This isn't a rant post. Just a post to lay down some thoughts I have.

Okay, so I've pretty much have gotten identified as male my whole life. Despite having long hair in a ponytail for a while, I was still misgendered and it happens all the time now that my hair is cut shorter.

While it is satisfying to know people see me as a guy despite still being pre-T, it's still a little awkward and embarrassing. In school, when there's a substitute teacher or somebody that doesn't know who I am and they call me "sir" or something like it in front of my peers and they laugh and tell that person my actual gender, I can't help but turn red all over. I don't know quite why.

Maybe I'm embarrassed that I couldn't be comfortable in the body I was born in. It's just strange.

Anyone else have moments like this?

I think the embarrassment is from being corrected, the actual gendering usually feels affirming.

Quote from: LordKAT on February 20, 2014, 03:32:37 PM
I think the embarrassment is from being corrected, the actual gendering usually feels affirming.

That's probably it.

More down the other end of the spectrum, here.

But yep! Same cocktails of feelings, as always! :p

I used to get called a girl alot when I was kid, and I felt humiliated by it, as everyone would laugh, etc. As I grew up I would tend to be discounted as a "real man" often, which really hurt as the implication y saying that was "you've failed as a man, and as gender is the most important thing about a person, you, have failed ultimately in life". And of course, feeling like you've failed at just being a normal human, does feel pretty devastating and alienating.

Nowdays, now I've embraced my femininity, and can appreciate my masculinity without feeling as much internal shame for either, I find that being gendered as male when I'm dressed female, or being outed as female when I'm dressed as male, feels far less horrific. And sometimes it can be quite fun to think that I've succeeded in being one or the other, despite the fact it'll be the opposite. I enjoy having an androgynous quality, although this quality is fading with time.

So anywho, yes, lots of moments! I get embarrassed and flustered if someone calls me "miss" or whatever, or assumes I'm a woman. I feel the need to protect myself from potential s->-bleeped-<-s etc by immediately confirming my masculinity through overt male mannerisms etc. But inside, I'm quite excited and hopeful about someone noticing my femininity and gendering me as female. If I'm gendered as male I feel depressed that I don't look female, but relieved that apparently I must be a "real man", then.

Its a real cocktail of sugary and bitter emotions, isn't it! 

QuoteI think the embarrassment is from being corrected, the actual gendering usually feels affirming.

Exactly. The shame and embarrassment can be the residue from social shaming & ridicule.

I think it has to do with how the people arround you perceive you.
You said you are pre-T, so are you considered female in your class? That creates the awkwardness when a teacher addresses you as male, methinks. You, I and everybody on this forum knows you are a male, but your classmates do not. That's awkward on a stick right there, mate.

I remember that two years ago, the same thing would happen to me. One special occassion was when I was out with a (female) friend to take blood samples from birds. We kind of stand out, and a tourist came over to ask what we were doing. And when he was informed about our job, he looked over at me and went like "So, are you doing this with your girlfriend?" He obviously assumed I was male, and was out and about with my girlfriend. My friend didn't know anything about me being trans back then, so that was very, very awkward.

Yes, I am considered female in my class. People on this forum know me as Mr. Hockey or Calder but people in school know me as Cynthia or Cindee.

I feel like that too Stella. I feel like I failed as a woman. I feel like a freak. I'm known as that quiet, tomboy that has has short hair, dresses like a guy and has a deep voice in school and I always get called out for not acting like a girl. I was even walking in the hallway once and someone looked at me and said "she's the biggest she-he I've ever seen". It was probably one of the most embarrassing moments ever and I've had a lot in school being the awkward geeky kid I am.

I totally identify.

I was the long-haired, round-faced blonde kid who sang soprano til "he" was twelve.

Every time I was misgendered, I felt affirmed and simultaneously fearful of being exposed.

Yup I get that.  I've been getting it for ages, but a couple of recent occasions has been when I was collecting money for charity, and some woman stopped and spoke to us, my friend said something about me using female pronouns and she just stood there gaping, saying, "She?!  Did you say she?!"

Often when we're leaving the base we live on the guard says "Have a good evening lads," or something similar, which sparks up a conversation about whether or not I mind always being seen as male.  As I'm not out to them I just have to brush it off, but it's hard not being able to show how happy it actually makes me, and tell them that actually, they're wrong and the guard was right.

Even when I'm not with anyone it causes problems for me, for example the other night I was checking into the hotel here (staying for work), and it took me quite a while to convince them I was the person who was staying in the room.  It could have been a lot worse as a few moments before the manager I will be under in June was there helping me get my bags in, but it was still awkward enough.

Receptionist: When will Miss [Lastname] be arriving?
Me: That's me.
Receptionist: Miss [Lastname]?
Me: Yes.
Receptionist: Miss?!
Me: Yes.
Receptionist: M-I-S-S?!
Me: YES!

A similar thing happened when I was having my meal last night too, she called me sir when collecting my plates (quite a rare thing here, we don't really sir/ma'am people often in the UK, so it was nice, but I knew what was coming), and as I have an allowance for meals at the hotel instead of paying with cash I just have to give them a chit saying it's paid for, which conveniently only says "Miss [lastname]" on.  She was really awkward when she came back, and I saw them all staring at me when she was signing off the chit, and when I walked past to leave.  I almost didn't eat tonight because I didn't want the humiliation again.

So, yeah.  It's a normal thing I think.  I wouldn't worry that it means that you aren't actually a guy, or are pleased to be gendered correctly.  It's just embarrassing for you, and for them, to have to "correct" someone.  It's embarrassing because society says that it's bad, awkward, and generally not socially acceptable, to misgender people, for example men who aren't "manly" enough get called girls, and women get teased for being "masculine", especially in schools.  It's not nice, it shouldn't happen, but unfortunately it does.  I find it horrible to have to "correct" people, because I'm lying about a fundamental part of who I am.

I used to feel this way all the time when I was pre-everything.  I used to cut my hair super-short, and before puberty I was pretty much a total pass for a guy.  I hated it when people "corrected" the teacher or when my parents "corrected" people who told them they had a handsome son. 

It never embarrassed me unless I was in front of people I KNEW would "correct" the person taking me for male.  If it happened on my own, I was thrilled.  I think you're probably just embarrassed that you are being singled out and reminded of your birth sex in front of others - at least, that's how I felt about it.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 20, 2014, 05:17:19 PM


It never embarrassed me unless I was in front of people I KNEW would "correct" the person taking me for male.  If it happened on my own, I was thrilled.  I think you're probably just embarrassed that you are being singled out and reminded of your birth sex in front of others - at least, that's how I felt about it.

Definitely this. This happened even when I hadhad long hair and wore it down ("I used to wear my hair just like that when I was your age, son") and it pleased me until someone corrected them.

Oh yes, it was amazing every time I was taken for male, though embarrassed when it happened when I was with someone who knew me and would correct it, since it felt like a reminder that I really was not physically a guy. I was taken as male 8 out of 10 times till I turned about 13. As it two of my friends put it when I came out to them, when I got taken as a male, I would 'complain' about it like I was bragging.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 20, 2014, 05:17:19 PM
I used to feel this way all the time when I was pre-everything.  I used to cut my hair super-short, and before puberty I was pretty much a total pass for a guy.  I hated it when people "corrected" the teacher or when my parents "corrected" people who told them they had a handsome son. 

It never embarrassed me unless I was in front of people I KNEW would "correct" the person taking me for male.  If it happened on my own, I was thrilled.  I think you're probably just embarrassed that you are being singled out and reminded of your birth sex in front of others - at least, that's how I felt about it.

Yeah, I feel like that. I don't like to be reminded I'm a "girl".

it's such a good thing that this thread has come up. this happens to me all the time and it makes me unsure of myself. makes me question 'am i really trans? why can't i just be happy with it?' it's a great relief to know that all you guys have the same problem. i guess the problem for me is the fear of being exposed and then outcasted. all these years i've been acting like a girl without much success, but the society has accepted me. every time they get it right i'm so afraid that they'd know i'm actually a guy inside, but since i'm not ready to fully pass yet they'll consider me a freak and hate me. i have rejection sensitivity too which worsens it, and then having to correct them or watching the person who knows me correcting them makes me embarrassed to death. i mean literally, it has felt almost suicidal at times. well the examples i've already shared in all sorts of threads all over the forum and a new one hasn't happened yet.

My best and worst moments usually happened in a restaurant in the gay part of town. The waiter would come up to me and my ex and say, "What can I get for you gentlemen?" And I would sit there and wish I knew ASL and could pretend to be deaf or something because I knew that the minute I opened my mouth, the poor guy would awkwardly correct himself, sometimes with profuse apologies. I was usually mortified, wanting to say, "No, you were right the first time."

It was so wonderful to be seen as a gay man if only for a few moments. By this time, I knew that gay men were "my" people and that I was one of them. But the pain always overwhelmed the jubilation and made me feel broody and depressed. I would push the bad feelings to the side, but they never entirely went away.

And yet I kept going back for those few seconds of recognition. I guess they were worth the fallout.

Quote from: Arch on February 23, 2014, 01:41:11 AM
My best and worst moments usually happened in a restaurant in the gay part of town. The waiter would come up to me and my ex and say, "What can I get for you gentlemen?" And I would sit there and wish I knew ASL and could pretend to be deaf or something because I knew that the minute I opened my mouth, the poor guy would awkwardly correct himself, sometimes with profuse apologies. I was usually mortified, wanting to say, "No, you were right the first time."

It was so wonderful to be seen as a gay man if only for a few moments. By this time, I knew that gay men were "my" people and that I was one of them. But the pain always overwhelmed the jubilation and made me feel broody and depressed. I would push the bad feelings to the side, but they never entirely went away.

And yet I kept going back for those few seconds of recognition. I guess they were worth the fallout.

I find it incredibly hard to pass with gay men. Like almost impossible. But a week ago I passed to a gay guy and it was a good feeling. I'm not gay, but it's just nice when a group that seems to have more trouble accepting me when they know the "truth" sees me for who I am.

Edit" oh, and, I posted before I added my other paragraph. I used to get embarrassed when I was read as a guy before. Not because I wasn't happy, just because I knew the awkward "oh sorry Miss, I didn't see you..." or my friends laughing about it would draw unwanted attention to the fact that I wasn't in fact cis male. Like if I was cis male no one would bat an eye if I was called sir, but back then, when people knew, I knew it would just draw attention to my issue.

This keeps bothering me, so... Why are you "mistaken" for male? Wouldn't you be "mistaken" as female?


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on February 23, 2014, 01:39:22 PM
This keeps bothering me, so... Why are you "mistaken" for male? Wouldn't you be "mistaken" as female?


--Jay

That was just the word I used.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 20, 2014, 03:43:11 PM
More down the other end of the spectrum, here.

But yep! Same cocktails of feelings, as always! :p

I used to get called a girl alot when I was kid, and I felt humiliated by it, as everyone would laugh, etc. As I grew up I would tend to be discounted as a "real man" often, which really hurt as the implication y saying that was "you've failed as a man, and as gender is the most important thing about a person, you, have failed ultimately in life". And of course, feeling like you've failed at just being a normal human, does feel pretty devastating and alienating.

Nowdays, now I've embraced my femininity, and can appreciate my masculinity without feeling as much internal shame for either, I find that being gendered as male when I'm dressed female, or being outed as female when I'm dressed as male, feels far less horrific. And sometimes it can be quite fun to think that I've succeeded in being one or the other, despite the fact it'll be the opposite. I enjoy having an androgynous quality, although this quality is fading with time.

So anywho, yes, lots of moments! I get embarrassed and flustered if someone calls me "miss" or whatever, or assumes I'm a woman. I feel the need to protect myself from potential s->-bleeped-<-s etc by immediately confirming my masculinity through overt male mannerisms etc. But inside, I'm quite excited and hopeful about someone noticing my femininity and gendering me as female. If I'm gendered as male I feel depressed that I don't look female, but relieved that apparently I must be a "real man", then.

Its a real cocktail of sugary and bitter emotions, isn't it! 
Exactly. The shame and embarrassment can be the residue from social shaming & ridicule.

I feel much the same way It's not that i don't want to be seen as female, far from it, it's just that i think people will figure they made a mistake when they see my stubble/adam's apple, and if i hadn't corrected them immediately i'm worried about the s->-bleeped-<-ing as well.

Speaking of hotels, the reception staff would pretty much address me as female when waiting in line, but when i get closer you can see the realisation come over their faces... which is awkward to say the least. It's getting to be a bit of an ordeal ordering food at restaurants/take out as people tend to stare after i've spoken, and i'm over compensating with my body language. I just have to manage till i can pay for surgeries.