in case. The guys chest in the video looks really sore =/ poor guy

Recovery has been going great so far and now suddenly I'm unraveling 

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 12, 2014, 10:16:52 AM
I'm getting a little worried now =/

Yes the nurse did pull a pretty long one out of my nipple, and two from the incision line. The hole she created has healed up just fine now since I cleaned it up and put a bandaid on. I have developed another hole now though along the incision line which was leaking milky stuff and a bit of blood - not like full on puss and bleeding - but still, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be leaking D= I can't see any sutures anywhere near it...it's just a random hole. I'll call them up about it tomorrow. Might ask for some antibiotics just in case. The guys chest in the video looks really sore =/ poor guy

Recovery has been going great so far and now suddenly I'm unraveling 

I'm sorry if I put you in a panic!  I am sure everything is fine, and really, I don't think you can do much about the soft thread coming out of the incisions.  Just don't pull anything from the incision line (or at least the soft thread, I don't know what to do if you get fishing line there...I would just clip it).  My guess is the hole appeared because a soft thread from that spot came out at some point.  You really can't do anything about that.  I have a divot on one spot that I didn't see anything come out of, so that is my assumption.  Different from the hole, but still something happened there.  The time I saw another soft thread want to pull out I just put a band aid over it.  It never came out and eventually just kind of dissolved or something (I dunno, I just know it went away).

Like I said, the main thing is to just clip the stitches from the nipples.  The holes you get along your incision line (from the soft thread coming out), will fill in.  It just takes time.  I called Garramone about it (because I hadn't learned anything about spitting sutures yet), and as expected, he said there was nothing I could do.

I would suggest if you are not being careful with how you are moving your arms around and stuff, to change that.  Try to do less.  Lift your arms less.  I know you have a child, so it may be hard, but try to keep your arms closer to your body as you do things and try to reach less.

The guy in the video was not the one I saw a picture of on transbucket.  Thanks for posting this one, Jay!

Despite the fact that Riley says this is fairly common, I haven't heard of such an extreme case as his before. He also posted on FB what it looked like when his body rejected the sutures and it looked pretty bad too. I think you'll be ok, Jeatyn. But even in Riley's case, he is might have a worse scar but he still will stop doing this at some point.

BTW, for scars, I read the most thick impenetrable medical studies I could manage and the thing is that while there are other things out there for scars, pretty much silicone is the only thing that really works more than a little, such as Mederma. I don't know that Bio-oil etc works at all. So the thing is to find something with silicone that actually stays on and you tolerate. The silicone strips curled up at the ends for me, and I HATE the smell of ScarGuard, have no idea why no one talks about the smell. I am using something else now. It is pricey but the silicone seems to stay on and it has a nice smell. The thing is one individual is one individual, someone like A Lions' Fears on youtube, he was very small to begin with, so how he heals (or any one person) doesn't tell you much.)


--Jay

From what I've read of bio oil it doesn't work unless it's the only way you're doing anything as it provides moisture. You'd probably be just as well with Vaseline really.

Scarguard smells like nail varnish. But the smell is 100% gone once you screw the top on and in under 1 minute once it's dried. I tried that and one other but with scar guard I find I'm having to actually peel the stuff away for another application. It doesn't rub off me so I like that aspect, knowing it's there, doing its thing and not splitting or rubbing away. I think silicone sheets would stick best but more designed for straight scars. With curved scars you'd have to cut them up and overlap. I'd imagine it a hassle.

Jeatyn: Don't over worry about the stitches. I've pulled out a couple so far. It's not dangerous, just watch the nipple. You're waaaaaaay more healed than me. You don't need them, it's just that they can take several months to dissolve entirely but lose strength and break off in places. That's what pokes through. You can clip them if you like but you'll be forever clipping them as once it starts poking out, it's likely to keep poking out and pushing through until they're dissolved. Either clip and cover, or just grab tweezers and see if it'll gently pull away. If it resists, then obviously leave it. Simples! Lol. Either works. It doesn't matter if it's along the scar either. No idea why folk think this area isn't to be touched. Whatever has poked it out has just happened to occur on that line. The only thing you should watch in that case is not using silicone products on broken skin. And for that reason you're better to try pulling it away as that tiny hole would heal in no time and you can keep using scar reducing products sooner.

If you don't believe me, then a simple GP appointment will solve all your problems. Go there and they'll try seeing if it comes free safely or clip and cover themselves for you, so you don't have to ummm and ahhhh.

I certainly haven't been overdoing it, I've barely lifted a finger this whole time, even with the kiddo, my partner has been taking care of everything like a hero ^_^

As for scar care I just have E45 cream, I have no spare money at all and the silicone stuff aint cheap

I'm going with the rule of thumb that if it comes out with the bare minimum of pulling then it's fine, if not, clip.

It wasn't so important, but when I had dissolveable stitches in my hand from a very, very minor operation, both me and my school nurse looked at them and didn't think they'd be dissolveable (looked too thick, like the very strong thread used for sewing leather), so we decided to snip them and pull them out. Turned out one or two of them had started to dissolve. I can't remember how long they'd been in there, probably about two weeks, so it does go to show that things take a while to begin dissolving.

I used bio oil on that to keep it supple, and the scar is white now, but I think it would have been anyway, even the worst of my other scars elsewhere are white now. I was given the bio oil by someone who'd had an operation to fix her shattered shoulder.

Someone did mention somewhere about using 100% silicone lube or something on the scars as a cheaper method of scar reduction, maybe that would work for people on a low budget? He did mention to make sure it didn't have any nasty ingredients added though.

Quote from: lxndr on January 12, 2014, 05:32:57 PM
Someone did mention somewhere about using 100% silicone lube or something on the scars as a cheaper method of scar reduction, maybe that would work for people on a low budget? He did mention to make sure it didn't have any nasty ingredients added though.

o rly? Interesting, I can get an unlimited supply of free silicone lube from student services at uni heh. I would imagine you'd have to put it on constantly though, even the purpose made gel stuff needs to be applied several times a day doesn't it?