trust me, theres nobody whos available soon, and sympathetic to anything but lots of cash...
and no, no support groups, tbh, i dont really want to meet up with other people going through this, i need professional help with my issues, id prefer to avoid the community irl tbh...
R

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 07:35:24 PM
thing is, i dont need to work out if i can pass, there are people in my friend group at uni who dont know im trans, just female, i look female, even in ieans and a hoodie, but im too scared to loose that safety, and ambiguity in my head, its that i fear if i wear something obvious, ill instantly get picked out as trans.

R

It sounds as if you are confident you can pass as androgen. It seems when it comes to actually looking seriously female, you are worried you won't pass. What other fear could you be talking about? You think the more you present an expectation of being female, the closer people will look and you will be scrutinized much more than you currently are.

I mean, sure if you dress really sexy in heels and basic black dress with full makeup you are going to draw attention. Guys will be trying to get a look and other women will be looking for faults. It's the woman's world. Don't you think all women hate this scrutiny? Many women will deliberately dress down just to not draw unwanted attention. Who wants to get all fixed up just to get a gallon of milk? Sometimes you don't want to look good, you want a bowl of cereal.

The thing is, you need to build confidence and the only way to do that, is to go out dressed totally female and see what happens. Eventually this will happen, but you will decide when. You can do it now, or you can do like me and wait until you are 42. But let me assure you, eventually the need will force you to be who you are and you won't care what anyone thinks. I wish there was a way I could make you see you already have the power to do this, but I guess like the rest of us, you will find your own way.

Love always,
Elizabeth

heh, i dont think i pass as androgynous, or that that takes much effort tbh, I guess if i play this game long enough, hrt will make me un readable, as its already steaming towards this paticular port. maybe the waiting game is win?

R

Security is in your mind Racheal, you're already unreadble, fear will not go away until you face them.
Good luck.

Whether it is passing, having people think we are pretty or smart or funny, if we set ourselves up to be how otrhers define us, we are surely setting ourselves up to the path to suffering. The problem is not whether we pas, whether we are pretty, or smart, or funny, it is that we place so much importance on it. Let go, be yourself, concentrate on loving yourself and easing the suffering of others.

The self conscious mind will suffer.

Posted on: August 11, 2007, 07:51:28 AM

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Quote from: Rachael on August 10, 2007, 07:55:31 PM
heh, i dont think i pass as androgynous, or that that takes much effort tbh, I guess if i play this game long enough, hrt will make me un readable, as its already steaming towards this paticular port. maybe the waiting game is win?

R

My belief is that virtually no one is unreadable, I refuse to get into a discussion about it because most (especially Westerners) are not able to understand my concepts, but regardless, as I said, those who set up themselves up to give the power of contentment to people they encounter in day to lday ife, people they do not even know, are setting themselves up for a lifetime of suffering.

QuoteSo, am I to assume your are following this to a T in your daily life?

You can be assured that I strive to do so in my every conscious moment. Not only that, it goes to the core of how I attempt.to live my life.

QuoteI don't want to say that NO ONE is completely passable since...

Nor would I, I said virtually unreadable. So there could be an exception, the term "unreadable" really sets an impossible standard. I will not be drawn into defending beliefs that have been formed after much careful thought and can't be understood by most people, I have very strong intuitive skills that have been proven to be accurate time and time again. I will say that if one is trans and the thought even crosses ones mind that she is trans, there is someone, some where, sometime who can "read" her. I have worked with women who were in the deepest stealth mode that is conceivable that I have clocked. Luckily, I am not the type to betray confidences.

I concur with the bulk of what you have to say, Gina, especially that Rachel is cute and that time is on her side OTOH based more on what she says than her avatar, I can't see her in a prom dress. If she goes femme, I see her more as Goth, perhaps, or some out there alternative look, she's got a lot going for her but setting herself to constantly let every passerby define her and wanting to achieve "unreadabilty" is a recipe for failure.

Gosh, even the most passable transwoman I have ever seen on a mainstream show (Jessica Lam) on Larry King last night could be clocked by the discerning because of her voice (even though it was very, very good!)

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
Im starting to fall out of my *supposed* full time ego bubble, im really not, and its depressing me. I pass fine, i mean, i can see i do, others do. but i have this niggling worry, that ill get read instantlyif i go out, its so depressing. i mean, ive legally changed my name, and i use it, my voice is naturally female now, so no avoiding that, and i have obvious breasts and a female figure, but i CANT for the life of me  bring myself to wear obviously female clothes in public, it scares me to death, jeans and a hoodie yes, but its still scary as hell,i constantly worry whenever i go out, its depressing. is there ANY way i can recover some self confidence? its starting to wreck my life....

R

I think your right Rachael, You sound like me. Wear what feels comfortable at the moment and don't worry about pushing the boat out........I rarely wear skirts to the pub (only a few times in a short denim one) and I mostly wear jeans and slightly feminine tops like the purple one I wore last week (see my pic).

If you dress down a bit it works and highlights your feminity....more like a white dot on a black background......I've seen a lot of TS's who go overboard and are read.....

The jeans are fine but a hoodie in this weather......you must be sweating...lol.....try a fem plain T shirt with a sweetheart neckline and then work up your confidence towards the other stuff..

mellissa: youve not met many trans people then i assume, as most who pass flawlessly, rarely stay in the community. I know its possible, i know two of them. shes tall, but thats it, and its what im aiming for, well, atleast passing well enough for non trans people to even think about it. ive had 'what? no way!'s when my housemate accidentally told her bf, he had no clue about me ><
and yeah, goth is sorta me
Berliegh: if i do that, its obvious. unless i wear a jacket too. as any teeshirt on me is usually fairly formfitting, and my boobs aint exactly small ><

R

Melissa, maybe thinking somebody is trans, and being sure is not the same thing. If everybody you think is trans is then confirmed as trans (by asking or other means), then that's something else. For my case, my figure and face is very very passable, but because I'm 6 foot tall I'll get people wondering if I'm man or women anyway from afar once in a while (once a month lately), where my height stands out, and my facial features don't help much (most time it happens outside and when someone approaches me from the back). Inside, in closer quarter, in doesn't happen.

Anyway, I'm sure Racheal's clockable by maybe 1%, and then they may not be sure (like in my case). That should be quite enough to feel secure enough to wear a T shirt in public without fear.

Quote from: Keira on August 11, 2007, 05:08:53 PM
Melissa, maybe thinking somebody is trans, and being sure is not the same thing. If everybody you think is trans is then confirmed as trans (by asking or other means), then that's something else. For my case, my figure and face is very very passable, but because I'm 6 foot tall I'll get people wondering if I'm man or women anyway from afar once in a while (once a month lately), where my height stands out, and my facial features don't help much (most time it happens outside and when someone approaches me from the back). Inside, in closer quarter, in doesn't happen.

Anyway, I'm sure Racheal's clockable by maybe 1%, and then they may not be sure (like in my case). That should be quite enough to feel secure enough to wear a T shirt in public without fear.

Keira, that is actually perfectly normal for tall GGs. There are ftms with high voices, ultra curvy bods, who are mistaken for men until somebody looks closer at them, due solely to their height.
My step sis is 5'9 and she gets the looks. It's just something tall women have to deal with.
Though I know it's harder for Ts women than GGs, cause you're hoping they don't notice something that ends up getting you read.

Quote from: Rachael on August 09, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
Im starting to fall out of my *supposed* full time ego bubble, im really not, and its depressing me. I pass fine, i mean, i can see i do, others do. but i have this niggling worry, that ill get read instantly if i go out, its so depressing

R, i've only been on HRT for 1 week, so i still only pass as an adrogyne.

but i try to go to a Trans or GBLT club every week, and girl-dance my head off.

it's good to be oot & aboot, in your girl clothes (whatever they may be) to be in a safe place, with other peeps like yourself

and girl-dancing is really, really, really fun.

-ell 

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on August 11, 2007, 07:54:16 PM

Quote from: Ell on August 11, 2007, 07:48:33 PM
R, i've only been on HRT for 1 week, so i still only pass as an adrogyne.

but i try to go to a Trans or GBLT club every week, and girl-dance my head off.

it's good to be oot & aboot, in your girl clothes (whatever they may be) to be in a safe place, with other peeps like yourself

and girl-dancing is really, really, really fun.

youre lucky there is like no way to do that where i am 

wha??  there should theoretically be a Trans or GLBT club within 50 miles of anywhere in the U.S.  or, at least, as Karen says, a GL club, nevermind the B or the T...  when you show up, you make it GLBT.

Quote from: Rachael on August 11, 2007, 02:31:46 PM
mellissa: youve not met many trans people then i assume, as most who pass flawlessly, rarely stay in the community. I know its possible, i know two of them. shes tall, but thats it, and its what im aiming for, well, atleast passing well enough for non trans people to even think about it. ive had 'what? no way!'s when my housemate accidentally told her bf...
an<

R

I live in an area with 8 million people. I am not going to suckered into an argument about my truth. Passing flawlessly means one thing to you and quite another thing to me. I have thirty years of life experience over you and many people here. (Of course, that means nothing to the self-absorbed Gen Ms and Xs) Please don't question my truths. My truths are my truths, not yours. People's perceptive abilities vary greatly, even before my FFS, I had lots of "No way" experiences while I could have clocked myself a mile away. Now even though there is no such thing as unreadability, it doesn't matter. Angst over passing is the number one cause of suffering among trans people and even if you achieve this delusional goal, you will start craving for yet another delusion. It's all just one vicious cycle of suffering and bad karma. Self-conscious cravings can lead to nothing but suffering. Try finding an unpassable transperson and make her think she passes, that is more productive than self-absorption.

Posted on: August 11, 2007, 09:29:57 PM

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Quote from: Keira on August 11, 2007, 05:08:53 PM
Melissa, maybe thinking somebody is trans, and being sure is not the same thing. If everybody you think is trans is then confirmed as trans (by asking or other means), then that's something else. For my case, my figure and face is very very passable, but because I'm 6 foot tall I'll get people wondering if I'm man or women anyway from afar once in a while (once a month lately), where my height stands out, and my facial features don't help much (most time it happens outside and when someone approaches me from the back). Inside, in closer quarter, in doesn't happen.

Anyway, I'm sure Racheal's clockable by maybe 1%, and then they may not be sure (like in my case). That should be quite enough to feel secure enough to wear a T shirt in public without fear.

The point is that focusing all this energy on passing equals giving up one's power to strangers. Anyway, talking about passing on trans forums reaches a point of futility after awhile and I think that point has been reached as far as what I have to say on the subject. I can only try to use my little bit of wisdom to guide people toward the right path. I cannot force right-mindedness on those whose ego will not allow it.

erm, well to me, being seen as nothing but female is what i need. so its a big issue to me.
and how dare you suggest because your older, your wiser. and that simply because you could clock yourself (most can btw) that you can clock anyone. Also, convinceing an unpassable m2f they pass is NOT better. its forceing them into the bubbleworld that is so dangerous. if anything, helping them Actually pass, is more helpful...

I was thinking something tonight, why not make this into a game? i mean, while i was working tonight, i was dressed androgynously (long sleeve tee, baggy jeans, and bound breasts, but with feminine hair, and nail polish, and the funny looks got amuseing to a point. If i can make myself see this as a game, maybe i can boost my confidence and almost 'trick' myself into doing it? once i can, i wont need to pretend anymore, and it will be? or not

R

Quote from: Rachael on August 12, 2007, 01:01:24 AM

I was thinking something tonight, why not make this into a game? i mean, while i was working tonight, i was dressed androgynously (long sleeve tee, baggy jeans, and bound breasts, but with feminine hair, and nail polish, and the funny looks got amuseing to a point. If i can make myself see this as a game, maybe i can boost my confidence and almost 'trick' myself into doing it? once i can, i wont need to pretend anymore, and it will be? or not

R

Dont ever treat this as a game Rachael, this is real life and serious stuff, you need to present Female, the more you play at this the more confused people are going to get. Your safety is of upmost importance.

Find the courage you need to do this, dig deep into the paranoia and park it in a place in your brain where it is not playing tricks on yourself or other people.

You need to get on with being the full time girl you are, dont spend the rest of your transition being scared of what other people think or what you think they are thinking.

Develop the "Dont give a ->-bleeped-<- " attitude I know you have when it comes to your public perception, unless you do the monsters in your mind will always be around the next corner to haunt you.

This is not a game for sure.

Buffy

i know its not a game, but i meant in terms of visualising it as such, when i play games, i tend to want to win or play. i dont see transition as a game, im just searching to find ways that i could get past the fear... turning it inside out. Im grasping at straws i guess, it just worrys me so much, why am i so afraid of being seen as trans?

R

Rachael,

All fears have to be faced and confronted otherwise they cannot be overcome.

If you wish to go out and remain in an androgynous state, that is of course your choice, but the key thing about RLE is to present in public and sociably as a woman, which does not include binding your chest and wearing overly gender neutral clothes.

All of us have faced the fear in early transition of being read, not being passable, ridiculed and indeed embarressed in public places as people see us as men dressed as women. We struggle with our voice and mannerisms..... BUT keep going out as it is what we truly want and HAVE to do as part of the process, wether society sees us as men, women or transsexuals.

I know of people who have been in transition, gone to Charring Cross and changed into Womens Clothes to go to their appointment, because they could not face the prospect of being embarresed out in Public. That is wrong and they not only decieve the therapists but themselves.

If you truly want to transition, become a woman, you have to cross this bridge, by making that leap of faith. As I said I know you have not had therapy, counselloring that will be an important step. living 24/7 is a pre-requirement to any kind of surgery, hiding from yourself (and society) because you have a fear of being labelled Transsexual has to be overcome to reach that final goal.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Buffy

to be honest, im not in RLE, of any kind, as i dont have anything to oficiate it or any therapist.
however, i do live as a female day in. abeit, an androgynous one. i have friends that only know me as female. one of my housemates didnt know for 2 weeks of living with him before i came out to him. I bound my chest at work mainly, because i work in a highly public job (bar work) and its too scary and too much too soon to present overtly female. otherwise, i just wear baggy hoodies. Its gettign to a point where i cant hide this however. my hips, breats, bum, etc are makeing themselves known. and i just have too much on my plate to deal with right now to deal with extra stress, im trying to survive, to stabalise myself as independant now that i have no parents or family to help me and support me financially and emotionally. anyway, is it not the woman that makes the clothes?

heck, if i cant throw on a skirt and blouse i must not be a transexual if i dont want it bad enough to not care....

R

Quote from: Rachael on August 12, 2007, 05:11:13 AM
to be honest, im not in RLE, of any kind, as i dont have anything to oficiate it or any therapist.
however, i do live as a female day in. abeit, an androgynous one. i have friends that only know me as female. one of my housemates didnt know for 2 weeks of living with him before i came out to him. I bound my chest at work mainly, because i work in a highly public job (bar work) and its too scary and too much too soon to present overtly female. otherwise, i just wear baggy hoodies. Its gettign to a point where i cant hide this however. my hips, breats, bum, etc are makeing themselves known. and i just have too much on my plate to deal with right now to deal with extra stress, im trying to survive, to stabalise myself as independant now that i have no parents or family to help me and support me financially and emotionally. anyway, is it not the woman that makes the clothes?

heck, if i cant throw on a skirt and blouse i must not be a transexual if i dont want it bad enough to not care....

R

Rachael,

Hopefully you know by now that I dont subscribe to the skirt and flowery blouse brigade, that is not an issue with me and obviously not an issue with you.

I think you have summed up your problems above, you are doing this outside of the recognised system, you have no professional help, you have not had any therapy, I guess you have not had an official sign off for HRT from a recognised Gender Physchiatrist.

As well as the above you have deep issues with your family, your university education, how to support yourself, which again you need help and support / counselloring for these issues.

No one is saying that you are not transsexual, but I feel with the instability and issues you currently have in your life, some that are not within your control, you may have taken on far to many things and no wonder you are stressed.

You do need help, your PCT can arrange counselloring (I did this for my issues with my family) and I am sure Sheffield University have a Student health scheme.

It is not a question of whether you are transsexual and should be transitioning. It is trying to do this outside of the recognized system and with the issues you currently are facing, those are deep issues that need resolving for both your mental and physical welfare.

Buffy

Quote from: Rachael link=topic=17522.msg136301#msg136301
Berliegh: if i do that, its obvious. unless i wear a jacket too. as any teeshirt on me is usually fairly formfitting, and my boobs aint exactly small ><

R

Hi Rachael..........I thought a white or black plain coloured girls T shirt would be fine if you don't want to be too adventerous with your clothing at the moment. You can also wear jeans and trainers.......I don't know if you carry a bag or not.....I have a small one with a long strap which looks fairly casual. When I originally started off I had a nike bag which is a good idea and is fairly androgenous....

I personally think you look female in your pic and don't think you need to worry too much..

I know how you feel and you want to retain credability until you feel you are ready to take things further.....



Posted on: August 12, 2007, 08:09:18 AM

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Quote from: Buffy on August 12, 2007, 05:01:34 AM
Rachael,

I know of people who have been in transition, gone to Charing Cross and changed into Womens Clothes to go to their appointment, because they could not face the prospect of being embarresed out in Public. That is wrong and they not only decieve the therapists but themselves.

Buffy

I've seen that going on Buffy, guys changing in the toilets and unfortunitely those are the people put forward for Gender Re-assignment surgery......

Some of us are long term gender dysphoria, abide by the rules, HBSOC protocols, live RLT for over 5 years.......and still get screwed over by the NHS system...