Quote from: JordanBlue on February 23, 2014, 01:14:55 PM
You're not describing the feelings of a transsexual here.  If you can live as a man and crossdress, do it, and don't transition.  Real simple.

Oh yeah. Real simple. 

So I should just put off transitioning for another 20 years until I can't take it anymore and would rather die than continue faking it? No thanks.

Yeah I'm sure the people who transitioned in their 50s or 60s thought they'd be alright living as a male in the 20s too?

Why are you so entitled to know how mtf transsexuals think?  Glad to know their thoughts can be lumped together so easily for you to make blanket statements.  Guess we are all depressed and suicidal and hate our genitalia too?

No worries babe. Guess my mindset is just not right. Gotta go back to the therapist to tell her I'm not trans now and stop these hormones lol

God, I hate these fights over who is and who is not a transsexual.  I live socially and for work as a (fake) man, and privately as Cindy.  That is how I maintain a loving and accepting wife, good income, and a future.  I have seen too many in my group meetings jump in and find that their expectations for maintaining a job, family, etc. didn't come to pass.  Many had nightmare outcomes that were far worse than just muddling through.  I have found enough ways to express myself and placate the dysphoria to enable me to survive.  Compromise works, for ME!  If it doesn't for you, then transition. Just base it on possible outcomes that you are willing to accept. The world is a different place today where life choices and pathways exist for younger people to build an authentic life, though it is still hard.  Destroying everything you have built over a lifetime in some misguided attempt (for ME) at martyrdom just seems foolish and self defeating to any sort of life, let alone an authentic one.  It does not, however, make me any less transsexual.     

You know, the trans* spectrum encompasses a lot more than just transsexual identified persons.  I don't identify as transsexual, for example, but I am still some sort of trans* individual.  So even if someone may not be transsexual, they still may fall elsewhere along the spectrum.  People do have differing ideas of who is and is not trans*.  I deal with that by adopting a rule that says if a person considers themselves to be trans*, then that fully resolves the issue and I will not second guess them.

The idea that everyone who transitions is in a do-or-die situation was very common at one time, but it seems to no longer be a widely held or very factually accurate reflection of reality.  No one transitions frivolously.  But people aren't typically transitioning because they must do it or die.  Some are.  But until now, I had not heard that idea articulated in at least 10-15 years. 

Perhaps the fact that people are not so frequently waiting until stresses are so great leads to more of the second thoughts, doubts, and efforts to talk oneself out of it.  Personally, I think that this actually reflects a greater degree of rationality than is possible with a person who has their backs to the wall as much as the do-or-die situation.  It also reflects that people are accepting themselves and obtaining treatment sooner rather than waiting until they reach a point where stress is so great that they are in a do-or-die situation. 

Think about it:  we are talking about a process that disrupts social relationships, risks exposing oneself to severe discrimination and devastating economic and social consequences, profoundly alters the biology of one's body, alters anatomic features, and costs lots and lots of money.  What sane person would NOT have second thoughts about doing that?

This question of whether other people have second thoughts or not is one of the ones I get asked most often.  My answer is:  of course people have second thoughts.  I think most do.  Most have doubts.  Tons and tons of people try to talk themselves out of it.  I know one person who has changed names, changed pronouns, and started, then stopped transition so many times that I refer to them as "the many named one" because I have no idea what name they are using from one moment to the next.

The people who worry, second guess, and doubt are not the people I worry about.  The people I worry about are the ones who have no second thoughts at all.  Because I fear that, either out of desperation or out of obliviousness, they are not fully thinking it through. 

You folks have fun.  I'm out. 

Quote from: JordanBlue on February 24, 2014, 12:56:28 PM
You folks have fun.  I'm out. 

Are we allowed to have fun?  Pretty sure I should be too depressed and suicidal to have fun

I'm with Jordan Blue and The Phoenix on this one.   If your dysphoria is severe enough it will probably overwhelm you and an early transition will present as the only viable option available to you.  Whereas if your dysphoria is not overwhelming then you are more likely and able to think it through.   You may then fully transition, partly transition or find another way to deal with dysphoria which works for you.

Quote from: Aisla on February 24, 2014, 01:53:04 PM
I'm with Jordan Blue and The Phoenix on this one.   If your dysphoria is severe enough it will probably overwhelm you and an early transition will present as the only viable option available to you.  Whereas if your dysphoria is not overwhelming then you are more likely and able to think it through.   You may then fully transition, partly transition or find another way to deal with dysphoria which works for you.

I just felt personally attacked by Jordan Blue because of her remarks.  My dysphoria isn't as bad as it could be, but it certainly is prevalent.  My wife has noticed how much happier I am now that I am open with her about everything and she says she has never seen me smile as much as when I am in girl-mode.  I could keep faking it as a man for a while longer, but I don't want to do that anymore.  I've been faking the male role for long enough and everything about transitioning feels right to me. 

My therapist doesn't think that depression and do-or-die is a must for transition and she was very impressed with how much I opened up to her about it all on our first session.  Maybe I jumped the gun on getting on HRT but I am 100% sure that I am making the right decision.

Quote from: FilaFord on February 24, 2014, 02:20:30 PM
I just felt personally attacked by Jordan Blue because of her remarks.  My dysphoria isn't as bad as it could be, but it certainly is prevalent.  My wife has noticed how much happier I am now that I am open with her about everything and she says she has never seen me smile as much as when I am in girl-mode.  I could keep faking it as a man for a while longer, but I don't want to do that anymore.  I've been faking the male role for long enough and everything about transitioning feels right to me. 

My therapist doesn't think that depression and do-or-die is a must for transition and she was very impressed with how much I opened up to her about it all on our first session.  Maybe I jumped the gun on getting on HRT but I am 100% sure that I am making the right decision.

JordanBlue is an older person who was espousing a view that was very common around 20 years ago when I first connected with the trans* community.  It isn't that common now because some things have changed.  But it wasn't a personal attack on you or anyone else.  It was just an older perspective that is not heard as much today.  Likewise, I am guessing that my post is what prompted JordanBlue to delete their posts and leave.  I'm sorry that they did so.  They would have had much to add because older folks do often have some wisdom to share.  But by the same token, they might have benefited from hearing some new perspectives that would have helped with updating that old information just as I had to do when I started reconnecting with trans* people a few years ago. 

We are a group of people who often have some serious wounds.  Those wounds do prompt people to both be more sensitive to perceived attacks and lash out when they perceive themselves being attacked.  Believe me, I know a lot about trans* related wounds.  So I try to be careful about taking things said here too personally and I try to be over cautious about warning people if I'm about to say something that might be controversial.  I don't always succeed, but I try. 

I embarked on my particular transitional journey for many reasons, but a big part of it was because I was tired of being lonely.  To briefly summarize what I have written elsewhere, when I was pretending to be a guy, it left me with no space in which to belong.  And the lack of that space made me an incredibly lonely person all the time.  I couldn't even say the word "lonely" without crying, even if it was referring to someone else's loneliness.  But I was not suicidal.  It was not do-or-die.

I've had the stuffing kicked out of me very well since then.  And sometimes I think maybe I should go back.  Maybe I could have things like my career back.  I'm pretty obsessive about not throwing away medications (because they end up in the Ppotomac River, which already has enough problems).  That means I probably have some Androgel around the house somewhere still.  Knowing how quickly hormones seem to affect me, and how androgynous my underlying body structure is, that means I probably could go back pretty quickly.  But if I did that, I think I'd be dead within a year.  Another trip through the transition journey would probably kill me.

So where does that leave me between the do-or-die people and the folks who do it for other reasons?  I guess right in the middle.  Which seems to be my customary place on lots of things.  I was very amused when I realized that even my height happens to be the exact midpoint between my parents' heights.

I do not mean to sound like a moderator, but I do hope we can return to the topic at hand now.

I also tried to moderate as I certainly have experienced Jordan Blue's perspective.  Indeed I shared their view for many years and it was this do or die, black or white binarism which prevented me from moving forward or addressing my GD.  The advent of more enlightened therapy and therapists plus an improved understanding of myself and of my options has led me to a middle of the road perspective.  This is why I see myself as Gender Queer and TG rather than TS/ MTF and F.

Both perspectives are valid and each has its role like different clothes in your closet.  Take them out, try them on, walk around and keep the presentation you are most comfortable with.  You may later change/transition and that is also fine. 

I appreciate the diversity in thinking and the support and diversity in this community.  Without this I would certainly have had a much poorer and angst ridden life.

Aisla

Self-acceptance is the first step toward self-discovery. Those urges and feelings that you have won't go away. Prior to coming out I was in denial for several weeks.It like being on a torture rack. Couldn't sleep or concentrate. When I came out to myself, all the stress and tension dissipated. If you're happy cross dressing or being androgynous, that's great. If you decide to transition and that's what you really want to do, do it. I'm not going to transition myself because I'm happy  as a transgender woman.

Quote from: Sarah Rose on January 20, 2014, 04:28:17 PM
I've been in your position... I'm pre HRT and have only recently come out to my friends/family....

The only thing making me try and push this away is the crap my Mother keeps telling me, she's trying to convince me that I'm destroying my life and pointing out anything and everything she can to make me stop what I'm planning to do (HRT).

I know one thing for sure, every time I tried to push this away it came back harder, and stronger... The last time it came back (about two weeks ago) I was suicidal over it. I quickly lost that depression after coming out. It's hard that's for certain but only you'll know.

I'm going to keep pushing forward, even with the occasional doubt because I know that my only doubts are coming from my Mothers denial.

I know how you feel, I too am out recently to my family (12/3/13) and before I came out I really didn't doubt my feelings about transition.  It was only after I came out, and my parents reacted horribly (disowned) that I began to have doubts.  My mother refuses to believe I am trans.  She went as far as telling me I am a liar and that she is the true witness to my life as a female.  My father asked why I can't just decide being trans isn't "worth it".  So because this has been so painful and I have lost my parents, I began to have doubts.  I know I want to transition in an ideal world, but I am afraid of losing my entire support network.

The elephant in the room is always the same.  Society treats transgender people like crap.  It might have improved over the years but we're  still very disliked by many.  Transitioning is always going to be tough when family, friends and society have a warped view of gender.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I can understand everyone's points of view on this thread, in such a crazy situation, there are going to be many different opinions and solutions.  Take care.