You ever get the feelin like if you was a bio guy people would think twice about disrespecting you?

No. Respect is earned. Gender has nothing to do with it.

No. I feel like people still look at me as a female. Men get more respect than women do anyday. It has everything to do with gender. Women didn't always have equal rights as men. And even now they aren't looked at as being equal. Point blank.

I am a bio guy and the majority of the time respect is not immediately given. It isn't that you have to do something to earn it, but just be yourself and be what means to be a decent person to you and it will resonate with some guys and not in others. Most men are a lot more cautious than the like to wear on their sleeve.

Females,  or those perceived as females do get more outright sexism. I can agree with you there. But a person also has to demand respect for themselves and earn it. I lost a lot of respect when I transitioned, because people see me as a cis man (mostly) who doesn't stand up for himself. As female I got more respect because I hadn't had my self image beaten down. I stood my ground.

I do agree with the demanding respect part. I stand my ground and speak my mind just as a cis guy would. My confidence has gone up while on T and Im a very assertive type of guy. I want to be stealth and I feel like I also need to prove to family and friends that I am male. And it's working for me. But I still get those individuals that try me no matter what I do and I can't help but think it's because of my birth gender.

Rather respect is earned or rather respect is something that is freely given to ourselves and others has been in my thoughts for years as I have helped been a part of three families and taught school for over a period of 34 years.    I have concluded that respect is something that should be freely given to ourselves and everyone we come into contact with.   

If someone does us wrong deliberately than this person can lose our respect and then needs to work to re-earn that respect and trust.   Respect is different in my mind from trust.   We can respect others and not trust them.   I think that trust is something that is earned and we should not trust others unless they earn our trust. 

But if everyone respected every other persons right to exist and their right to have a place and space and civil rights this world would be a better place to live in.   This is why I feel that every living thing and non living thing has the right to be respected.    And above all else we must freely respect ourselves.   

But trust is earned because when we place our trust in people we are placing our very existence in their hands.   Respect is how we treat ourselves and others, including strangers.   However it is easy to observe that when someone does not respect themselves, the world around them, and other living things, it is a sure sign that there is a higher probability that they will not respect us, and a sure sign that we may place ourselves in danger if we trust them.

Respect reflects how we take care of ourselves, our world, and how we treat others.   Respect allows us to see others clearly and helps us make judgements.   When we observe someone who is disrespectful of themselves or others of us then they are best kept at arms length, emotionally we should write them off, and never trust them even when in our daily lives we have to deal with them.

Family members are a part of our lives, no matter what,  its hard to deal,  but if respect were freely given within families with all of the differences everyone would surely be easier to live with.  However respecting other family members doesn't mean we have to trust them or even like them even if we still love them.   

Nothing is simple,  but respecting yourself, does mean that you don't have to let others take advantage of you, it means that you look out after yourself, because if you can't take care of yourself, its very difficult to take care of others.

This is just what I think. 

There is a good book called, "My Gender Workbook" that defines the power identity gender triangle. The book is a workbook and not an easy read. There is male and female privilege as well as race and physical traits. When you change you position on the triangle you need to realize the attributes that are freely given of opposite genders. There is a code.

My boss sent me an Amy Cutty Ted talk to help me act more "male" at meetings and events. Funny, I do not act who I am but I exhibit natural female traits and am treated with female privilege at male meetings. However, I do get things done. I work relationships and do things in private. I am able to get substantial funding for projects.  I use team work and conscious and I enjoy my team meetings, projects and work and my teams express accordingly.

Effectiveness can be achieved with either privilege but I use female privilege.

Oh, to answer your question, no. If you put privilege in place of respect then I would say yes.   

Respect comes from the actions you've chosen over time for those your around. Be it positive, negative, or the right purpose. If your helping other people then they will respect you for being helpful. If your bossing/demanding constantly then people will avoid you. If you promise something and always follow up then people will know your reliable. If you know everything and tell everyone on how to do it right all the time, then your the know it all. If you stick to your beliefs and morals then your honest. I think you get the idea 


It cannot be demanded, only earned from your own actions. Present yourself as knowledgeable, reliable, honest, and not a know it all. This is what I have learned growing up.

There has been some great advice.  So I'll answer in a very different way which may not be pertinent in this case, but still applies to learning to be more like cis guys.  I can see how it would be difficult to navigate guy-guy relationships at first for a ftm.  Guys give each other crap all the time...especially if they're friends.  It's part of the whole alpha male establishing dominance thing.  And I can see how it would be totally misinterpreted as disrespect to someone who grew up female.  But it's actually a sign of acceptance.

This is perhaps the biggest lesson learned by boys in Jr High School.  It sucks.  And my son is learning these lessons now.

I'll get sarcastic with women and give them some good-natured ribbing, but I'm very aware that there is a line that you don't cross unless you want tears and hurt feelings.  But when I'm among guys, that line is almost nonexistent.  Name-calling, insulting their manhood, etc.  It's all fair game, but it still is fairly nuanced.  Also, you have to be able to take it as well as give it.  And often those who can't take it will be picked on.

Honestly, this is one of the things I'll miss most after transitioning.  I've never really felt like I was part of the group, but it's really funny sometimes.  And it mostly happens when women aren't around.

As for guys giving each other crap I agree with. And tbh I like it lol. It is a form of acceptance. But when you've been deliberately disrespected I believe that's a little different no matter what gender it comes from. Learning to transition socially is very important for myself and with having a son on the way I want to be able to teach him as well. All the advice here is very helpful thanks to all.

I don't feel disrespected by anyone. I don't think I'd be more respected if I were a cismale. I don't go around trying to get some kind of confrontation. My understanding is that some males in our society are interested in physical confrontations. I am not. I'd walk away from anything like that.

But a bit of "talking trash" is kind of typical of some male to male interactions. You can chose to play or you can laugh it off or whatever. Don't overreact to it.


BTW, passing does seem to help with this. I hate the idea of it, but once you pass people just kind of forget I'm trans. Even though they might know I am trans (I am very "out"). They might cognitively know I am trans, they forget that I am.


--Jay

I talk trash with guys all the time no big deal. But what I meant by disrespect is people taking you for a joke and not taking you seriously. Being totally disrespected is different than regular guy trash talking. To me trash talking with guys is harmless, I dish it out but I can also receive it. I also believe that there are different ways to getting people to respect you as a man. You have to earn respect. How you carry yourself as a man. Your mannerisms. You have to always stand your ground and when you say NO you mean it. I guess what I meant in the original post was that people sometimes don't take my transition seriously as a man or respect me as a man. But as my birth gender. I believe that people should respect each other simply because we're human beings not because of your gender.

For the people that know about my transition they still approach me as my birth gender.  How do I get them to stop? Even after talking with them.

Quote from: Ethedon on January 20, 2014, 05:42:03 PM
For the people that know about my transition they still approach me as my birth gender.  How do I get them to stop? Even after talking with them.

I have had this happen, and honestly, I cut them out of my life. If they are important I did have the talk, but if they still were disrespectful, I just cut ties. Not so much as a word most of the time, I just ignored their texts and never made an effort to contact them either. I learned with my family that if I didn't insist on the right name or pronouns they'd never use them, ever, lol. I didn't cut out my family like I did with friends, but I did tell family members that I wasn't comfortable coming to family gatherings if I wasn't going to be referred to with the right name and pronouns. And to their credit, they changed.

Quote from: katiej on January 20, 2014, 10:52:16 AM
Guys give each other crap all the time...especially if they're friends.  It's part of the whole alpha male establishing dominance thing.  And I can see how it would be totally misinterpreted as disrespect to someone who grew up female

I'll get sarcastic with women and give them some good-natured ribbing, but I'm very aware that there is a line that you don't cross unless you want tears and hurt feelings. 

So true. As a young adult, I was mostly male socialized and didn't have a clue how to behave around women. Mostly I was very cautious, and that worked because I never got into hot water. But when I forgot to be cautious and treated a woman the way I treated one of the guys...WHOOSH...drama, anger, hurt feelings. And the way they looked at me. Not fun.

I'm glad I didn't do that very often.