Hi everyone ,

I am wondering how many of us really identify correctly gender wise , if it is to consider that the brain clearly 'impose' a gender and specific traits.

I mean , most of the girls who were sure they were girls since childhood say they they felt it . But how does it really feel to be a girl ? I understand that may be some skills and attractions towards girl specific things , but many of them are socially created . Also I guess it is about taking mom or dad as model , that would say what you are inside.
But especially at that age , I guess it is something about luck too , about having the right conditions for that , the right parents , and so on .

Basically it is about the 'girl' as a concept , at very young ages identifying with them is may be not so reliable , one's behavior being altered by so many factors , especially if other traits mix with that .Is it possible that because of an early 'feel' to be a girl , one's personality to be formed in that manner , so they will be forever girls even if their brain it is not feminized . I am thinking at the nurture theory here .
Also , I am thinking at myself , I was forced in a way to identify as a boy , by so many factors , and even that now I identify as a girl , I still have some huge problems about that (I hope they will be overcome by time , therapy and another living environment , including no more pressure to be a boy ) . I feel that I created a package with all the boy traits that the society demanded for , and I still tend to use it .

Observing myself , I noticed that I have a 'mental universe ' a system that judge everything , based on all the concepts and data I have , so if my brain verify an idea with those concepts and it doesn't pass I tend to reject it .
I find that very annoying , as I know that many data and doctrines were imposed to me , and they are wrong , yet unconsciously they block some other traits and judging .
That was the case with transsexuals , until not long ago I thought that a transsexual girl for example couldn't be just like a cis girl , because I didn't had the information about brain gender , so that made me not identifying with cis girls , but rather with image that transgender have in the media , that an important masculine part is present .

It seems that I can't allow an idea , a feeling , if it is not plausible by the standards and doctrines I have at one given moment.

And I am also thinking at persons that identify as gender fluid , pangender , agender or other categories . What kind of brain do they have ? Do they identify as that because that is what they 'biological' feel , or is it because of the social standards , pressures , advantages , etc ?

How much do the knowledge matter in this problem ?I mean if you are not aware of the gender spectrum idea , you would think in standard binary mode .
Also , even unconsciously , how much does one's doctrines and beliefs (like radical religions ) prevent them to find the true self ?

Is it a way to be aware of what holds you back and solve that issue so that you can really be 'you' , and the information impulses from brain (gender wise) not being altered so you would 'feel' the real you ?

Also what is the real 'self' .
Because it seems that even if you are indoctrinated with otherwise rationally wrong ideas and facts , and you follow some wrong principles , you still can live and feel ok about it , not knowing that you are 'living wrong'
So is it possible to bypass the brain gender ( actually one's real gender) and personality  ?

I am not religious , although I think the 'atheist' term has a bad vibe , a bad reputation , as if I would be a really bad person .
Anyway , I am thinking at people who are going to monasteries and say that they find their true self , their peace and I am thinking that it is more the power of induction and positive thinking , and I also think , that for most of the people , it matters the experience , if they would experience some other ways of finding peace of mind , maybe that way of life would feel appropriate for describing  their 'true self '.

There is a very good medical paper on this topic in a past post which I adhere to quite strongly and so do my therapist. A lot of us are just wired this way genetically  through the development of our brain at birth. I know for my self this could be the only explanation for who I am. I became conscious of my disconnect from the male body around 4 years old. There's no way environment could of played a role at least no where near the extent to cause my brain to be totally opposite of my physical appearance . I've literally have gone through hell trying to realign mind to body through out my life. The solution for me finally came with putting the estrogen where it was physically missing for a long time. Once the estrogen was put in the proper alignment was made.

 It really gets me down this , as it makes me think that I might be a ->-bleeped-<- , and I just can't live with that .
I can't say that I felt being girl from childhood : I was a girlish 'boy' , I had lots of the symptoms I heard that others did , but I just don't remind thinking  clearly : 'I am a girl ' . But as I said my mind , already prone to issues by conditions like obsessive-compulsive disorder and others , was strongly altered by religious and wrong 'parental' doctrines and pressures.

I just don't know what to think anymore ..
Also about estrogen , clearly it already made me more peaceful , but is it a placebo effect , or is the effect as strong as it was in your and others' cases?
For example , in my teens , clearly it was an unease and lack of harmony with my body , even if it was pretty good by boy standards.
But for a few years , I used to consider a girl (or rather a 'transsexual' ) , and maybe because of depression or resigning , I just lived like that , with a semi-feminine body and with a semi-true perception of my body , I sometime realize that I may have been stacked with a image of my body that doesn't reflect its actual state - much more feminine that a man's one .

I am anxious to start therapy , we will see what the results will be .

*I said it before , I am totally ok with other ->-bleeped-<-s , I know it is a genuine condition , so I don't want anyone to feel offended in any way.

well therapy, will help you sort things out.

Quote from: stephaniec on February 05, 2014, 11:45:56 AM
well therapy, will help you sort things out.

.... or it will worsen the situation
I I would feel the therapist's doubts about being MTF, I will panic as I already do and my mind would change the perception about what it 'feels'
I know that living as a man is not an option , and I am clearly not one of them (at least by the social point of view )
And other options just don't let me have peace of mind .

And I just saw today 2 cis women (in the same office ! , though unrelated even by race ) with small digit ratio , it really gave me a boost of confidence and peace , but now I am  down  again 

I'll tell you my story ,It's probably the best way to explain. When I was 4 years old I started to cross dress. It became a severe issue for me all my life. I needed to do it . There is no way I could of stopped it therapy or no therapy. I did this all through grade school , high school , college and beyond. I never thought to much of whether I was male or female excepted that I considered the boy down the street from me at 5 years old my boy friend. I'm bi and been this way all my life. I've had very strong relationships with both male and female. Mentally I've always been far more comfortable with female friends . I really don't get a long with males as friends because I know I think quite differently from males I've known all my life. I really don't like the male role at all to the point of complete isolation from all things male. The best time of my life was a time when all my friends were female and I was treated as such by them,  I have a deep suspicion that because I grew up in an earlier era I was more or less forced into the male role by therapists who I sought help from early on. I have a great therapy team now who are bringing me through transition and I am very grateful and happy because of it.

Quote from: Claudia_FF on February 05, 2014, 11:55:32 AM
.... or it will worsen the situation
I I would feel the therapist's doubts about being MTF, I will panic as I already do and my mind would change the perception about what it 'feels'
I know that living as a man is not an option , and I am clearly not one of them (at least by the social point of view )
And other options just don't let me have peace of mind .

And I just saw today 2 cis women (in the same office ! , though unrelated even by race ) with small digit ratio , it really gave me a boost of confidence and peace , but now I am  down  again 

You might have to research to find the proper therapist.

Being so long past the whole thing and firmly enmeshed in woman's life I have looked back at my childhood and asked WHY I was so sure I was a girl. It wasn't something I understood until I read about the differences in male & female social and psychological development. In retrospect, my psychological and social development paralleled the typical female development which is why I identified as female .... or was it my preference for female company that led to female psychological and social development?  Considering that such development is largely dependent on brain development during childhood, it would seem logical that my brain developed along female lines rather than male lines. And considering that much of this development occurs before puberty, there must be inherent "wiring differences".

Unfortunately gender-specific development is not politically correct these day so one has to dig for it!

Quote from: Northern Jane on February 05, 2014, 06:31:26 PM
Being so long past the whole thing and firmly enmeshed in woman's life I have looked back at my childhood and asked WHY I was so sure I was a girl. It wasn't something I understood until I read about the differences in male & female social and psychological development. In retrospect, my psychological and social development paralleled the typical female development which is why I identified as female .... or was it my preference for female company that led to female psychological and social development?  Considering that such development is largely dependent on brain development during childhood, it would seem logical that my brain developed along female lines rather than male lines. A

Jane, I'm SO glad you wrote this.

This is something that puzzles me. How did so many of us figure out so easily that they were women when I haven't even the slightest idea what it would mean to "know" I'm a woman. I'm just as trans, just as MtF, but never had that feeling. How would that even feel?

However I have had, throughout my life, a strong preference for female social situations, just like you. I've read thousands of posts on Susan's, but this is the first that connects my feelings with the typical ones.

Honestly, I never remember "thinking" or "knowing" I was female when I was growing up.  I just always wanted to be one, wished, dreamed ect.

It wasn't until I experimented with presenting myself as a girl on online games, that I found I really enjoyed people treating me as a female. Now does this mean I have the brain of a girl? I dunno.

There are things I do that girls "typically" do and there are things I do that guys "typically" do. Honestly I think I've come to the conclusion that guys and girls are more alike then society and we like to admit. But this is just my opinion.

Quote from: Aina on February 05, 2014, 07:52:57 PM
Honestly, I never remember "thinking" or "knowing" I was female when I was growing up.  I just always wanted to be one, wished, dreamed ect.

It wasn't until I experimented with presenting myself as a girl on online games, that I found I really enjoyed people treating me as a female. Now does this mean I have the brain of a girl? I dunno.

This experience is EXACTLY how dozens of transwomen describe theirs.

I don't think I have the "brain of a woman". I say that the gendered part of my brain "really wants me to be female". Whether my brain is or isn't female is up to others to judge.

Though I feel fortunate that I was blessed with a female heart.

I just know that I am female. Apparently I always have. I was able to start hrt early and have srs. (Having a penis def not for me.) doctors often told me if I'm really trans I would want and need srs. Turns out for me they were always right. But like self esteem and self validation. I am so chill and happy with myself

To be honest, I have no idea why I am trans.  All I know is that since I was little I have felt I should have been a girl or really wanted to be one.  Those feelings were always strong and never could shake them no matter how hard I attempted to get rid of them.  However, that only explains the effect not the cause.  While I do believe there is a biological factor in my case, I wouldn't say that nurture didn't play a role. In a way, I've always looked up to my big sisters and mother and they definitely had an influence on me.  In particular, I had a very close bond with one of my sisters and we always considered ourselves twins and did a lot of things together, including dressing up.  It's very possible that my relationship with my sister had an impact.  After all, I would always look up to her and follow her lead.  I've always found myself being inspired, identifying, or following the lead of other girls in some way.  So, I wouldn't deny that nurture could have played a role.  In fact, I'm sure it did in some way.  In any case, my identity has been formed and whether or not I was born this way or came to be trans it really makes no difference.  The fact is it is who I am and it's something that I have learned I can't change no matter how hard I try.  So at the end of the day, it doesn't really alter anything in the grand scheme of things.   

Honestly, don't let it bug you.  You are who you are.  Search your feelings and follow your heart.  If you have difficulty understanding what the answer is, then a gender therapist can always help you.  Philosophical topics like this are fine for the purpose of introspection, but don't let it rule over your heart.  Good luck finding the right path.

And then there is me. Unlike a lot of other transsexuals I never had any feelings that I was a female until they slowly began happening to me when I was 45, and now I'm transitioning at 51. If it's nurture that causes people to be trans* then it sure took a long time to manifest for me.

I personally believe that gender has a biological basis; it is hard-wired in our brains at birth through either the genetic lottery, or through some disruption to our mother's pregnancy that happens in the womb. You can clearly see why I believe this in the behavior of trans* children that are not old enough to understand gender roles and yet exhibit strong cross gender behavior.

I look at it like this:

Sex - Male or Female; this refers to a persons physical attributes after birth and what biochemical process will occur during puberty and throughout life.
Gender - Man or Woman; this is a social construct where each has respective roles in society.

We can never change our sex, in that, we will always be biologically male, but we can change the social construct of gender. 

At least, that's how I make sense of it in my head without all the medical/psychological mumbo jumbo.

-AM

Quote from: suzifrommd on February 05, 2014, 08:07:08 PM
This experience is EXACTLY how dozens of transwomen describe theirs.

I don't think I have the "brain of a woman". I say that the gendered part of my brain "really wants me to be female". Whether my brain is or isn't female is up to others to judge.

Though I feel fortunate that I was blessed with a female heart.

Sometime I feel the same , but it seems that scientifically , the brain could be more or female (with some variations and intermediate points), so it is not like a personality trait or like a soul .
I always wanted to believe that it is more , that we are not some robots , that we are not predictable in a great measure by the time of birth or even before , that we could not be conceived as 'parents' or science would want .
But it seems that everything is in the brain and genes . That although it seem to us that we have an independent will , it is just a result of  the wiring in the brain and context , the situation , the evolution . We are different because of the brain and gene slightly variations and by the infinite environmental factors (of different kinds) that surrounded us before now and that will surround us .
I guess a powerful enough computer with the right data amount (it is impossible to know , but lets imagine we know all the situation a child would face , or another animal baby in a controlled lab environment) could create a real good model of how a person will become
We are still evolving as individuals , even though we are not as receptive and malleable as children are (and that has also an explanation and role in nature )
I feel so unimportant and meaningless , maybe because us as humans tend to see 'animals' and forget that beside all the evolution , we are just one of them , just a better model of the first unicellular form of life .
I also tend to feel that what I definitely am is what brain I have , the rest is just my thoughts .

I just want to say that the amoeba exists because inte the eyes of the universe its just as important as any other piece of existence

Just because GID did not manifest in obvious ways when you were younger doesn't mean you are not trans. Zinnia Jones wrote a great blog post called That Was Dysphoria? I've referenced it elsewhere. Just Google. "Zinnia Jones That Was Dysphoria?" and it will come up.

Often dysphoria manifests in non-obvious ways.