Quote from: JS on January 15, 2014, 06:57:15 PM

But doesn't that beg the question of why someone who doesn't feel female would want go ahead with GRS -- what would be their motivation?

Ever heard of the male-identified porn star who had a penile inversion done?

He's a bit of an extreme example, but that's basically what I was saying, is that what's between your legs doesn't define who you are. Having a vaginoplasty doesn't magically make you a woman.

I think I'm starting to like the term GRS "gender-reaffirming surgery," over SRS, "sex reassignment surgery." It's something that you do if you feel that it's necessary to satisfy your sense of selfhood.



(edited, since someone mentioned that a certain term wasn't appropriate for this site.)

Quote from: Carrie Liz on January 15, 2014, 07:05:53 PM
Ever heard of the mangina man?

He's a bit of an extreme example, but that's basically what I was saying, is that what's between your legs doesn't define who you are. Having a vaginoplasty doesn't magically make you a woman.

But it seems that Mangina man never had the intention of using surgery to become a woman, so I feel that it doesn't really fit the context of this exchange.

Sorry... I'm just on a rush of "accept yourself for who you are" right now. I was admittedly one of the ones who was feeling super-dysphoric because I was looking at surgery as this magical future thing that would be the end-all, the end goal. And now that I've moved past that 2-month panicky super-dysphoric bout, realizing that it was just a matter of self-acceptance all along, I wanted to be a soapbox preacher and proclaim it to the world.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on January 15, 2014, 07:15:08 PM
Sorry... I'm just on a rush of "accept yourself for who you are" right now.

And rightly so!

Just be happy. Its generally better to wait at least 3 years before doing any surgery (after starting HRT). But it is personal.

Quote from: JS on January 15, 2014, 07:14:08 PM
But it seems that Mangina man never had the intention of using surgery to become a woman, so I feel that it doesn't really fit the context of this exchange.

Agreed, and it was on another post where a moderator chimed in stating that term is inappropriate for this site. Though I know no harm was intended by it's mention, I just remember how the other thread turned out.

As far as surgeries as I have stated before, I plan to give the hormones at the least 2 years maybe more to do their thing before considering any surgery with one exception, SRS, or GRS, whichever term you prefer, only because I feel I'll need it to bring my body in line with my gender, and for my own well being. However the choice to have any surgery lies within the individual and her needs. I'm repulsed by what's down below now for I know it's wrong for me and my well being. However other MTF individuals may feel different about it and that's their choice which I respect. As many others and even I have said and agree with, genitals doesn't make the woman, what's in her mind, feelings, heart, and soul does.

For GRS I dont think you would get any doctor to do it in les than one full year on HRT anyway. But the hormones take time to work, thats why its better to let them work and then decide how you feel.

Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 07:57:57 PM
For GRS I dont think you would get any doctor to do it in les than one full year on HRT anyway. But the hormones take time to work, thats why its better to let them work and then decide how you feel.

Oh I know the hormones won't make me feel any less female. Even on the short time I've been on them I feel better than I ever have. My point I suppose was that I won't consider surgery until I've given the hormones ample time to do their thing which is 2 years maybe even more, but, that I know I'll eventually need the one, SRS for my own well being.

Quote from: Allyda on January 15, 2014, 08:19:01 PM
Oh I know the hormones won't make me feel any less female. Even on the short time I've been on them I feel better than I ever have. My point I suppose was that I won't consider surgery until I've given the hormones ample time to do their thing which is 2 years maybe even more, but, that I know I'll eventually need the one, SRS for my own well being.

feel the same way

Quote from: stephaniec on January 15, 2014, 08:23:29 PM
feel the same way

Seems we feel the same way on alot of thing Steph, lol!

Quote from: Allyda on January 15, 2014, 08:25:07 PM
Seems we feel the same way on alot of thing Steph, lol!

yea, its kind of interesting and good to have

Quote from: stephaniec on January 15, 2014, 08:32:54 PM
yea, its kind of interesting and good to have

Agreed, I see your also a veteran, so am I USAF 9 years before my accident ended my career as a pilot in 1991.

Quote from: Allyda on January 15, 2014, 08:34:54 PM
Agreed, I see your also a veteran, so am I USAF 9 years before my accident ended my career as a pilot in 1991.

Yea, I go back a bit farther in time, Viet nam era

Quote from: Allyda on January 15, 2014, 08:19:01 PM
Oh I know the hormones won't make me feel any less female. Even on the short time I've been on them I feel better than I ever have. My point I suppose was that I won't consider surgery until I've given the hormones ample time to do their thing which is 2 years maybe even more, but, that I know I'll eventually need the one, SRS for my own well being.

Funny thing, pre-HRT, I was positive I wanted SRS.. Up to about the 6-month mark on HRT, I still wanted it.. Then the burning desire for it simply faded away..

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 15, 2014, 09:16:56 PM
Funny thing, pre-HRT, I was positive I wanted SRS.. Up to about the 6-month mark on HRT, I still wanted it.. Then the burning desire for it simply faded away..

I think the thing is that the estrogen is what's missing the operation just changes the shape. It's all the same nerves and skin. It's just a personal thing of what's going to give you the life you want with out this damn pain. With the estrogen taking over I feel so much better and my body is conforming more to my mind. I'll feel great beyond belief if my face changes enough to see the female look back at me in the mirror. I see her now slightly and its incredible. I've live in this world as the wrong sex way too long And I happy it's finally me . I'd like to have the operation ,but will see what happens.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 15, 2014, 09:33:01 PM
I think the thing is that the estrogen is what's missing the operation just changes the shape. It's all the same nerves and skin. It's just a personal thing of what's going to give you the life you want with out this damn pain. With the estrogen taking over I feel so much better and my body is conforming more to my mind. I'll feel great beyond belief if my face changes enough to see the female look back at me in the mirror. I see her now slightly and its incredible. I've live in this world as the wrong sex way too long And I happy it's finally me . I'd like to have the operation ,but will see what happens.

Again, great minds think alike Steph. I'm very confident my mind will never change about eventually needing SRS, I've lived in misery just too long giving up the best years of my life pretending I'm something I'm not. I can't wait til I'm further along and start seeing the female I've always been staring back at me in the mirror. That feeling will be so wonderful I doubt I'll have words for it!

Quote from: Chaos on December 20, 2013, 09:33:19 PM
this question is set in stone by society.following a common path that everyone 'must' abide by,in order to remain within its acceptance but couldn't another ask such thinkers 'do you feel human? Or do you 'know' you are human?' The physical form has been the center of society's attention,accepting what fits an 'image' while the rest is cast to the side but doesn't being 'human' have many parts? Do are fingers help to grasp and hold tightly? And our toes give us balance and stability but what of the heart and mind? Do they not lead us,allow us to see and feel but also to build character? Find for yourself,your own path but may it be honest and not one carved by the masses.

this is well said

Quote from: LizMarie on December 27, 2013, 07:27:31 PM
On the social side, it's how we perceive ourselves and how we choose to present ourselves.

On the biological side of the question, in how we perceive ourselves, most of this is in our heads, quite literally, but there are no easy or cheap tests for it, short of a post-mortem on the brain.

What is known about most MTFs is that they have brain structure differences from other males. The differences in brain structure almost always closely resemble the structures in females.

Back in the dark ages of gender identity diagnosis, a doctor at Johns Hopkins (whose name escapes me at the moment) stated that we are born as blank slates and we learn our gender roles so all that matters is how you raise a child. This was put to the test in the infamous "John/Joan" case, where a male with a badly botched circumcision was surgically altered to be a girl and raised as a girl. This, of course failed, and by the age of 14 the child was prepared to commit suicide. Attempts were made to help the child and later as an adult, but as I recall the individual in question ultimately took his own life in his 30s.

Dr. Milton Diamond never believed this theory so he eventually followed up on the "John/Joan" case and discovered that it did not work out the way the theory said it should. And, it turns out, it didn't work out in many other cases as well. Further, Dr. Diamond has stated (in interviews) that scientists have subsequently forced transsexual behavior on animal species by raising the testosterone levels on female fetuses in the womb (and vice versa on male fetuses). In every case, despite being biologically of one sex, these animals would adopt the behaviors of the other sex.

This has led to extensive studies that show that transgender people, going both ways, MTF and FTM, have significant brain structure differences from others of the same biological sex. Since our sense of self is within the brain, we quite literally have female brains in male bodies or male brains in female bodies.

Some of the recent hormonal research is summarized here, in this presentation to the AMA in 2011. It's a long viewing, over an hour, but I highly recommend it.

Here is one image of just one brain region that is different in MTFs.



The image above is the central nucleus of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), in the thalamus. Note that heterosexual and homosexual males have nearly identical brain structures in that region. Note that biological females have very different structures in that region from those of the males. And finally note that MTF transsexuals have brain structures that are very close to the female's and nothing at all like the biological male's neurological structures.

So no, you are not just "gay".   And yes, being transsexual is a real medical condition for which there is treatment that works for those who suffer most. That treatment is HRT and transitioning to live in the gender with which you identify.

Reference from my blog: Biological differences in MTFs and cisgender males

the farther along  I get with HRT the more valid this argument becomes for me

As many people are saying here, I don't think having a vaginoplasty makes you any more or less of a woman. I've seen ladies who got a sex change who still looked like men. I've seen MANY transgirls who don't have SRS & a few don't even want SRS but if you saw them, they are complete & 100% women. Ever heard of Sarina Valentina? She's a TS porn star. She doesn't plan to have a sex change but I can bet you that if anyone saw her on the street they wouldn't deny that she is a woman & a very pretty one at that. I'm pretty sure that even if someone saw that she had a penis they wouldn't deny that she's a girl. I don't think a girl needs a vagina to be a girl & although I want one, not all TS do & I'm completely okay with that

I agree with Hanazono. In my oppinion I will never feel like a complete woman until I have had  SRS. But with or with out it I am still a woman. And proud to be female! One of my fave sayings is " that thing between my legs does not define me!"