Hello all,

This is a sensitive topic, so leave the thread if you think it will be too triggering for you.

I'm sorry for a controversial and triggering topic, but I really need some advice.  Even though I am trans and know there is nothing wrong with that, I can't help but feel ashamed and disgusted for it.  Let's be honest, most people hate us or think we are freaks.  While there are people who are understanding or totally accepting of the us, they are few and far between.  Even some peoplle that are trans themselves dislike and judge other trans people.  It's just the way of the world.  On here, I'm just a screen name and avatar, not a person with my own individual experience and feelings.  And in the world, I will eventually just be a "->-bleeped-<-" (forgive me for the term, but this is how some people see us) without any distinctions about who I am as a person and how I behave in the world. This kills me.  It makes me hate myself for being something I have no control over.  If I could have avoided this, I would have.  Simple enough. However, I don't feel I can.  It will always be part of who I am, no matter how much I try to erase it.  And that's why I put so much stock into passing.  Because if I don't pass 100 percent and someone knows I'm trans, I know they will think terrible things about me without even knowing who I am and my actions in my life.  This is really painful.  Yet it goes beyond that too.  Even if I do pass and no one thinks of me as trans but a normal woman, I'll have to know that deep in my heart those very people hate and despise who I am.  They will have an image of me based on omission of fact.  If they knew, they will judge and hate.  And because I really require approval and validation from others, I will hate myself in turn.  Of course, hiding this fact makes it easier to cope by allowing me to live as me without being judged every second; however, knowing that others can't stand what I am and think terrible things really really upsets me.  This kind of thing makes me even afraid to socialize with other trans people and admit that I am trans in a supportive environment.  Seriously, I even panic in support groups.  It's hard for me to deal with it.  I just want to erase it.  Like transition and then go stealth and forget it ever was a part of me.  Yet, I realize this a problem I need to overcome.  Therefore, I really would like to ask people here for some help and suggestions.  Was there anything that helped you get over your inner transphobia and self hatred?  To someone in my situation, what would you recommend to help them get over this?  I go to therapy, been trying to go to support groups, and actively participate here, but it hasn't gone away.  I'm at a loss, so any suggestions would be appreciated. 

And sorry for any triggering or hurtful impact this thread could have had on others.  I may hate the fact that I am trans and feel ashamed, but that doesn't mean anyone should feel the same way. 

I had this very same issue. Before I recognized my own transgender, I thought transwomen were pathetic and pitiable. Perhaps that was partially due to the fact that I knew deep down why they would do it, and I had a "there but for the grace..." reaction. I.e. if I ever lost control of my desires to be a woman, I'll end up looking like them.

This is really hard.

It helps me to focus on what I've gained:
* I've done something very hard: To become a woman after being a man for more than 50 years.
* I understand the differences between the sexes in ways that no one does who hasn't transitioned.
* There are thousands less fortunate than I. Who don't have the confidence or financial resources to have a smooth transition the way I have. Or who live in areas where hate makes transitioning problematic (or dangerous). I can help them by getting involved in outreach and social change.
* I'm D*mn hot. Don't have much of a face, but love my body.
* Also helps to think about Lana Wachowski, Lynn Conway, Jennifer Finney Boylan, Susan Larson, Billy Tipton, Kristin Beck, and other accomplished, intelligent, and impressive trans people.

All of these helps me like myself a bit better. Good luck. I hope this helps.

I got over trying to get over it. I'm never going to like being trans and once I think I can I'm probably gonna try to be a boy again. Maybe you are just in denial. I always tried to tell myself positive things about trans stuff but fundamentally I just don't and can't want to be this. It's a prison..and being stealth is even more so... I have always been stealth IRL and never having the experience of being publicly trans, never clocked or outed or discriminated against made it that much more terrifying, like you can lose your whole life if you get outed. Like I had to get a sorta invasive medical test yesterday and I sat there angsting over whether or not I was gonna have to out myself to a Dr or nurse or office staff, how much clothing I was gonna have to remove, would we get into a conversation about my gender in front of a busy waiting room etc. Angsting over all these forms that didnt have a place for my specific issues. Like with lab Corp I had to spell out my birth name in earshot of everyone. People can't usually comprehend that I am trans so I am lucky with that but the possibilities are still torture. In the end I just put F on my papers again and covered everything up like always. Its so freaking stupid to live like this. Being a femme cis boy would be soo much better if I could pass. Transition isn't the only option. Being young with no history, dependent, suffering from emotional disorders all while trans is such a ridiculous subhuman status. Nothing is worth it ....

I understand where you're coming from. I used to worry about what other people thought, even if it was just me doing the "thinking" for them. Thing is, you can't really know what someone is thinking unless they tell you...and to be honest, often not even then because they either don't really know or can't say.

At a guess you're spot on about your inner transphobia, you appear to be suffering shame about being who you are and are presuming everyone thinks exactly the same and that it's all focused like a laser beam on you when the only person doing that to you is you. Sure there are haters out there, people who think transgender people are "mentally ill", "abominations" or "possessed by demons" and other such rubbish, personally I regard them as the ones with mental health issues. The one thing that really helped me stop my own internalised transphobia was to acknowledge I had it. It's amazing how much better I felt about myself and other trans people when I decided to reject it.

Have you ever had someone accuse you of thinking something that was furtherest from your mind? It's pretty disconcerting - how did they reach that conclusion? I don't like it when it's done to me so I try to avoid pushing it on to other people, believing I know what people think based on a look, a facial expression, a gesture, a comment when in reality I have no idea. I had no business poking around in other people's minds and even less right to be making up their thoughts for them. I'm still guilty of it but nowhere near as much as I used to be and, combined with dropping the internalised transphobia, it means I'm burning up less mental energy making up negative stories about myself to stick inside their "thoughts".

As for worrying about what other people think - I was once told it was none of my business what other people thought about me. It was a disconcerting statement but I realised if I considered it true that it was nobody's business what I thought, then clearly the reverse was true too. It was more liberating than you can imagine.

Hugs, Grace

I have learned to accept that I am unlike most of the people I meet in life and that many of them would find me somewhat creepy (see vid at end) because I'm trans. Being born in the 1950s didn't help matters much; that, and having grown up in a small industrial town...
I went through a period of self-loathing. Eventually, I got over it. I connected with Ellie and began the process of putting the guy whose body I occupy to sleep. I had to. It's a paradoxical dichotomy- I hate being trans, I love being Ellie. Go figure Anyways, as I let Ellie out more (the person, the spirit, not Mr. Dressup) and grew to love her, the self-hatred diminished. The past year has been especially good. I still have negative feelings about myself, but it's not because I'm trans, it's because I still feel the need to conceal that fact. I'm out only to a handful of people. That circle will be widening

Quote from: learningtolive on February 21, 2014, 01:17:58 PM
Let's be honest, most people hate us or think we are freaks.  While there are people who are understanding or totally accepting of the us, they are few and far between.

Respectfully, I disagree. I realize there are many out there who vehemently oppose who we are and what we stand for, but I think there's easily just as many if not more out there who respect one's right to forge their own path towards personal happiness.

QuoteEven some peoplle that are trans themselves dislike and judge other trans people.  It's just the way of the world.

Yes, unfortunately I think that the need to judge one another or comparing oneself against another is often hard-wired into us. It can be overcome though and I think most people try to correct their behavior when they realize when they've made an unfair or hurtful judgement.

QuoteOn here, I'm just a screen name and avatar, not a person with my own individual experience and feelings.  And in the world, I will eventually just be a "->-bleeped-<-" (forgive me for the term, but this is how some people see us) without any distinctions about who I am as a person and how I behave in the world.

I don't think anyone here is so callous as to reduce the others here to screen names and avatars. I've always felt like I've been treated as a real person here. But as for your fears about how the world will see you. I've shared those fears at times. I think a part of me still does. But the most vocal part of me is saying "Who gives a #&@$ what others think?!" If they want to shame and hate me for who I am then that's a problem reflecting on their character. And that hate and shame belongs to them, I don't have to carry it with me. I will choose to surround myself with people who get it, and who are supportive of who I am, which is so much more than just being trans*. I know these people exist because I already have some of them in my life. I think if you look around you will realize you do too.

QuoteThis kills me.  It makes me hate myself for being something I have no control over.  If I could have avoided this, I would have.  Simple enough. However, I don't feel I can.  It will always be part of who I am, no matter how much I try to erase it.  And that's why I put so much stock into passing.  Because if I don't pass 100 percent and someone knows I'm trans, I know they will think terrible things about me without even knowing who I am and my actions in my life.  This is really painful.  Yet it goes beyond that too.  Even if I do pass and no one thinks of me as trans but a normal woman, I'll have to know that deep in my heart those very people hate and despise who I am.  They will have an image of me based on omission of fact.  If they knew, they will judge and hate.  And because I really require approval and validation from others, I will hate myself in turn.

I get this. I too hope to pass, I probably even have an unrealistic expectation of how I want to turn out. I can't decide if this is to satiate my own sarcissistic desires or if it's because I just don't want to deal with crap snap judgements from total strangers. You are right though, being trans or not is something you have no control over. It is very painful, it sucks beyond all suckitude. I almost wish everyone in the world had to know what it was like to be trans without having a practical knowledge that comes from actually being trans. I'm sure there would be a lot more empathy for us out there in such a case. But that is a fantasy. You can't force others to be understanding and be accepting.

I think not passing is a plausible future that one must plan for if they want to transition. They need to take steps dealing with it emotionally first and coming to terms with and accepting it as that may be their reality.

Quote...I really would like to ask people here for some help and suggestions.  Was there anything that helped you get over your inner transphobia and self hatred?  To someone in my situation, what would you recommend to help them get over this?  I go to therapy, been trying to go to support groups, and actively participate here, but it hasn't gone away.  I'm at a loss, so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Well, in response I would say that I think one must first analyze where that inner transphobia and hatred stems from. For me, a lot of it stemmed from the belief system I was raised into (Mormon). I had spent the better part of 38 years fighting who I am because I believed it was morally wrong and shameful. In my situation freedom from my inner transphobia came from freedom from the hurtful beliefs I had held for so long. It was a painful process questioning my religion, especially when I realized I no longer believed in it. To have my entire belief system come crashing down at the same time I learned to accept myself for being transgender and that I wanted to transition... it was all a bit much.

Fortunately I have a great therapist that has helped me decompress and sort through all those jumbled feelings. The good thing about having my belief system come crashing down is that I can now rebuild it. I still have many of the same values I held dear before. Love, compassion, being non-judgmental (funny how I thought I was this way before), etc. I can also clearly see that the shame I'd felt for so many years was not my own. That shame belonged to the belief system I was held captive by, and to those that would perpetuate the belief that one should be ashamed for being anything that conflicted with what was their perception of 'normal'. For most of my life that shame fueled my transphobia. And having let go of it has also released me from the bonds of my inner hatred.


I'm not sure if any of this is helpful for you. But I do hope you find a resolution to these feelings you are struggling with. *hugs*

Wow, so, I'm going to give you a little bit of tough love here.

Get over yourself.

Sure, there are some people out there that hate and fear trans* folks of all stripes. There are anti-LGBT bigots out there in the world. There are people that think that dancing is the gateway to hell. There are people who still think that anything that isn't white is below human.

The rest (99.9999% of the world you're likely to encounter) doesn't give a crap.

Most of what you've done is decided that being trans is awful. Sure it's not the best thing on earth but then again neither is Down's Syndrome (less common), Parkinsons (also less common), MS, etc. etc. etc. You've decided that everyone you'll meet thinks that you're a freak. This isn't the case. You're different and if they know that you're trans*, they'll know that. Most people are curious. Most people are compassionate. Most women watch Oprah (no, really) and they've seen the array of all kinds of trans chicks.

You'll find if you actually take the steps to be yourself out in the world that most people don't care. That said, if you want an easier time of it, presentation and presentability is probably going to grease the skids, such as it were, but if not, you'll just be odd. Provided that you're not leering at the other chicks in the restroom, making passes at every half-way-decent looking person who you find attractive, or being creepy™, you'll just be different. If you don't want to be different, please go back to my original point to see where I stand on that issue.

The best advice I've ever gotten from anyone is to 'assume positive intent'. This means, that, unless someone actually comes out and says "WOW, YOU ARE SUCH A FREAK!!!", assume that the words coming out of their mouth are the truth. It's pretty arrogant to think that you've got the sort of omniscience that allows you to know what everyone is thinking. Try some perspective and humility with a good dose of trust. If you run into someone who treats you poorly, make a note of that person and DON'T APPLY THE EXPERIENCE TO ANYONE ELSE.

You know what they say about ASSumptions, don't you?

Also, generalizations (everyone thinks trans people are...) are the mother of all ****ups.

Peace out.

P.S. - I could say more about self-empowerment, realizing that you're a unique snowflake, or just trying to get you in the "I'm right and the hell with everyone else" mindset that you've got to develop being openly trans like myself but, after almost 3,000 comments and no real progress in your self-confidence, I'll just point out that these things are there and that you really need to focus on living life instead of running from it because of being afraid of everything.

But, in my experience, most people I know are accepting of trans* people. I know many straight males who are totally secure with their sexuality who like me as a friend even though they know I'm going to transition. In fact, I know a few straight guys who have called me beautiful or gorgeous and said they would date me if I was a girl, based off a badly photoshopped picture of me with a wig on, so yeah. Personality is truly what makes a person as well. Sure, for a lot of people its weird, but it's always a nice surprise when I come out to people as transgendered (when I express myself online as female) and they tell me that they don't mind, or that they're bi, or that they still love me and will learn to accept it. That's a huge step over thinking I'm a freak.

I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, but from what people have told me and my own confidence in how I do and will look, feel and act...I will have no trouble passing and probably won't ever be mistaken for a male after my transition, so I doubt people will ever consider me a freak because I'll go stealth. I don't think I'll have to deal with much hate or doubt.

However, society is becoming increasingly more tolerant and accepting. More and more people are coming out of their 'straight' shells to identify with their true sexualities and genders, and love is slowly, slowly becoming more fluid. So the future for everyone is bright because at this point, there's almost always somebody for everybody who wants to love, and can love themselves.

Also, we're lucky the Internet exists. This generation and future generations are becoming desensitized to life because of the amount of variety the world has to offer. Before the Internet, a lot of people were oblivious to things, and some still are, but allowing people to learn through online-based research and just incidental findings is amazing and has helped the trans* community a lot, I'd say. I wouldn't have found a quarter of the information I got from this website alone from a book or a TV show, which happened to be the biggest things before the Internet, so if anything at least I can attest to the world becoming increasingly better. At least in my own knowledge, experience and opinion.

The future is beautiful and not as bleak as you think it is.

One of the best days of my life came about a year ago, when I was finally able to stop caring about what other people might think of me.   Yes, there are haters out there.  Am I going to allow them to wreck my day or make me want to stay home?  Hell no.  I refuse to let the dregs of humanity win.

Self hatred and inner transphobia are something you actually have control over, and they are unfortunately a by-product of you allowing the ignorami of the world to do damage your psyche.

You are uniquely you, and you don't need to conform to someone else's rules just to appease the mouth breathers.  Never make excuses or apologize for who you truly are inside.   You have a limited time in this lifetime to pack in as much happiness as you can before you assume room temperature, so please forget about what the lower life forms might think.  You weren't going to hang out with them anyway.

I am 100% in the same situation as you. To cope with this is only PASSABILITY and be on SUPER DUPER STEALTH MODE. Nothing more nothing less.

I dont think people hate trans, they think trans people are misunderstood and thats why they hate us. Because what does it means to be transgender, it could mean different things to different people.

Quote from: Ms Grace on February 21, 2014, 02:18:15 PM
I understand where you're coming from. I used to worry about what other people thought, even if it was just me doing the "thinking" for them. Thing is, you can't really know what someone is thinking unless they tell you...and to be honest, often not even then because they either don't really know or can't say.

At a guess you're spot on about your inner transphobia, you appear to be suffering shame about being who you are and are presuming everyone thinks exactly the same and that it's all focused like a laser beam on you when the only person doing that to you is you. Sure there are haters out there, people who think transgender people are "mentally ill", "abominations" or "possessed by demons" and other such rubbish, personally I regard them as the ones with mental health issues. The one thing that really helped me stop my own internalised transphobia was to acknowledge I had it. It's amazing how much better I felt about myself and other trans people when I decided to reject it.

Have you ever had someone accuse you of thinking something that was furtherest from your mind? It's pretty disconcerting - how did they reach that conclusion? I don't like it when it's done to me so I try to avoid pushing it on to other people, believing I know what people think based on a look, a facial expression, a gesture, a comment when in reality I have no idea. I had no business poking around in other people's minds and even less right to be making up their thoughts for them. I'm still guilty of it but nowhere near as much as I used to be and, combined with dropping the internalised transphobia, it means I'm burning up less mental energy making up negative stories about myself to stick inside their "thoughts".

As for worrying about what other people think - I was once told it was none of my business what other people thought about me. It was a disconcerting statement but I realised if I considered it true that it was nobody's business what I thought, then clearly the reverse was true too. It was more liberating than you can imagine.

Hugs, Grace

People do this all the time and I realise that it takes confidence not to worry what other people think. LIke all the time i used to worry what I said or what other people think of me. I know it sounds a bit antisocial. But i think too its the only way to get over being trans. Not everyone will agree what we do.

Quote from: suzifrommd on February 21, 2014, 01:45:30 PM
I had this very same issue. Before I recognized my own transgender, I thought transwomen were pathetic and pitiable. Perhaps that was partially due to the fact that I knew deep down why they would do it, and I had a "there but for the grace..." reaction. I.e. if I ever lost control of my desires to be a woman, I'll end up looking like them.

This is really hard.

It helps me to focus on what I've gained:
* I've done something very hard: To become a woman after being a man for more than 50 years.
* I understand the differences between the sexes in ways that no one does who hasn't transitioned.
* There are thousands less fortunate than I. Who don't have the confidence or financial resources to have a smooth transition the way I have. Or who live in areas where hate makes transitioning problematic (or dangerous). I can help them by getting involved in outreach and social change.
* I'm D*mn hot. Don't have much of a face, but love my body.
* Also helps to think about Lana Wachowski, Lynn Conway, Jennifer Finney Boylan, Susan Larson, Billy Tipton, Kristin Beck, and other accomplished, intelligent, and impressive trans people.

All of these helps me like myself a bit better. Good luck. I hope this helps.

Yeah, I have very little self confidence which is probably my big issue.  While it's a bit sad, I feel like I am pretty much damaged goods and trying to get over internal drama which been taking it's toll on me and left me with a broken self esteem.  Plus, I have very little real life support to help me through everything, more opposition than anything.  A lot of you are very strong and independent people.  You guys know how to believe in yourself.  This is something that's a bit foreign to me, but I want it to become just that. Now, I am overcoming some of this to a degree and I've come a long way from where I started, but it's still hard.  This is why my therapist has me working on becoming self reliant on an emotional basis and learning to not care about others.  So, it's not like I'm not trying to develop some confidence and self esteem.  I am..... it's just difficult.

Any tips on how you got to that confident point?

Then there is still the financial problem which has left me in limbo waiting on a particular potential job and searching for a new one in the event that it doesn't pan out. And without money coming in, it's hard, though I saved up enough to make it through May-June while I am job hunting.

Quote from: Ms Grace on February 21, 2014, 02:18:15 PM
I understand where you're coming from. I used to worry about what other people thought, even if it was just me doing the "thinking" for them. Thing is, you can't really know what someone is thinking unless they tell you...and to be honest, often not even then because they either don't really know or can't say.

At a guess you're spot on about your inner transphobia, you appear to be suffering shame about being who you are and are presuming everyone thinks exactly the same and that it's all focused like a laser beam on you when the only person doing that to you is you. Sure there are haters out there, people who think transgender people are "mentally ill", "abominations" or "possessed by demons" and other such rubbish, personally I regard them as the ones with mental health issues. The one thing that really helped me stop my own internalised transphobia was to acknowledge I had it. It's amazing how much better I felt about myself and other trans people when I decided to reject it.

Have you ever had someone accuse you of thinking something that was furtherest from your mind? It's pretty disconcerting - how did they reach that conclusion? I don't like it when it's done to me so I try to avoid pushing it on to other people, believing I know what people think based on a look, a facial expression, a gesture, a comment when in reality I have no idea. I had no business poking around in other people's minds and even less right to be making up their thoughts for them. I'm still guilty of it but nowhere near as much as I used to be and, combined with dropping the internalised transphobia, it means I'm burning up less mental energy making up negative stories about myself to stick inside their "thoughts".

As for worrying about what other people think - I was once told it was none of my business what other people thought about me. It was a disconcerting statement but I realised if I considered it true that it was nobody's business what I thought, then clearly the reverse was true too. It was more liberating than you can imagine.

Hugs, Grace

See, I really want to believe this, but I can't connect with it as much as I wish I could. It seems to me that most people that don't pass are judged.  Maybe those who are right in their face won't say anything, but my fear is that they will laugh at them behind their backs. I've seen it before happen to other trans people.  I knew someone that was under the illusion that people either didn't know or care and behind her back people were saying things and calling her by the opposite pronouns, by the way, this is a wonderful person who didn't deserve that crap.  That's why I feel so bad about it because other people are so judgemental.  We all want to believe people like us and accept it, but that isn't always the reality.

Though you are right that we can never really know what people think and maybe my thought structure is the problem.  I usually always jump to the negative conclusion and often I find that negative assumption was wrong.  Perhaps all I need to do is ignore my instincts and stop thinking I know what's happening when I really don't. 

Quote from: sad panda on February 21, 2014, 02:11:44 PM
I got over trying to get over it. I'm never going to like being trans and once I think I can I'm probably gonna try to be a boy again. Maybe you are just in denial. I always tried to tell myself positive things about trans stuff but fundamentally I just don't and can't want to be this. It's a prison..and being stealth is even more so... I have always been stealth IRL and never having the experience of being publicly trans, never clocked or outed or discriminated against made it that much more terrifying, like you can lose your whole life if you get outed. Like I had to get a sorta invasive medical test yesterday and I sat there angsting over whether or not I was gonna have to out myself to a Dr or nurse or office staff, how much clothing I was gonna have to remove, would we get into a conversation about my gender in front of a busy waiting room etc. Angsting over all these forms that didnt have a place for my specific issues. Like with lab Corp I had to spell out my birth name in earshot of everyone. People can't usually comprehend that I am trans so I am lucky with that but the possibilities are still torture. In the end I just put F on my papers again and covered everything up like always. Its so freaking stupid to live like this. Being a femme cis boy would be soo much better if I could pass. Transition isn't the only option. Being young with no history, dependent, suffering from emotional disorders all while trans is such a ridiculous subhuman status. Nothing is worth it ....

I'm very sorry you are going through this.  In my case, it's that I don't want to go through this or be trans, yet I know I am.  In reality, being a gay cis boy would be easier for me in some respect, but it's not who I am even though I've lived it.  That feels like a prison for me.  However, I sympathize with your inner struggle about going stealth.  While I am not there, I imagine I'll be under the same constant fear once I make that attempt.  Mainly because I don't have much love for what I am and know that's true for others.  While I know there is nothing wrong with being trans, I have so much inner transphobia which makes me struggle with liking the fact that I am.  And knowing that I will always be constantly hated isn't very comforting.  I guess the solution is to stop caring.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on February 21, 2014, 02:23:27 PM
Not sure about demonic possession or mental illness, but I would be fine with "abomination". There are many sorts of them, for sure, so I can could be "cute and fluffy abomination". It is a dirty job, but somebody has to do it!

Yeah, the abomination thing sort of gets to me.  I grew up in a very catholic house and my mothers boyfriend might as well dress like the pope.  Originally when I came out my mother wanted me to talk to the church and go through some sort of conversion therapy.  I don't even want to know what her boyfriend will think once he finds out, though he's totally blind to this stuff as he has yet to figure it out. 

Quote from: EllieM on February 21, 2014, 02:51:59 PM

I have learned to accept that I am unlike most of the people I meet in life and that many of them would find me somewhat creepy (see vid at end) because I'm trans. Being born in the 1950s didn't help matters much; that, and having grown up in a small industrial town...
I went through a period of self-loathing. Eventually, I got over it. I connected with Ellie and began the process of putting the guy whose body I occupy to sleep. I had to. It's a paradoxical dichotomy- I hate being trans, I love being Ellie. Go figure Anyways, as I let Ellie out more (the person, the spirit, not Mr. Dressup) and grew to love her, the self-hatred diminished. The past year has been especially good. I still have negative feelings about myself, but it's not because I'm trans, it's because I still feel the need to conceal that fact. I'm out only to a handful of people. That circle will be widening

I suppose the lesson in this is that experience will cause the feelings to diminish and confidence to grow.  My therapist keeps telling me that I need to start exposing myself to more supportive environments and taking baby steps in supportive areas to develop some inner strength.  Maybe she is right and the more I do that the less bad I will feel.  I've been going to support groups and I'm still struggling but feeliing less bad about being trans.  Maybe I just need to do more of that and allow it to help me grow.

I'm only out to a few people, though it feels like a lot of people know or have guessed it.

@ Alaia

I do have some supportive people in my life, but not many. Obvously the rational choice would be to not care, but it's something that I'm still learning to handle and overcome.  My transphobia comes more from others, so the solution is to get over them.  All over you see people criticizing us or thinking we are freaks in some form.  If there was more of a positive social view, it wouldn't matter as much to me.  It's like being gay.  Like now that the world is more accepting, more gay people are willing to come forward; however, in the past, many preferred repressing or hiding.  I guess the logical choice would be to stop caring what others think and develop a more positive thought structure, but this takes time and work.  I'm in the process of getting there and have made progress, but sometimes it cripples me and reduces me to tears.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on February 21, 2014, 04:24:37 PM
Wow, so, I'm going to give you a little bit of tough love here.

Get over yourself.

Sure, there are some people out there that hate and fear trans* folks of all stripes. There are anti-LGBT bigots out there in the world. There are people that think that dancing is the gateway to hell. There are people who still think that anything that isn't white is below human.

The rest (99.9999% of the world you're likely to encounter) doesn't give a crap.

Most of what you've done is decided that being trans is awful. Sure it's not the best thing on earth but then again neither is Down's Syndrome (less common), Parkinsons (also less common), MS, etc. etc. etc. You've decided that everyone you'll meet thinks that you're a freak. This isn't the case. You're different and if they know that you're trans*, they'll know that. Most people are curious. Most people are compassionate. Most women watch Oprah (no, really) and they've seen the array of all kinds of trans chicks.

You'll find if you actually take the steps to be yourself out in the world that most people don't care. That said, if you want an easier time of it, presentation and presentability is probably going to grease the skids, such as it were, but if not, you'll just be odd. Provided that you're not leering at the other chicks in the restroom, making passes at every half-way-decent looking person who you find attractive, or being creepy™, you'll just be different. If you don't want to be different, please go back to my original point to see where I stand on that issue.

The best advice I've ever gotten from anyone is to 'assume positive intent'. This means, that, unless someone actually comes out and says "WOW, YOU ARE SUCH A FREAK!!!", assume that the words coming out of their mouth are the truth. It's pretty arrogant to think that you've got the sort of omniscience that allows you to know what everyone is thinking. Try some perspective and humility with a good dose of trust. If you run into someone who treats you poorly, make a note of that person and DON'T APPLY THE EXPERIENCE TO ANYONE ELSE.

You know what they say about ASSumptions, don't you?

Also, generalizations (everyone thinks trans people are...) are the mother of all ****ups.

Peace out.

P.S. - I could say more about self-empowerment, realizing that you're a unique snowflake, or just trying to get you in the "I'm right and the hell with everyone else" mindset that you've got to develop being openly trans like myself but, after almost 3,000 comments and no real progress in your self-confidence, I'll just point out that these things are there and that you really need to focus on living life instead of running from it because of being afraid of everything.

I don't mind tough love, I'm probably in need of it. Although, while it's true that I am a unique snow flake, I wouldn't say there has been no progress.  I've come out to my family and friends, some co-workers and had developed a positive work environment at the time (may be back next month). Most people have been nice, except family. I've also have been making a lot of changes to my appearance and have been on hormones for a while which is making many people wonder.  what's making me regress a bit here is that I'm coming close to the point where I would like to go full time.  I've set that point by June, but I may go for it in May if I have the resources.  This is what scares me because it's so soon and I don't know how well I will pass at that point and what that will mean for me. I know it shouldn't matter at all what others are thinking and you can't assume, but for some reason I do care.  And while it's true most assumptions can lead to faulty reasoning, I can't help but read all the anti trans things on the internet.  It's all over and it's quite prominent.  What I'm trying to do is to learn not to care that this is the case, but I can't ignore that this is how a large portion of people think.  Being stealth at least shields us from that hate.  Still, you are right that I need to develop a "who gives" attitude and that not everyone feels badly about us.  May I ask, what worked for you?  Seriously, is there any tips you would give to someone coming close to full time.

@Everyone,

If you have any suggestions on how to work on self esteem problems and develop inner confidence I really am open to it.  Believe me, I don't want to feel so damn scared all the time.

I'll get to the other posts but this one has become too long.

It is true most people are accepting, but these are the ones I fear the most! The ones that are demeaning and unaccepting, you already know how they feel, the ones who are accepting you don't know how they feel in certain situations!

This is why I prefer to be stealth....just an example at work today, they were talking about a charity event going on and joked that one of the male volunteers should wear a dress or tutu...everyone laughed and thought he should...including myself. Now take this same situation...with the fact everyone knows I am trans....would they even mention it, and if they did would it be as funny and worse yet would they all look at me when laughing....and this is among many that I know are supportive of gays and probably even trans for that matter.

Now much of this could be my own fears but I have read and seen enough that even if you are 100% accepted as trans...it doesn't mean you are 100% accepted as the gender you are now.

I've always compared it to being on a ship....everyone on the ship knows you are trans and has treated you as the women you are and with the respect anyone else deserves. The ship hits an iceberg LOL....when it comes to loading the life boats and they call for women and children to board first, they stop and tell you you'll have to wait until the women and children board first. This is how I think many people that accept trans feel....they accept us up until a time they feel they don't need to or don't want too.

I get this same feeling from some of the people that know about my transition, they are all accepting and respect me as to who I am now, but there are times.... I have a close neighbor, one of the few I talk too, they happen to be a lesbian couple...small world...but true. Just the other day one of the girls was asking if I had a roof rake (its been a brutal winter here). I told her I did not....she then mentioned that she will need to get someone to get the snow off their roof. I told her I had to get on my roof and shovel it off myself!! She didn't ask me to do hers but I think she may have if I didn't mention that I couldn't help because I wasn't feeling good....damned near killed me to do mine! I sometimes get the feeling that they are quick to ask me to help on things that a man could do better with the attitude "hell she use to be a man"

I can only imagine how I would be treated at work if everyone knew. Even now there are few men that are lazy and refuse to help anyone...especially a woman. If they knew of my past they would just assume I don't need any help since I use to be a man...the thing is I know so many women that are much stronger than me but that wouldn't even matter.

Because I am stealth (for the most part) my life is fairly boring, its pretty much the same as it was before....still have to pick up groceries, get gas, go to work......the only difference is that I am now a women, and that is fun!!If I had to do all this as a trans women...I can say it would come with much anxiety.

One of the actors in the movie "Dallas Buyers Club" Jared Letto plays a trans women. In order to understand his character he went out in public as his character....he was very passable but I am sure very apprehensive. Because of that he was noticed more as a trans women than a cis....he mentioned that he couldn't imagine getting looked at like this constantly.....to tell you the truth either could I....and for the most part most trans don't get looked at like he did, they just blend in!!!

Quote from: Just Shelly on February 21, 2014, 05:52:08 PM
It is true most people are accepting, but these are the ones I fear the most! The ones that are demeaning and unaccepting, you already know how they feel, the ones who are accepting you don't know how they feel in certain situations!

This is why I prefer to be stealth....just an example at work today, they were talking about a charity event going on and joked that one of the male volunteers should wear a dress or tutu...everyone laughed and thought he should...including myself. Now take this same situation...with the fact everyone knows I am trans....would they even mention it, and if they did would it be as funny and worse yet would they all look at me when laughing....and this is among many that I know are supportive of gays and probably even trans for that matter.

Now much of this could be my own fears but I have read and seen enough that even if you are 100% accepted as trans...it doesn't mean you are 100% accepted as the gender you are now.

I've always compared it to being on a ship....everyone on the ship knows you are trans and has treated you as the women you are and with the respect anyone else deserves. The ship hits an iceberg LOL....when it comes to loading the life boats and they call for women and children to board first, they stop and tell you you'll have to wait until the women and children board first. This is how I think many people that accept trans feel....they accept us up until a time they feel they don't need to or don't want too.

I get this same feeling from some of the people that know about my transition, they are all accepting and respect me as to who I am now, but there are times.... I have a close neighbor, one of the few I talk too, they happen to be a lesbian couple...small world...but true. Just the other day one of the girls was asking if I had a roof rake (its been a brutal winter here). I told her I did not....she then mentioned that she will need to get someone to get the snow off their roof. I told her I had to get on my roof and shovel it off myself!! She didn't ask me to do hers but I think she may have if I didn't mention that I couldn't help because I wasn't feeling good....damned near killed me to do mine! I sometimes get the feeling that they are quick to ask me to help on things that a man could do better with the attitude "hell she use to be a man"

I can only imagine how I would be treated at work if everyone knew. Even now there are few men that are lazy and refuse to help anyone...especially a woman. If they knew of my past they would just assume I don't need any help since I use to be a man...the thing is I know so many women that are much stronger than me but that wouldn't even matter.

Because I am stealth (for the most part) my life is fairly boring, its pretty much the same as it was before....still have to pick up groceries, get gas, go to work......the only difference is that I am now a women, and that is fun!!If I had to do all this as a trans women...I can say it would come with much anxiety.

One of the actors in the movie "Dallas Buyers Club" Jared Letto plays a trans women. In order to understand his character he went out in public as his character....he was very passable but I am sure very apprehensive. Because of that he was noticed more as a trans women than a cis....he mentioned that he couldn't imagine getting looked at like this constantly.....to tell you the truth either could I....and for the most part most trans don't get looked at like he did, they just blend in!!!

Quote from: Chic on February 21, 2014, 04:46:06 PM

Yeah, I could see this.  Even though I am out to people, I'm still treated like a gay guy by some.  Then again, I don't yet have the full time experience.
But, in my experience, most people I know are accepting of trans* people. I know many straight males who are totally secure with their sexuality who like me as a friend even though they know I'm going to transition. In fact, I know a few straight guys who have called me beautiful or gorgeous and said they would date me if I was a girl, based off a badly photoshopped picture of me with a wig on, so yeah. Personality is truly what makes a person as well. Sure, for a lot of people its weird, but it's always a nice surprise when I come out to people as transgendered (when I express myself online as female) and they tell me that they don't mind, or that they're bi, or that they still love me and will learn to accept it. That's a huge step over thinking I'm a freak.

I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, but from what people have told me and my own confidence in how I do and will look, feel and act...I will have no trouble passing and probably won't ever be mistaken for a male after my transition, so I doubt people will ever consider me a freak because I'll go stealth. I don't think I'll have to deal with much hate or doubt.

However, society is becoming increasingly more tolerant and accepting. More and more people are coming out of their 'straight' shells to identify with their true sexualities and genders, and love is slowly, slowly becoming more fluid. So the future for everyone is bright because at this point, there's almost always somebody for everybody who wants to love, and can love themselves.

Also, we're lucky the Internet exists. This generation and future generations are becoming desensitized to life because of the amount of variety the world has to offer. Before the Internet, a lot of people were oblivious to things, and some still are, but allowing people to learn through online-based research and just incidental findings is amazing and has helped the trans* community a lot, I'd say. I wouldn't have found a quarter of the information I got from this website alone from a book or a TV show, which happened to be the biggest things before the Internet, so if anything at least I can attest to the world becoming increasingly better. At least in my own knowledge, experience and opinion.

The future is beautiful and not as bleak as you think it is.

Yeah, it's true there are a lot of wonderful people.  Many of the people I told, besides family, were shocked that I was struggling with telling them.  Most of them thought it wasn't a big deal and very few of them were shocked.  Maybe I should just let those experiences color my perception rather than the bad ones.

Quote from: Jill F on February 21, 2014, 04:51:54 PM
One of the best days of my life came about a year ago, when I was finally able to stop caring about what other people might think of me.   Yes, there are haters out there.  Am I going to allow them to wreck my day or make me want to stay home?  Hell no.  I refuse to let the dregs of humanity win.

Self hatred and inner transphobia are something you actually have control over, and they are unfortunately a by-product of you allowing the ignorami of the world to do damage your psyche.

You are uniquely you, and you don't need to conform to someone else's rules just to appease the mouth breathers.  Never make excuses or apologize for who you truly are inside.   You have a limited time in this lifetime to pack in as much happiness as you can before you assume room temperature, so please forget about what the lower life forms might think.  You weren't going to hang out with them anyway.

May I ask you what you did to stop caring what others think? 

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on February 21, 2014, 04:57:57 PM
I am 100% in the same situation as you. To cope with this is only PASSABILITY and be on SUPER DUPER STEALTH MODE. Nothing more nothing less.

Yeah, even though passing does matter to me and is the goal, I do think others have a point.  If I only focus on that, I'll still feel this inward self hatred and lack of confidence.  Nothing wrong with stealth, but I really need to get my self esteem up and stop hiding from the fear.

Quote from: izzy on February 21, 2014, 05:48:33 PM
I dont think people hate trans, they think trans people are misunderstood and thats why they hate us. Because what does it means to be transgender, it could mean different things to different people. People do this all the time and I realise that it takes confidence not to worry what other people think. LIke all the time i used to worry what I said or what other people think of me. I know it sounds a bit antisocial. But i think too its the only way to get over being trans. Not everyone will agree what we do.

That's all true.

May I ask you what you did to stop caring what others think?

I didn't really do anything.  I simply ran out of sh%ts to give.  Worrying about something I have no control over is pointless.

Don't let the haters win by stuffing you back in your closet.  I win because if they decide to hate on me, I serve as the middle finger delivered straight to their face.  I'm here, beyond queer, and if you don't like it, the more power to me.

QuoteI'll just point out that these things are there and that you really need to focus on living life instead of running from it because of being afraid of everything.

Right on Victoria !!!!!!!


I lived in fear of what others would say or think of me my whole life. In these moments of deep introspection, I would cry and ask myself why I was born this way and why am I burdened with this. While I was in these deep depressions I would think of myself as an abomination and contemplate ending the misery. I needed to learn to love myself before I could really open up and be who I really am. That day came when I CAME OUT. I found a therapist and with the first openly honest words about myself face to face with another human being I told her that I am transgender and I needed to transition. I was deeply petrified as I never openly told anyone that before, (online does not count). She was so very compassionate and offered to help me. I have since come out to my family and belong to a trans support group focussed on transition. I feel the walls I built up around me over the years crumbling down, and the true me is finally able to show through. It is as though I was able to breath the wonderful scents, see the magical colours, and feel life for the very first time. I still question why I am trans and wish I was not, but I am so focused on living now that I don't give it as much thought.

Am I scared of my future, my career, and what others will think of me ? hell yes !! Will I let that rule my life and force me to crawl back into my hidden cave of denial ? Hell no  !!!

The only way to conquer fear is to face it.  I don't know who said that but my gosh it is sooo true.


Hugs
xxxx

I've been this way all my life. I was aware of the word transgender , but never thought about it too much . I just knew I had this total other self being dragged along. this hidden self caused so many problems with relationships because I was so afraid people would see through the cover. I don't know why I'm like this , but its such a part of me I really can't get rid of. I just came to the point of excepting it and seeing what happens.

Quote from: learningtolive on February 21, 2014, 05:51:08 PM
I don't mind tough love, I'm probably in need of it. Although, while it's true that I am a unique snow flake, I wouldn't say there has been no progress.  I've come out to my family and friends, some co-workers and had developed a positive work environment at the time (may be back next month). Most people have been nice, except family. I've also have been making a lot of changes to my appearance and have been on hormones for a while which is making many people wonder.  what's making me regress a bit here is that I'm coming close to the point where I would like to go full time.  I've set that point by June, but I may go for it in May if I have the resources.  This is what scares me because it's so soon and I don't know how well I will pass at that point and what that will mean for me. I know it shouldn't matter at all what others are thinking and you can't assume, but for some reason I do care.  And while it's true most assumptions can lead to faulty reasoning, I can't help but read all the anti trans things on the internet.  It's all over and it's quite prominent.  What I'm trying to do is to learn not to care that this is the case, but I can't ignore that this is how a large portion of people think.  Being stealth at least shields us from that hate.  Still, you are right that I need to develop a "who gives" attitude and that not everyone feels badly about us.  May I ask, what worked for you?  Seriously, is there any tips you would give to someone coming close to full time.

H'okay.

So, yay forward progress and all that but your insecurities are the main issue at hand. Internalized transphobia comes from an internalized belief that being trans is 'a bad thing'. Let's start there. Larter in your reply, you mention how you see all these horrible anti-trans things coming up over and over again in the media. I will say, without reservation, that those stories are stories because they are the outliers in today's first-world civilization (we won't talk about second and third world... they still have a long way to go before they get to anything like enlightenment).

I'll suggest that you take those cases for what they are. If the incidence of GD where the MtF transitions is even 1/3 the craziest large number out there for GD in general (1:42,000) then that's something around 3,000* MtF's who have transitioned in the US alone. That number is, of course, ridiculous but it goes to show that math is silly. So, take that into account and realize that you've got *thousands* of girls out there living their lives, making a living, and doing just fine. The cases where discrimination play out are those in which the person is vulnerable in a number of ways (poverty, lack of education, lack of family support, etc etc etc etc).

So there's a little data to brighten your day.

To your question of how I got over it? Well that's pretty simple. I forced myself through the process of getting out into the world. I pushed through the fear, uncertainty, doubt, and yes, self-loathing that came from early-stage full time and just got the f**k out there! I made friends, I screwed up, I did new things, I joined activities, I did everything that I wanted to do but was afraid of and, little by little, I built a life.

You adapt, you adjust, you move through the various stages of this crazy process but the one thing that I'll tell you is that doing it is the only way to prepare yourself for it. I've never seen a picture of you so I can't remark on your passability or not but, really, eventually you just stop caring. I'm passable 100% of the time now but when I started F/T, I wasn't even on hormones (seriously). You just make yourself as presentable as you can, be who you are, and know that anyone who gives you a weird look has issues within themselves that they need to work on, not you.

Be bold. Be daring. If this is your path, then it is what it is and you'll have to someday so why waste anymore time worrying about it?

*Note, the highest estimates of transitioning in the USA is 1:500 which is probably silly but that'd be 700,000, the other bound on that study was something like 1:2500 or 140,000 which seems actually pretty plausible.

LTL, one of the hardest things I had to do was start believing in myself. I agree with Victoria but let me put this in a bit of context for you.

Today I was at lunch with a friend (my spouse who will eventually just be my housemate but we're still married for the moment.

When we entered the restaurant, the hostess asked if "you ladies" wanted a table or booth. We chose a booth. The waiter addressed me as ma'am the entire time. He asked "Do you ladies want separate checks or one check today?" when we were ready to go. People around us were oblivious to me.

Except two guys across the way. I saw them looking at me and one was looking at me a lot and his expressions seemed to vary a lot so I don't think he was thinking "hot bod" but was having more of a WTF moment with confusion.

Finally, I looked at him while he was looking away, and when he looked back at me again, I gave him my best "come get some, baby" smile. That was the first time I've seen a man blush and look away from me so fast. I didn't notice him stealing any more glances the rest of the meal and he pointedly looked away when he got up to leave.

I couldn't stop him from thinking whatever about me. It's not my responsibility to control his thoughts so I don't worry about it. But I would not let him embarrass me simply for existing. By throwing that smile at him, I showed him that I didn't give a damn about what he thought of me and was happy and proud of myself.

I'm "passing" (how I hate that term) more and more as time goes on, but for me I've reached a place where I don't care how much I pass (and I've been told that I can pass very well when I really try) and am simply going to be me. As I shed "him" and let the real me shine more and more, I imagine that the perception of me will continue to shift as well. As HRT does its work, and eventually when I seek FFS, I'm going to look like any other woman my age, or maybe even better.

So grab it and run with it! Be yourself and don't let someone else's phobias embarrass you. Those are their problem, not yours.


P.S. Note to Victoria: The 1 in 2500 transitioners number originated with Lynn Conway who obtained the number of sex reassignment surgeries done by the bulk (not even all!) of the major SRS surgeons in the US over a period of several years. She then averaged that out, extrapolated, and got that figure. That figure was refined by Lynn Conway and a social scientist who worked with her later. And that's just the number of transitioners who got SRS! There are lots of non-ops (financial reasons or simply don't want it) who transition as well so that number is likely higher. By how much, I wouldn't venture to guess.

I kept everything trans hidden for 50 years. I hated my life. Major depression, shame, guilt, self loathing, and anxiety that came in waves for many years. Hurting people hurt people, and I did my best to inflict my hurt and pain on other people. I was a complete transphobic ->-bleeped-<- online. My inner turmoil was agonizing at times and I spent a lot of time crying in a fetal position. Some days I could function, some days not. This whole "woman thing" that I tried to ignore, deny and suppress my whole life snowballed on me. I finally started gender therapy on 12-2-13. I'm now almost 6 weeks into HRT and my life has changed dramatically. I love myself and my life. I feel better, my brain and mind are more clear and focused than ever before. I don't know if it's the HRT or what, but I no longer give a ->-bleeped-<- what others think. I get to become who I really was inside all those years. And that makes me very happy. And so far, I've only had ONE negative reaction. It's about doing what YOU need to do to be happy. If people don't want to understand, their loss.