Quote from: suzifrommd on February 21, 2014, 09:42:35 AM
Actually, I would say the Problem, (with a capital P) is that we allow our celebrities to speak for us rather than choosing and supporting intelligent, articulate leaders, the way many other marginalized minorities do.

Of course celebrities will get their share of talk show attention. But they are not experts and they only know their own situation.

I think their media presence needs to be balanced by transgender leaders who are knowledgeable about all our issues and have thought deeply about solutions.

I generally agree.  But it is difficult to find those leaders and thoughtful persons.  Not many are willing to step up.  Frankly, getting trans* people off their butts to do anything, no matter how easy and safe, is a huge challenge.  And we're talking about finding good ones, which are even more rare.  Maybe someone should start a thread about finding, building up, and supporting good, strong leaders.   We need them sorely.

The media doesn't know how to deal with Transfolk, especially Transwomen.  People are just barely accepting Chaz Bono.  Now, we've recently had Transwomen on Katie Couric and Piers Morgan and it's all over the news.  Until recently, Transwomen were practically invisible to the public. Janet Mock is doing a pretty good job.  I think she lacks a little experience, but yeah, she's kinda young.  But if I had to choose a single rep for Transwomen, it would definitely be Laverne Cox.  Just be glad there's ANY exposure for anything TRANS with the media.  More exposure means more acceptance.  Yeah, it's slow, but it is getting better.

1. I like Janet Mock.

2. Piers Morgan, despite claiming to be an "ally", started off completely in the wrong. You don't say things that he said and still claim to be an ally unless you are a clueless dufus or seeking sensationalistic ratings. Now is he a clueless dufus or seeking sensationalistic ratings? I'd say the latter because I've watched him do this with other topics. He's a big step down from Larry King, in my opinion and his constant pursuit of sensationalism is what caused me to stop watching him long before the Janet Mock interview. (I had to go look it up precisely because I stopped watching him a while back.)

Piers Morgan knew what he was doing and then that panel after the second interview? All cisgender people? And only one woman? WTF??? That was deliberately set up to be inflammatory.

Piers Morgan is a jerk.

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on February 21, 2014, 08:14:28 AM
The problem is that rather than explaining why he had done something wrong, she attacked him after.  He was trying to be respectful but failed so education is what was needed not hate.

This. And I think it's understandable for Piers to talk about her having been a boy given that she allowed that headline in the Marie-Claire piece. I think Piers Morgan is super-privileged but Janet bears some responsibility for not giving him enough information. That said, I think she's important because she's able to put the issues out there.

I have a funny Janet Mock story. I went to a reading of hers and was about the fifth person to ask a question. All the previous questioners seemed to be cis-gendered. I raised my hand and asked her how she thought large numbers of trans women coming out would affect the trans community as a whole. She asked for clarification and I said something like, "You have the privilege of passing. How would more women like you coming out positively affect trans rights?"

She got a bit defensive about my use of the term "passing" (I tried to avoid it but it was the only way I could clarify) and said that when she walks down the street she doesn't pass, she just is (similar to one of her videos). And then she looked around and asked: "So is there a trans person who wants to ask a question?"

And I was like, wow, so ironic that Janet Mock thought I'm cis when I asked her a question about passing!

I actually thought the Piers Morgan interview was not bad. Yes it was a little blunt, yes it had a bit of a focus on her before and after but it was such a golden opportunity to have a real teaching moment about transgender issues. Janet Mock sorta blew that, and I think she acknowledged that in the follow up interview where she said it was her first big national interview and she was scared to rock the boat as it were. She could have immediately come out and pointed out where piers was going wrong and I very much doubt piers would have given her a hard time over it. He's blunt and a little buffoonish sometimes, but not a hateful person.

I don't think either was a heinous unforgivable crime. Piers morgan isn't anti transgender, and Janet Mock will move on and be a better advocate for trans issues in future interviews. Her interview on Colbert was better although I agree with some that said that using gender neutral pronouns for kids is probably a little unnecessary.

Kia Ora,

"You can please some of the trans-people some of the time, but not all of the trans-people all of the time!"


Metta Zenda

Perhaps Janet Mock mistake was that she went on Piers Morgan's show looking for a thoughtful discussion.  This guy is tabloid scum.  I'm shocked that CNN would have someone like him as a host after his exploits in the UK.  But I guess that says more about how far CNN has fallen.

IMO Piers got exactly what he wanted sensationalism and controversy.   It was more about drawing attention to him than anything to do with Janet Mock.  Celebrities like him need to grab the media's attention every once in a while to promote their shows.  Do you really think he wants a nice discussion on the issue?

Overall, I like Janet Mock. Just getting trans issues out there is a good thing, and she does a good job. Not a bad ambassador, if you will. Unfortunately however, she is not without her faults (as are other humans!) We often times scrutinize those in the lime light. Could she do a better job? Obviously. But you know what? So could any of us. Think you can do better than her? The world is your oyster, go out and set the example!

I think its weird that people use the term 'male to female transexual' and then object to being described as being 'born a boy'.

Erm, doesn't 'male to female transexual' say that explicitly?

If the claim is that we were always women because our minds are female then isn't the term 'male-to-female' wrong and even 'transsexual' and 'transgender'? If we were always women then there was no trans-ition to 'trans' us in the first place.

Surely if we want people to get over the idea that we changed from male to female we have to stop using the term trans* and start calling ourselves something like gender-body-incongruent.

Could he not have been meaning body-wise born a boy? Is it so wrong for them to say born a boy and be referring to the body? I think it is at least understandable, considering how we as a group label ourselves!

But hey, what do I know? My body was born a boy and my mind was born a girl. I am confused by that, how the hell everyone else is supposed to understand it I have no idea! lol

Great point. I had not thought of it that way.

I think the primary issue for most was how, "Born a boy until 18" or something like that, was on the screen the entire time she was interviewed.

That didn't only suggest she was trans, it suggested she had her penis surgically inverted, to everybody who watched, before they even had to listen to a word she said.

I am MTF, but I don't wear a gold MTF chain around my neck to advertise it to everyone.

Quote from: Tori on February 22, 2014, 10:11:49 AM
I am MTF, but I don't wear a gold MTF chain around my neck to advertise it to everyone.

They have those on Ebay if you're interested.  I have one ordered. 

Quote from: mandonlym on February 21, 2014, 08:34:19 PM

I have a funny Janet Mock story. I went to a reading of hers and was about the fifth person to ask a question. All the previous questioners seemed to be cis-gendered. I raised my hand and asked her how she thought large numbers of trans women coming out would affect the trans community as a whole. She asked for clarification and I said something like, "You have the privilege of passing. How would more women like you coming out positively affect trans rights?"

She got a bit defensive about my use of the term "passing" (I tried to avoid it but it was the only way I could clarify) and said that when she walks down the street she doesn't pass, she just is (similar to one of her videos). And then she looked around and asked: "So is there a trans person who wants to ask a question?"

And I was like, wow, so ironic that Janet Mock thought I'm cis when I asked her a question about passing!

Wow

That's really funny when you think about the fact that she thought you were cis.

I think your question was a good one. I understand what she means by she "just is", but she can't not acknowledge her passing privilege. It's there after all. When cis-people look at her and learn she's trans the first thing they say is wow I didn't even know. She says something similar in her book about the term passing being a way of insinuating that those who do aren't real or are putting on a front as something they aren't.

It would've been interesting if you had said that you were in fact trans. I think she would've had no choice but to answer the question further.

Quote from: Ave on February 20, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
Don't want to seem like a hater, but does anyone else feel like she's making trans people seem radical and so out there? I understand the concepts she's trying to shed light on, but a lot of people who aren't aware or in the lgbt community just react negatively to her.

Discuss.

I think she's doing a fine job of responding to the cisnormative and arrogant Piers Morgan. He really did mess up pretty badly in all of this.

She strikes me as a shrewd business woman. That she didn't correct Piers during the interview when he was saying uncomfortable things and how readily she drops the name of her book, puts me off.

She also does not speak for me. That bit of, "I was born a baby" really rubbed me the wrong way. I tried to build a life for 34 years as a guy. Even though I've always been female, saying "she" in reference to the me of that prior time feels like a disservice to who I was and what goals I had. After all, trying to pass as a guy was in my head and heart. I inevitably failed and became the woman I was always destined to be, stuck with the good and the bad fallout of that prior life, but for 34 years I was trying to live my life as a dude.

My experience is mine, and I wouldn't dare to project it onto anyone or ask them to take on my interpretation. I also have no doubt she speaks for many and I do think there are more important things to talk about than our genitals. However for me and my transition, Janet can feel like the old guard asking us to practice revisionist history on our past. I won't. I also don't appreciate her tone because I don't want people tiptoeing around me, choosing their words carefully, afraid they might anger me. I mean, wouldn't causing people to filter who they are when interacting with me/us be "redefining realness"? On realizing that last, I'm left longing for the next generation of spokesperson.

Quote from: Misato on February 23, 2014, 08:49:04 AM
My experience is mine, and I wouldn't dare to project it onto anyone or ask them to take on my interpretation. I also have no doubt she speaks for many and I do think there are more important things to talk about than our genitals. However for me and my transition, Janet can feel like the old guard asking us to practice revisionist history on our past. I won't. I also don't appreciate her tone because I don't want people tiptoeing around me, choosing their words carefully, afraid they might anger me. I mean, wouldn't causing people to filter who they are when interacting with me/us be "redefining realness"? On realizing that last, I'm left longing for the next generation of spokesperson.

I suspect it might work out better if trans* people were allowed to choose their own spokespersons.  As it is, it seems that spokespeople are ordained by cispeople! who often choose people that are not necessarily respected within the trans* community.  That's a huge problem that many of us deal with in my local area.  One person who is a tireless self promoter is seen by outsiders as our leader and by insiders as kind of a joke.  By the cisgender outsiders won't listen to anyone else. 

I like her. She is a very young person that has a lot more courage than I had at her age, getting out there and doing TV interviews and writing a book. So she self promotes, maybe a little heavy handedly - good for her. Make that money while you can sister.

Because of her age and inexperience she'll most likely make mistakes as she goes along, but hopefully she will learn from them. I look for her to get a lot more polished in the future.

And piers morgan is an arrogant...... well, I can't say that here I have no idea why CNN has him on the air. I find him grating and irritating.

Quote from: Janae on February 23, 2014, 03:16:44 AM
It would've been interesting if you had said that you were in fact trans. I think she would've had no choice but to answer the question further.

I wish I had gotten the chance to do that but I kind of had a delayed response so the moment had passed by the time I realized what had happened. Similar things have happened to me a couple of times. Once at a drag show I sat next to this guy who started talking to me. And then her trans girlfriend came and gave me the stink eye. Then he said, "Don't worry. She knows I prefer trans women so she only gets really mad when I talk to trans girls."

Passing privilege is weird. It's good to have but can lead to awkward situations, especially for non-stealth types like myself.

Quote from: mandonlym on February 23, 2014, 11:38:35 AM
Passing privilege is weird. It's good to have but can lead to awkward situations, especially for non-stealth types like myself.

We could have a very interesting thread about that.  I've thought about starting one, but been afraid that some would take offense as it might seem like bragging or privileged people whining. 

Quote from: ThePhoenix on February 23, 2014, 11:41:47 AM
We could have a very interesting thread about that.  I've thought about starting one, but been afraid that some would take offense as it might seem like bragging or privileged people whining.

You have more of a history here so maybe it would be good for you to start it and I can definitely talk about some of my experiences. And we can talk about the whole perception of bragging or whining too, because I think that would be good to address. Because as much as it makes it easier for us, there's also the part where it alienates us from our own community. Because I do perceive the trans community as a community in the sense that even though we're not exactly the same, we share a common set of experiences.

I don't agree with everything she's said or done recently, but she had the opportunity to live a happy life in stealth and chose to reveal she was trans in order to become an advocate.  No matter what missteps she makes, she deserves respect for that.