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Mother-son relationship and transexualism

Started by Natalia, February 28, 2014, 02:48:45 PM

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Natalia

Hello,

I was reading some stuff about transexualism and I found one hypothesis from an author named Stoller:

He says that the transexualism may be caused by a strong bound between mother and son that never fades away, leading to an intense symbiosis between them. The son sees on the mother a model and identifies with her as a woman.
Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.
These marriages are often kept for many years, with constant arguments and without love or sex between wife and husband.


This is one hypothesis, but this is pretty much EXACTLY my life.

My mother was always very strong and a kind of masculinized woman, while my father was absent for most of my life.

My mother and father splitted when I was just a baby and they got back together only when I was 14 years old. Even then my father was still a very absent person. He was extremely passive and had no initiative at all. The marriage was kept for more 10 years and my mother and father were always arguing. I couldn't see any love on their relationship.

I always had and I still have an extreme bound with my mother. We can often "read each other's minds". I have spent my entire life close to her. We go out together, we have meals together, we watch television together. We live almost as if we were one.

But then there is another hypotesis, that says that transexualism is actually a defense from our minds to protect us from a behavior that we can't accept, as homosexuality. This also says that transsexualism can be a manifestation of a borderline identity disorder, as transsexuals share many common aspects with them, as cronical anxiety, isolationism, depression and low tolerance to stress.

Reading this, I must say I also agree and I identify with many of these lines. I never could accept or see myself as a gay man (as the subject of another topic), because, someway, I felt it wasn't right. I didn't want to feel attracted to men as a man, but I want it as a woman.

Do you girls agree or identify with any of these hypothesis as I have? I am sure there are many people here that knows much more than me. I was only doing some silly uncompromised research and found this.
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Jamie D

I personally think that theory is balderdash.  Similar things have been proposed to explain gay males.

We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world.  Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.

I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.
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Natalia

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 28, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
I personally think that theory is balderdash.  Similar things have been proposed to explain gay males.

We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world.  Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.

I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.

Besides identifying myself with those hypothesis, I agree that nature probably plays a bigger role. I believe that genetics and the effects of estrogen on the fetus can change the development of the brain from a male-pattern to a female-pattern. Being who we are is just the outcome of those changes...
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stephaniec

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 28, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
I personally think that theory is balderdash.  Similar things have been proposed to explain gay males.

We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world.  Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.

I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.
ditto
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Sarah Louise

Every theory under the sun has been made.  Truth be told the authors are doing it for money or their degree.

Sorry, but my relationship with my mother wasn't that close.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Jane's Sweet Refrain

I read Stoller two decades ago. His theory is generally sympathetic, but he was part of the general trend of pathologizing sexuality and transsexuality, a trend that has mostly come to an end. Yes, there will be people who's lived reality lines up with his theory. But if even 25% of children designated male at birth who had strong mothers and absent fathers ended up MTF transsexual, we'd have one of the largest voting blocks in the United States.  ;D
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Jamie D

Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
Besides identifying myself with those hypothesis, I agree that nature probably plays a bigger role. I believe that genetics and the effects of estrogen on the fetus can change the development of the brain from a male-pattern to a female-pattern. Being who we are is just the outcome of those changes...

Natalia, part of the reason that you identify with these theories is because they may have an element of truth for many people.  Along the same lines of astrological charts and Chinese fortune cookies.

We are looking for answers, and this thing seems to fit.

That's why there are a number of TS folks out there who still cling to the discredited ->-bleeped-<- theory.
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Colleen♡Callie

I don't know.  I really don't like these theories as they seem to me to either be outdated, from the earlier days of trying to determine a cause, or an attempt to swing the diagnosis back to being a mental disorder to be cured through psychotherapy.  Since both heavily rely on it being a variant manifestation of another disorder, or something we were raised to be or a manifestation of our confusion about something else, and by extension something that doesn't actually exist.  If these theories were true, transitioning shouldn't help, and if these theories were to be accepted totally as the cause, transitioning would actually be denied to everyone, since being trans* isn't real, and thus they must instead treat the real issue behind our delusion.  I don't like that implication, and history and evidence has shown otherwise in almost every case. 

With a wide diversity of people in any group, you'll always find people that fit any theory you propose.  That doesn't make it a sound theory.  It should be representative of the whole group in someway.   


"Tell my tale to those who ask.  Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly.  The rest is silence." - Dinobot



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Randi

Not here.  Although I was very close to my mother, my father was a very masculine man, a business owner, hunter and fisherman and a community leader.  He bore a lot of resemblance to Ernest Hemingway and took me moose hunting in Canada when I was quite young.  He died when I was ten, but we spent lots of time together doing manly things.

Of course I greatly admired my mother and wanted to be like her too.  I still do.  Before I started school I thought it was possible to become a girl by just changing my hair and clothing.  I'm still not sure about that!

As for the homosexuality thing, I have never been attracted to men.  I'm strictly gynephilic.

I don't think environment has much to do with it.  My mother took DES Diethylsilbestrol to prevent miscarriage when pregnant with me.  It's a potent endocrine disruptor.  Fully one third of DES sons are transsexual.

Randi

Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 02:48:45 PM

Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.


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Natalia

Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on February 28, 2014, 03:48:30 PM
I don't know.  I really don't like these theories as they seem to me to either be outdated, from the earlier days of trying to determine a cause, or an attempt to swing the diagnosis back to being a mental disorder to be cured through psychotherapy. 

Yes, I just checked and this hypothesis is dated from 1982! Old stuff indeed!

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 28, 2014, 03:23:30 PM
Natalia, part of the reason that you identify with these theories is because they may have an element of truth for many people.  Along the same lines of astrological charts and Chinese fortune cookies.


Chinese fortune cookies are fun to read!  ;D  But yes those hypothesis don't give any explanation at all and I never believed them to be responsible for someone being transexual. I was just curious if this could be related with transexualism, as something with a bigger incidence within our group than within cis-people.


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stephaniec

I have a feeling the more the genetic code is unraveled and the complexity of different effects each gene has on the other and the extent of hormones effect on multiple levels of the genetic make up most of the understanding of gender will come from  the complexity of the genetic environment, just my opinion.
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Jamie D

Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
Yes, I just checked and this hypothesis is dated from 1982! Old stuff indeed!

Chinese fortune cookies are fun to read!  ;D  But yes those hypothesis don't give any explanation at all and I never believed them to be responsible for someone being transsexual. I was just curious if this could be related with transsexualism, as something with a bigger incidence within our group than within cis-people.

It makes sense that psychology is involved in our understanding of ourselves.  I just am not a fan of broad, sweeping psychological theories that don't address key components of my own experience, and of the several parts of the transgender community.

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anais

I have always wondered why i feel this way and for the moment there really isn't a real clear explanation which doesn't help with these feelings.
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Missy~rmdlm

My parents did have a rotten marriage. But I feel the only effect on me from that was a delay in me learning to socialize with people, and a prime example of how -not- to live a marriage. My own seven year marriage was spectacular compared to my parents and only really failed due to my gender issues.
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FrancisAnn

I was very close with my mother & thought I was a little girl until my first day of grammar school. I was so dissapointed being told I was a boy & to sit on this side of the room. My father was not around much as a child & most of my time was spent with my mother. She wanted a little girl because her first child was a male. She knew I was a little girl at heart however in those days there were not any HRT or real treatments available to correct physical gender.

I've always been my mothers daughter & very glad to be. I wish very early in life there had been a way to stop the wrong hormones & start with the correct hormones so I could have developed into more of a girl & had a more normal life while my mother was alive. She would have been so proud of me to completely improve my body so I could have been her loving daughter.   

So this is my short life story. Perhaps it helps others.
mtF, mid 50's, always a girl since childhood, HRT (Spiro, E & Fin.) since 8-13. Hormone levels are t at 12 & estrogen at 186. Face lift & eye lid surgery in 2014. Abdominoplasty/tummy tuck & some facial surgery May, 2015. Life is good for me. Love long nails & handsome men! Hopeful for my GRS & a nice normal depth vagina maybe by late summer. 5' 8", 180 pounds, 14 dress size, size 9.5 shoes. I'm kind of an elegant woman & like everything pink, nice & neet. Love my nails & classic Revlon Red. Moving back to Florida, so excited but so much work moving
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FrancisAnn

Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
Yes, I just checked and this hypothesis is dated from 1982! Old stuff indeed!

Chinese fortune cookies are fun to read!  ;D  But yes those hypothesis don't give any explanation at all and I never believed them to be responsible for someone being transexual. I was just curious if this could be related with transexualism, as something with a bigger incidence within our group than within cis-people.
Natalia. You have such a beautiful face. I'm so glad for you. I hope you can have a great life as a beautiful woman. You deserve it GF. Enjoy.
mtF, mid 50's, always a girl since childhood, HRT (Spiro, E & Fin.) since 8-13. Hormone levels are t at 12 & estrogen at 186. Face lift & eye lid surgery in 2014. Abdominoplasty/tummy tuck & some facial surgery May, 2015. Life is good for me. Love long nails & handsome men! Hopeful for my GRS & a nice normal depth vagina maybe by late summer. 5' 8", 180 pounds, 14 dress size, size 9.5 shoes. I'm kind of an elegant woman & like everything pink, nice & neet. Love my nails & classic Revlon Red. Moving back to Florida, so excited but so much work moving
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Ltl89

Wow, this really describes my situation pretty well.  I've always been very close to my mom.  Besides that, I've had a very close relationship with my two sisters, one in particular.  We used to call each other twins and would do everything together, included sometimes dressing up and doing makeup.  Because I really looked up to all of them, I used to imitate or repeat much of their behavior.  To say that this social upbringing could have impacted my view of other women and my own identity isn't all that shocking.  I've come to accept that it probably does explain a good portion of why I am me.  And I'm okay with that.  Born this way or became this way, I am this way and can't change it.  That's fine.  It's coming to love the complete picture more than anything.   

The only thing that doesn't add up is that my father wasn't passive persay.  He was a strong typical Sicilian man.  Masculine to his core.  However, he was not really involved in everything with the family.  He saw himself more as the financial caretaker and then he kind of let my mother run the show.  I don't know. 
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FalseHybridPrincess

I too have grown without a father and had a really strong relationship with my mom...
I also have a younger brother with whom i used to fight a lot...


I dont know if it has anything to do with me being trans...
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
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Marina mtf

as a only son of a strong "Taurus" Mediterranean woman I suppose that I was born at high risk   :police:

Nevertheless not all the only sons, sensitive and shy of strong women are trans, otherwise here
we will be in legions  :icon_help:

Every one of us has his own story which becomes HER own story  :icon_chick: but it is just it, a story.
Hindsight is 20-20, they say, and also these theories are self fulfilling because each one of us picks
the one which justifies the unjustifiable  :eusa_boohoo:, playing the music of the past, but the only
important thing is the trans present...


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Eva Marie

Weak father - check

Strong, domineering mother - check

Close to mother - bzzzzzzt......

My wife tried to convince me that I am trans because of my domineering mother; my wife had several run ins with my mother and knows whats she's like after those experiences. I never believed her theory but in the interest of trying to give her theories a fair shake I ran it by my therapist. This is what the therapist said:

Your wife's conclusions are very interesting. The same theory was espoused by Alfred Hitchcock in the movie "Psycho" concerning Norman Bates and his mother. Gender dysphoria is, however, biological - we have discarded the mother-blaming theories a long time ago, since they just didn't hold up.
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