Lauren,

Dear, you're far to hard on yourself. Slow down a little, take a deep breath and let yourself feel good about you. I doubt you can "make" yourself have gender dysphoria. You may have it and are simply not sure how to handle it or cope with it. You're thinking about seeing a therapist? Please do so. They will help you to cope with this issue. Unless you have some other underlying mental issue, you're as real as any of the rest of us, I've no doubt.

Dawn 

Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 23, 2009, 04:58:49 PM
Jessica, thanks as well - I've been experimenting these last couple of days with just being around the house while dressed - luckily I work from home (software developer, my own website) so I can do that. It's nice! I have to say, the thing I'm noticing is that I feel really sad when I have to take this stuff off. It's not that I feel myself changing into a different persona or anything so radical, but just that I actually really think I enjoy wearing women's clothing, it makes me feel good about myself, more who I'd like to be. Currently getting used to wearing high heels (I know, I know, most women don't wear high heels all the time, but I am just working through my clothing stereotypes here). I love your pic too, by the way - you look beautiful.

You're very welcome, and thanks for the compliment.  By all means, get through all the stereotypes and whatever.  Everyone has to, except most cis girls do it as teenagers-- how many girls did you know in high school that spent an hour on their hair every morning, or doing their makeup or whatever?  We have to try those things that help us express ourselves, and eventually we'll sift through them, some will stick and some won't (blue eye shadow is one of my won'ts. lol) 

The thing with heels: you have to have a couple pairs for going out, at least in the evenings, and you have to be able to walk in them, they have to be broken in, etc etc.  Wearing them around the house is a great idea.  Also, some shoe stores sell things like gel pads to put in the shoe that helps cushion your foot.  It helps when you're on your feet and all your weight is up on your toes.  Of course they're a stereotype and you aren't going to wear them everywhere but you do need to be able to pull it off when you have to.   

Sorry, I just get into mini depressive moods.  I haven't doubted myself like that in a while.  After the nap I just had, I feel better.  You probably just are very eager to express some sort of femininity and so you want to express that through attire.  You are testing your grounds.  It is ok to do this.  Since you were denied this and other things, it is only natural to want to let it all out.  I just feel all guilty because I feel the degree of my dysphoria is smaller than most other trans people and therefore, it feels unreal compared to theirs.

I am just tired of being stuck in the back and forth stage.  I wish I could just make the choice and that is that but everytime I think I have finally figured things out, the doubts come back.  I guess I am better about than I used to be though. 

I think the reason I have doubts is because I don't really do anything about my issue and I think that because I don't don't do anything then that must mean I am not serious enough and that I am ok with being a man.  If I am ok with being a man, then what is my deal?  I know my issues are real because if they weren't then I wouldn't be here or think about it at all

I also have Cerebral Palsy.  So in a sense I am used to be disadvantaged in some way.  So I probably just force myself to accept my manhood, just like hwo I have to accept I have a disability.  I guess I am used to sticking things out.  Early on in my life I was taught that i would have extra challenges and whatnot. 
I used to feel a lot worse.  I felt that I could not do this to my family.  Since they already had to deal with a disabled person, they shouldn't have to deal with this "girl" stuff either.  Sometimes I feel like a failure for being born both handicapped and TS.  I used to have it in my head that since I am disabled, that it was impossible for me to be TG too. 

Sometimes I fantasize about getting caught and being forced to go to therapy so I can finally get passed all this since I am too cowardly to do it myself. 

Anyway good luck.  You seem to be making the right moves.  Hugs     

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Post Merge: December 23, 2009, 10:48:06 PM

---

I don't know if this is GID related but sometimes I think my dysphoria unconsciously pushes me to be better at other things.  I got a 3.5 GPA this semester at Mount Saint Mary's University, but did not feel that was good enough and ever since my TG feelings began in 2001, As the years go by, it becomes harder and harder for to be happy about and for myself.  This could be a total unrealted issue though and I could just have perfectionism issues.

Hi Lauren,

What is the main fear that's stopping you from going to see a gender therapist? I'm no expert, but most things we worry about never happen anyway (to paraphrase Tom Petty). Remember that just going to therapy doesn't presuppose any particular outcome. It can be simply a release to help you deal with these feelings - it doesn't automatically have to lead to transition, and you don't have to "prove" anything to anybody. My therapist came right out and told me at the start that it's not her job to suddenly declare me a transsexual or otherwise - that's really up to me to decide. These people really are very careful not to lead you anywhere you don't want to go... it's not coercive at all. There's really just positives, except for the hourly fee of course.

Good luck!

Meow

I find this discussion extremely interesting, so just adding my thoughts on the GID feelings moving to the background following sexual release, which I have always had. I think it does create confusion and conflict. Assuming you are physically male with male hormones, your sexual release response may well follow the male pattern - you know, when it's over, it's over. The girls taking female hormones are thus changing their response because of the hormonal change - I say they are improving their response.

No doubt sex in the correct body must be better. There are different responses from different people. Some of us hate sex and want nothing to do with the sex organs we're stuck with, others want sexual release, if not contact, and accept using our (hopefully temporary) organs.

SusanKG

Hihi,

I didn't really read everything, just kinda skimmed over this page to get a feel for what was being discussed...and thought I'd throw my two coins in.

So I think I have had some similar experiences, but also some unique ones too. I'm kind of gender-neutral, yet feel HRT may be necessary for me. I have sides of both genders to me and such. I have hardly ever masturbated in my entire life (can count with all my fingers the number of times I have done it...), I just did not enjoy it. I got nothing from it, my parents were even worried about me. It was almost irritating. But it does not stop the strong sexual urges I'm getting these days. I have gone through periods of time of which where I feel ok as male, and other times it's a living nightmare, and I'd want to be female in a split second. A long time I wondered if it was sexual cause if I have cross-gender feelings, if suddenly I'm overwhelmed with sexual urge it will just take those feelings before and amplify them by 100x. Lately I have opened myself emotionally and towards my own body's sexual feelings in order to try and be more comfortable with myself. I thought after education for a while that being male was alright. But now it's come back that I think I need to acknowledge both sides. But things such that were talked about before were like envy of girls in public and such, I have had similar experiences, it's like one I am attracted to girls, but also envious of them too. And no matter what I do, as silly as I feel wearing female clothing....I can never ever shun it away, the female clothing sections of stores are like a super magnet to me that I can't not think "omg that is awesome, I have to come back here to try that on one day soon...."

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing with sexual stuff, as it is part of your physical body's natural reactions to things. Plus in my own quest I feel it may be needed to have possibly for instance, a temporary 2-3 weeks on HRT to get a feel for how I feel with E in my system and such. But I know this was off topic lol, but it's just a general jumble to throw in that may contribute in some way to this discussion .

Interesting question, MeowmeansMeow. Personally I have never masturbated dressed, But the doubts and confusions you and Lauren mention seem familiar. I masturbate to a lot of things, including imagining being fully female and having sex with men and women. But dressing is different to me - that's for comfort more than excitement. The doubts drive me a little crazy - I am used to deciding things logically and none of this feeling female in a male body is logical. But I cannot ignore the woman-me, not anymore.

For the record, Lauren, I am a therapist and I go to a therapist. I highly recommend it. You may need to interview and find someone that feels right to you, but it can be very helpful. (Warning, it can also be uncomfortable, especially if your therapist asks questions you want to run from. Usually those are the ones you need to look at, but sometimes I prefer denial. We therapists are human too).

I also tried to use logic to as a way to figure out why I feel this way, all that comes out in the end is that I just feel this way and that is that.  I tried writing down where my TG feelings started and to where they developed to now, but that still does not explain anything.  It does not tell me why I was ok with being and actually like being a man from my birth until the age of 16 and then the dramatic shift.  I have made up theory after theory of how I am this way and there is always a hole in each one.  I tried using logic to explain how I wasn't TS because I didn't feel anything until I was 16 or later and then I tried using it to explain how I was a TS but that failed also.  I then came up with a list of proofs of how I am a TS and a list of cons of how I was not a TS.  There is equal weight on both sides. 

I made a thread about it, but I forgot what it is called though.  In the end, logic plays no role in this at all.  If your trying to use logic to figure this out, just look at my posts and ask yourself if you want to travel down the same road as me.   

whoever first described GID/TSism and said that if you enjoy crossdressing to masturbation you were not a genuine TS was perhaps so old that their body no longer worked but I think that any healthy youngish person - less than 70 - and not in a regular sexual relationship/not regularly releasing the buildup of seminal fluids that accummulate in the seminal vesicles and trigger the need to have 'some sort of sex to empty it' will feel sexy when dressing.   I don't really follow the line that masturbation means you are just A PERV
And I do think that the feeling of depression that causes the immediate need to throw off the femela eclothes is as much due to the inability to wear them continuously as to the conncetion they have to masturbation.
To read the crap put out by the BLZB gang gives the impression that if we crossdress all day as a natural part of our transition we will be walking round with monster erections even when we have been on estrogen so long that we no longer get erections..

Quote from: lauren3332 on December 24, 2009, 02:10:31 AM
I have made up theory after theory of how I am this way and there is always a hole in each one.  I tried using logic to explain how I wasn't TS because I didn't feel anything until I was 16 or later and then I tried using it to explain how I was a TS but that failed also.  I then came up with a list of proofs of how I am a TS and a list of cons of how I was not a TS.  There is equal weight on both sides. 

In the end, logic plays no role in this at all. 

So true Lauren. I've definitely been there.

I never had a sex drive, but I did and still do masturbate.  However I do it in the prone position.  I did try three times to do it the normal way, and it freaked the hell out of me.  It was not enjoyable.

When I first started crossdressing, I tried a few times masturbating while wearing, but learned one thing.  It just made my clothes gross. 

Now days, I maybe masturbate about one to three times a week.

For those who have success in this, I wonder what techniques work well to "de-couple masturbation" from trans-thinking. (I no longer get aroused by simply getting or staying dressed.)

I'm currently trying simple abstinence as much as possible, but as you can probably guess, it only works for so long...

Lora

I used to be the same way I would get off to the idea of being a girl and when I was done I'd feel stupid so when I started buying my girl clothes I thought it would be a sexual thing but it quickly faded it was more of a rush to wear them but after a little while of being dressed it stopped and now there's no sexual feelings it just feels right like any other clothing

Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 23, 2009, 12:13:12 PM
Hi again, and sorry if this is an icky or gross topic, but it's the main thing on my mind right now.

I'm one of the weirdos who still masturbates, even though I would like very much to be a woman, complete with any and all surgeries that I could get (if I could afford them). So on the one hand I do feel like an actual transsexual, because I want to transition completely, rather than a ->-bleeped-<-, the difference (as far as I can tell) being that the ->-bleeped-<- is ok staying a man, and doesn't want to lose the penis. Me, I'm fine losing the tackle, in fact I'd be very happy with that... most of the time.

The thing is, I do get a sexual thrill out of dressing. And when I masturbate, the "trans" feelings go away completely immediately after climax, for a couple of minutes or more it's like something's been lifted from my mind and I just don't feel it any more. I feel silly for wanting to be a girl, I'm a man after all, and at this point I often end up taking the clothes off again. The trans feelings inevitably gradually come back though, usually within a couple of minutes.

This is most disturbing to me, because it makes me doubt whether I am "really" a transsexual, or if I have just somehow gotten some sex/gender wires crossed in my brain. Am I just a sexual fetishist? What about the fact that I want to transition, do surgery etc, the whole deal? Does a fetishist actually want those things?

What's the difference between really wanting something, and just having very vivid sexual fantasies about doing it?

I mean I would actually do it (transition completely) if I could, but the fact that the urge goes away so completely immediately after climax makes me wonder if it's all just actually some sex-driven thing.

I have started therapy, and she has suggested that I might try de-coupling the masturbation from the dressing to see how it feels. So far, two days, I've masturbated both times, but kept the clothes on afterwards, and felt very ok with it after that brief "post orgasm chasm". In fact I felt rather sad taking the clothes off later on when I had to go out. So I'm a little confused as to what's going on here.

Has anybody else any insights? I'm looking for a bit more than validation as in "don't worry, you're a girl" etc, I'm actually trying to work out what this means.

Thanks!

Meow

I only read this and the 1st 2-3 posts after. I don't know if this is of any help but, is it ONLY after you've masturbated that the feeling goes away? Are there ANY other times where it goes away? (No need to actually answer this, I just want you to think on it real good) If so, then you might be both a man and a woman. (2 spirit and so on) For me, I hate it but I'm a gender bender. (Basically I switch genders and can even be in between) So "part" of me is male, while the other part of me is female but the two do merge together at times so I feel neither. The end result for me in terms of what gender I am is that of a girl and I absolutely HATE feeling like a guy at all. So I know I'm a girl. For you, I don't know, this is something you're going to need to really think back on previous events are and if it turns out you were feeling like a guy at times, but a girl at other times, well, it's up to you to determine which gender you truly are. Good luck!

Quote from: lauren3332 on December 23, 2009, 02:44:19 PM
You are worried that having sexual stirs because of this means that you are really a guy that is only confused.  I don't think just because you get sexually stirred over clothes that this disqualifies you from being a transsexual.  If you have desires to be a girl while you are sexually aroused, than that would be a different story.  The body is going to do what it is going to do when it comes to sex.  Even though people can be Transsexual, they still need release from sexual tension.  Do you ever have thoughts of being a girl in a nonsexual setting?  Do you find yourself at work or at school, or wherever looking at other women and fantasizing about being similar to them?  Do you see a group of women and get depressed that you are not like that?  These types of things are not set in stone either, but things like this indicate what your dysphoria is like and how it acts. 

I tend to be drawm towards women that have similar attributes to me.  I never really noticed this until just a little while ago.  I think it is because I feel I will never be able to portray a feminine image and these girls help give me hope that maybe one day I can actually do this.  Maybe the clothes themeselves actually represent a personality trait about you.  This sounds weird I know. What I mean iis similar to how red means blood, or black is a symbol for death.  Do you associate a certain meaning to the clothes you dress in?  Do you ever feel like you need more than just clothes to be happy?  It seems to me that you do. 

I got stuck in this whirl myself.  Some how my TG issues were triggered by pantyhose,  I first I thought it was wierd that I wanted to dress up in it and all.  I used to have strong fantasies about this and then I started fantasizing about dressing up in other things.  I finally did dress up in a skirt and blouse in 2002 and I put on a few dresses.  This satisfied me for awhile but eventually clothes were not enough.  I was too scared to push forward but a year later I started trying to work on my voice.  then I got too scared again and thought since there was not a big difference between the genders anyway, I should not want to do this to myself.  For a while I could put these feelings out of my head but then they would return.  When I played games I would always put my initials in as the female ones I gave myself.  I also had fantasies of dressing up like a female school teacher.  I thought this discounted me as a TS and that I was actually a male because of this fantasy and thought this type of outfit might be making me horny without me realizing it.  Anyway, I realized that this was not the case.  Since I feared this as being a male fantasy and hated that this could be just that, I learned that this was yet another indicator of how strong my dysphoria really was.  Then I realized I thought of this school teacher stuff because this is where I engage most of the outside world as well as other women and I am studying philosophy so it was only natural that I would fantasize about school teachers. 

Another reason this is hard is because of the "primary TS" stories that are out there saying " I felt this way since I was 2 seconds old."  I am not saying these stories are wrong but it does create a problem for those that don't feel anything TG until later like you and I did.  I did not feel any inkling of being TG until 15 or 16.  I believe that some TSism can develop over time.  The fear also arise because we fear that therapists won't let go through with it because they will say we are men and then stop us in our tracks.  Then yout think, if I am diagnosed as a man, what do I do about these feelings then and how can I do anything about them when no one believes me? 

Sorry for taking forever         

I'm really not sure of what the rules are or anything, since I just signed up, and I know this thread/topic has been dead for a long time, but I can't help but say that this comment I'm quoting here represents everything I feel. It's almost as if it was written for me in the first place. Not just part of it, all of it I could say. So thanks Lauren.

I'm glad I'm not completely alone. I was starting to think I would go insane because I kinda been anticipating my feelings to a couple members of my family, not being specific and avoiding being conclusive about it (cause I myself am not sure of what's going on with me) and they didn't exactly respond well. Not only that, but I feel so confused right now, when I was younger this was easier to deal with, the feeling that maybe I was never meant to be this. I thought it was a sexual urge of the moment, but now it comes back every time, every day, it's almost unbearable sometimes, it's not only sexual anymore. This has happened to me eversince I was a kid, not too young though, about 10, crosdressing while my parents where not home. At first it was all about how I looked in them. Then I just wanted to do normal things in the house while being dressed. It felt really good. And I thought it was just a fetish too, until just a few months now. It's all coming back, but now I don't just feel sexual thrill alone, I want more, and I'm afraid, because I don't know if that's what's right, if that is really what I feel. I'm afraid that I might be just a man with weird and intense obsessions. That would make me really sad. I don't want all this for nothing.

I find that if I was given the chance to be born again, I'd choose to be a girl, without hesitating. But that's not how it works, life's a lot more complicated. I'd choose same family, same personality, almost same everything. Sometimes I don't find myself uncomfortable with being a man, that adds to the confusion, but then I find situations in which I don't want to look myself in the mirror. Or I get that feeling that if I was a girl in a certain situation I'm going through, it'd be much more fun. And then there's that time when I simply get obsessed and can't think about anything else, I feel very uncomfortable, it almost turns into anger, this strange thought of "this is so unfair" invades my mind. Maybe I didn't play with barbies as a kid, but my wish of being a girl was quite alive while in elementary, I can tell you. And it is now too, probably stronger than ever. I like girl clothes, I might not be the typical girl you see walking down a street, my personality is kinda special, I'm sort of a freak even now, looking like a guy. I love k-pop, play a lot of videogames, and my humor is very childish. I like cute things, and I'm a very sensitive person, eventhough I don't look like it. I used to have a group of friends(guys) who I used to hang out with. Throughout our friendships, I have had many problems with them because I was different. Cause I felt different things, cause I wanted to do different things, and they always wanted to do the same boring things. There were a lot of things I never told them, even if they were good people, because they would never understand this.

I'm 22 now, and if I was given a choice, like magic, I know what I'd choose, like I said.

I found a friend who understands me now, I met him through the internet, and supports me, thankfully. I hope it's enough to hold this till my appointment with the therapist comes, which is in about 2 or 3 weeks.

There, I had to say this somewhere. I really wanted to meet people that feel like me, kind and good people. I hope I've finally found the place.

I think it's fairly normal for a lot of life's fears, worries and concerns to vanish right after orgasm, only to quickly reappear a short while later.  Dysphoria can absolutely be a part of that.

Having a really bad cold can have a similar effect in that it can almost be an out of body kind of state and you might not feel anything at all in regards to gender, either way.

Pre-HRT, I felt a lot like the original poster. The feelings always came back a short while later (usually while getting dressed again). There were times life pushed me to purge and pretend it wasn't there, but it always came back. 

If I could only dress for a short while, it frequently included masturbation (perhaps to "heighten" the experience?).  If I could dress for a day, it didn't, or at least, not til the end, and I never wanted those days to end. 

Just over 2 weeks into HRT though, a lot of this has shifted. Any thrill related specifically to clothing has largely subsided. My thoughts center more on what's flowing through my veins and the changes to come. I'm happier, more centered, able to diet, knowing that self improvement is actually moving me towards the person I want to be.

I think the word of caution would be, people probably shouldn't go on HRT to "test" whether or not they've got a crossdressing fetish or dysphoria. There's a lot of good advice in this thread though about how to distinguish between fetish thoughts and dysphoria, and I'd wager that's where a good therapist would begin and attempt to help distinguish.

Welcome to Susan's Place SNgurl. I have been listening to peoples stories for many years and the Transgender theme is something I can spot with just a few words like a song you have heard many times. You have found the right place to go forward in your life and you will discover many of us are much like you. We are more than willing to help you because in turn you will help the next person down the line. Should you need something, ask and most likely somebody will be able to answer your questions.

As for dead threads, sometimes they are a bit of an issue because the past moderators might have left some clean up issues but the software has a feature to auto lock dead threads and it isn't active so if a dead thread speaks to you, it may speak to others as well.


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Meow, I could have written your post several years ago.  While I knew I wanted to be physically female pretty much from age 5, I still experienced the same thing. 

The concern was in the back of my mind often.  It was one reason I made sure that my therapist had no doubt of me being trans when she officially diagnosed me.  But I found myself losing the sexual component as I thought more and more about pursuing transition, especially as I started going out in public finally as "me".  I'm sure that starting HRT also played a role somewhere.  Once I started thinking of going out in public, I realized that the "dressy" things I had liked before would not be appropriate to wear to the post office, grocery store, mall, etc.  Out were cocktail dresses, high  heels and hose.  In were jeans, casual tops, casual skirts, flats and sneakers.  At one time, I would have thought "no way", but it's just called life and reality for females doing day-to-day stuff. 

So, to answer your question, I think it may happen more frequently than therapists would have us believe.  I am so very, very glad I proceeded forward and have ZERO doubts about transition or that I am female.  Nowadays, dressing female isn't a turn on, but it makes me feel more confident, more accomplished and more natural.

I wish you all the best in your journey, hon.
Jen

The original post fits me to a tee.  I'm glad it was picked up again.  My dysphoria started pre-puberty.  Then it was just a strange curiosity.  Things started to change as soon as puberty kicked in.  The attraction to and obsession with feminine clothes was pre-eminent.  Just walking through the lingerie dept. in a store would trigger arousal. Once I learned the word, I thought it was a fetish, but then came the envy of the female body. This was in the mid 60's there was little info out there for me.  I was a fervent masturbator especially when dressed in lingerie and yes, the dysphoria faded quickly after climax. But it always returned.

I have often wondered what kind of reaction a cis male would have if subjected to HRT.  I know they have used this therapy on sexual predators, but what about a cis male who had no history of sexual or gender confusion.

What I do know is that once this trans woman started HRT, everything changed for the better: spiritually, emotionally, mentally and sexually.  The estrogen was something that my body needed.  It's just a shame that I had to wait until I was in my 60's to receive it.

Hugz,
Joi

Since I don't know you, I can't say if you're transsexual or not. You know yourself best too anyway. But I can tell you a bit about my experience and a bit about how I has/had it. Before the puberty hit me very hard, I could mastrubate. I was in the puberty then, but not came so long. I could enjoy mastrubation and I had sexual pleasure then. I forgot all the worries and all my problems. So forgetting you're trans, stress etc. is very normal while mastrubate. Especially when the dysphoria hasn't hit you too hard. But several months later, I lost my sexual pleasure and I didn't want anything anymore. The reason is because the dysphoria hit me much harder, I came longer in the wrong puberty etc. (I would not go into the worst details) I hasn't so hard bottom dysphoria. It's sex characteristics dysphoria that haunt me very hard.