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Is transsexualism an evolutionary process?

Started by brianna1016, February 12, 2014, 02:33:30 AM

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Lyric

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes (from a documentary film on transgender): "Biology love diversity but society abhors it". I won't speculate on evolution, but I'm quite certain that variation and diverse individuals have always made a healthy contribution to our species. It's not as easy to be different, but in the long run, it's good for everyone.

~ Lyric ~
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life." - Steve Jobs
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Shantel

I think Pinkkatie's comments reflect reality more than some. The natural selection and survival of a species will no doubt be affected to some extent by those of us who have arbitrarily removed ourselves from the reproductive gene pool. The strong will survive and go on in the physical world. I have a different theory concerning how trans people may fit into a much different scenario in another dimension, it's based more on the spiritual aspect of humanity.
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ErinM

Call me pessimistic, but from a biological standpoint I can't see transsexualism and/or homosexuality being an evolutionary advantage. Assuming there is a genetic link, the introduction of genetic variance does not always equate to advantages. I can easily say this with personal experience.

That being from a cultural prospective I do agree that diversity can serve to better everyone.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: peky on February 12, 2014, 07:22:14 AM
Having some transsexuals and/or homosexual males who wanted to stay behind doing the female-role chores was advantageous because this trans-females and gay males were still able to defend the females, children, and old males left behind.

Well you, maybe. If I'm the one to defend the village, heaven help them!
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Natalia

Quote from: ErinM on February 13, 2014, 10:54:16 AM
Call me pessimistic, but from a biological standpoint I can't see transsexualism and/or homosexuality being an evolutionary advantage. Assuming there is a genetic link, the introduction of genetic variance does not always equate to advantages. I can easily say this with personal experience.

That being from a cultural prospective I do agree that diversity can serve to better everyone.

I agree.

Everything that contributes to increase the survival of our species (i.e.the chances of us getting old enough to procriate) will be selected by nature and will go forward to our descendants. As our society and technology progrides, sometimes some genes that were deleterious won't make difference anymore. Things that were potentially fatal on the past, as myopia (imagine a man with high myopia trying to flee from a huge bear...if he can't even see the bear, he will be eaten and he won't pass his genes forward). Genes that give us better strenght or intelligence will much likely result in a more capable human being and will probably be passed forward.

On our modern society we don't need to flee from bears anymore and we also can wear glasses! Lucky me I was born in modern times or I would be dinner for some hungry wolf.

All this to make an analogy. Homossexuality and transexualism don't bring any advantage for the procriation of our species. Of course, they contribute on many other ways and I am not saying it is deleterious or that it can't bring advantages, but when we talk about our ability to procriate, homossexuality and transsexualism works exactly on the opposite way. Our "condition" makes us higly unable to pass our gene forward and, if we won't have children, this gene will stop right here.

Of course some transexuals were married and have children, as it happens with some homossexuals...however most of us won't. We (MtFs) become chemicaly castrated in order to be transformed into a woman and as we lack the right organs, we won't be able to have children. There is no way we can pass our "tendencies". Nature is making it's job and indeed, it is a waste (logically speaking) to maintain individuals that won't be able to procriate inside their own species.

As it was already written, we are seeing an increase on the number of transexuals/homossexuals because our population is increasing. Evolution will work to extinguish us, not the opposite way.

But, talking on a less evolutionary way...as our technology progresses, we don't need anymore strong men able to hunt a lion and caring mothers that need to protect their children all the time. Our society will evolve to a more uniform society with less differencies from men to women, perhaps even an almost androgynous species...but the sexual roles will much probably stay the same once we still need a woman and a men to bear a child.   

If someday our technology makes possible that a transwoman can have a biological child after transitioning, then there will be the time when transsexualism will evolve the same way as myopia, because it won't matter anymore.

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Jess42

Quote from: Shantel on February 13, 2014, 09:50:48 AM
I think Pinkkatie's comments reflect reality more than some. The natural selection and survival of a species will no doubt be affected to some extent by those of us who have arbitrarily removed ourselves from the reproductive gene pool. The strong will survive and go on in the physical world. I have a different theory concerning how trans people may fit into a much different scenario in another dimension, it's based more on the spiritual aspect of humanity.

I would love to hear your theory Shantel. I too think it's more of a spiritual aspect.

I think Pinkkaties's comments are more true but when it comes to natural selection and the way we are evolving to a more technical society is it really the strong that survive anymore. Like I said earlier, wars now and in the future can be fought totally on a technical level without troops even being on the ground. Look at all the computer attacks, a possible attack on the power grid and or the so called EMP weapons that stop everything electrical and make it more into junk than equipment. So really the strong in the sense of brute strength and survival isn't as much in the picture as the more intelligent with could go either way, good or bad depending upon moralities. Genetically, natural selection will go on as usual but I remember hearing about designer babies a while ago and the morality of that. Can't remember where but we can really screw up the gene pool in a heart beat by manipulating the wrong genes or just by things we don't fully understand on a genetic level. But then again that too can go either way depending upon the "powers that be" and their particular agendas. I know it sounds crazy but is it really??? Look how most of society looks at us and can we really trust a society that is so manipulative, ego stroking and power hungry?
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barbie

Quote from: Lyric on February 13, 2014, 09:26:17 AM
This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes (from a documentary film on transgender): "Biology love diversity but society abhors it". I won't speculate on evolution, but I'm quite certain that variation and diverse individuals have always made a healthy contribution to our species. It's not as easy to be different, but in the long run, it's good for everyone.

~ Lyric ~

Lyric,

Truly I agree on it.

For other aspects, for example, regarding criminal psychopaths, a few years ago, a serial murderer was arrested in my country. Experts diagnosed that the murderer has no emotion for feeling pain and sorrow of other people. Still, he has been a good dad to his two sons. After he was arrested, he just worried about the future of his two sons. Except that, he slept and ate too well in the jail. Probably he could be a hero or an adorable warrior in ancient times.

Of course, gender identity and diversity has no relationship with crime. When looking into other aspects of human psychology and behavior, there are certain ranges that society can tolerate.

Just my short thought.

barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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Shantel

Quote from: Jess42 on February 13, 2014, 01:07:52 PM
I would love to hear your theory Shantel. I too think it's more of a spiritual aspect.

I believe that mankind is tripartite, we are made up of body soul and spirit. We mainly focus our discussions at Susan's on the body and the soul which in effect is the center of our human emotions. The spirit is the essence of that electric life force breathed into each of us by our creator. I'd prefer not to enter into that discussion here as it will invariably turn into a clusterf**k between those who are alive and those who are dead to spiritual things.

Quote from: Jess42 on February 13, 2014, 01:07:52 PM
Look how most of society looks at us and can we really trust a society that is so manipulative, ego stroking and power hungry?

Absolutely not!
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Jess42

Quote from: Shantel on February 13, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
I believe that mankind is tripartite, we are made up of body soul and spirit. We mainly focus our discussions at Susan's on the body and the soul which in effect is the center of our human emotions. The spirit is the essence of that electric life force breathed into each of us by our creator. I'd prefer not to enter into that discussion here as it will invariably turn into a clusterf**k between those who are alive and those who are dead to spiritual things.

Absolutely not!

Thanks Shantel. We think alike on that one and definatly agree about the "fustercluck". ;)
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barbie

I began to clearly recognize my ->-bleeped-<- just after my two sons grew up to the elementary school. Probably I thought I finished the duty of bringing up my kids, and I could have a lot of leisure time to be introspective.

This experiences makes me think that crossdressing and transsexualism could relieve or compromise sexual impetus when their spouse passed away or left, and it is difficult to get another spouse, but they have to continue to sustain their kids. Virtually, in some emergency cases, I can become both man and women, or both dad and mom, while supporting my kids. Without a spouse, just typical man and woman probably have had difficulty in sustaining their offspring.

Two cents of my thought.

barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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barbie

In retrospect, I was good at sewing and cooking when I was unmarried. My friends used to praise my cooking. I stopped cooking once I got married, although initially I was better than my wife in cooking. Then, about 10 years ago, my wife alone visited Korea, and I stayed with my two sons. I cooked again, feeling like I become a housewife. I took care of my kids and gave ride to the school everyday. And I went to my work place. I was really busy playing both of roles as dad and mom. Anyway I managed to do it, and I was greatly relieved when my wife came back.

This experience makes me think that, in difficult times, transgender dads and moms could have more advantages in bringing up their kids to survive.

barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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ErinM


Quote from: Natalia on February 13, 2014, 12:17:07 PM
But, talking on a less evolutionary way...as our technology progresses, we don't need anymore strong men able to hunt a lion and caring mothers that need to protect their children all the time. Our society will evolve to a more uniform society with less differencies from men to women, perhaps even an almost androgynous species...but the sexual roles will much probably stay the same once we still need a woman and a men to bear a child.   

If someday our technology makes possible that a transwoman can have a biological child after transitioning, then there will be the time when transsexualism will evolve the same way as myopia, because it won't matter anymore.

I saw this on a neurofibromatosis support group:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/exclusive-jawdropping-breakthrough-hailed-as-landmark-in-fight-against-hereditary-diseases-as-crispr-technique-heralds-genetic-revolution-8925295.html

Technology is going to be a major game changer in terms of biological evolution for those who can afford it. While it is still early there is the possibility that we could edit our DNA to our liking. Combine that with the ability to grow new organs and the possibilities are endless. 

That being said, like others I believe that I am more than my DNA.
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brianna1016

Thanks to everyone who commented on this :) 

I think I've come to the conclusion that transsexualism is NOT an evolutionary process, however it is very much a spiritual process that may advance our species in other ways known and unknown.

Now I have a new question: Is gender-fluid / bi-gender an evolutionary process?
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Elegant_Evelyn

I love this question and ponder my nights away on the subject. I have nothing i have thought of that strikes me as profound. I will keep this in mind more thanks on the recurring idea.
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helen2010

#34
A good question indeed and I think that it does resonate with my identity as tg and potentially ts. In dark moments I have said to non tg friends that my being tg is 'nature's little joke' or not much more than a random mutation.  However in reality I regard being gd as indeed a blessing, providing a privileged but demanding life experience which will cause me to take paths which while less travelled are uniquely mine.  They have brought me to and through beautiful places and experiences, I have met wonderful people and grown in the process.  So in both aspects and at both a societal and individual level I feel that tg/ts is evolution in action.
Aisla
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barbie

Quote from: Aisla on February 15, 2014, 04:39:59 PM
A good question indeed and I think that it does resonate with my identity as tg and potentially ts. In dark moments I have said to non tg friends that my being tg is 'nature's little joke' or not much more than a random mutation.  However in reality I regard being gd as indeed a blessing, proving a privileged but demanding life experience which will cause me to take paths which while less travelled are uniquely mine.  They have brought me to and through beautiful places and experiences, I have met wonderful people and grown in the process.  So in both aspects and at both a societal and individual level I feel that tg/ts is evolution in action.
Aisla

In short, 2 is better than 1.

barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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Elegant_Evelyn

These are gorgeous outlooks, positive people are a good thing to see.
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brianna1016

Quote from: Aisla on February 15, 2014, 04:39:59 PM
A good question indeed and I think that it does resonate with my identity as tg and potentially ts. In dark moments I have said to non tg friends that my being tg is 'nature's little joke' or not much more than a random mutation.  However in reality I regard being gd as indeed a blessing, providing a privileged but demanding life experience which will cause me to take paths which while less travelled are uniquely mine.  They have brought me to and through beautiful places and experiences, I have met wonderful people and grown in the process.  So in both aspects and at both a societal and individual level I feel that tg/ts is evolution in action.
Aisla
Wow. Awesome. Thanks for sharing. :)
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Jess42

Has anyone ever thought that transgender and transexualism being an evolutionary process to realize that we are much deeper than physical beings bound by stereotypes that just rally doesn't matter anymore? A trans man and trans woman can procreate. Transexualism doesn't mean the end of the human race, just maybe the end of old set in stone societal norms of humanitity. It would just be the reversal of the new male gender carrying the child to term and then the new female gender nurturing the child. Not much different than a lot of bird species in which the female lays the egg and the males protect and nurture the eggs. Regardless these gender variations have been with us probably since the dawn of mankind, it's just now we are afforded more time to explore them than we have in the past. As long as there is copulation and fertilization the species will survive no matter what gender role the mother and father. Just my thoughts.
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Shantel

Quote from: Jess42 on February 18, 2014, 12:43:25 PM
Has anyone ever thought that transgender and transexualism being an evolutionary process to realize that we are much deeper than physical beings bound by stereotypes that just rally doesn't matter anymore? A trans man and trans woman can procreate. Transexualism doesn't mean the end of the human race, just maybe the end of old set in stone societal norms of humanitity. It would just be the reversal of the new male gender carrying the child to term and then the new female gender nurturing the child. Not much different than a lot of bird species in which the female lays the egg and the males protect and nurture the eggs. Regardless these gender variations have been with us probably since the dawn of mankind, it's just now we are afforded more time to explore them than we have in the past. As long as there is copulation and fertilization the species will survive no matter what gender role the mother and father. Just my thoughts.

Your thoughts are similar to my own on this subject and it can probably be expanded on considerably.
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