OK, so, since my teaching contract ran out I've been on the hunt for jobs. I try to conceal the fact that my undergrad degree is in women's studies - I feel like it's an automatic "outer" (mind you, that's only in liberal circles but nvm). My master's is in Communications so I write that I am working on a master's in communications and simply write that I have a Bachelor of Arts, without making reference to the specific title of the degree.

There's jobs at women's shelters that offer $25 an hour and up. That is GREAT money for me, and better than most jobs I see out there - I'd be able to save for surgery so fast! Problem is, you get me in those circles and they are sure to know I am FTM. And the thought makes me want to cry, seriously, because I can't bear the thought of living as anything other than just a man. I hate coming out, I am not "out and proud" and never will be...so it would jeopardize stealthiness.

But it's a great job, I'm qualified, I know I'd be good at it, I can't save for surgery without a good job...plus, it's not like I'd be living as a woman exactly. Just...not fully as a man. Because really, when people know you are FTM, they rarely see you the same as other guys. That to me isn't living as a man. I'm honestly trying to decide if that will kill me or not. I mean, if I hate it, I can quit, right?

I guess it's ultimately my decision, but does anyone have anything they think I should consider?

Rather than give any sort of advice, I'd like to ask a question.

Sometimes, we do things with the mindset of the end justifying the means. Grit our teeth and push through because of a bigger goal we've set for ourselves. The question is, if this proves to be a big step towards your "end", then do you consider the means something that you will be able to deal with in order to reach it? Are you the sort of person who can keep long term goals in mind in the midst of... well... adversity, for lack of a better word?

Hmm...aren't only women allowed to work there? So it's more than being viewed as an FTM, it's being viewed as a masculine woman.

I respectfully disagree with you on the treatment of others, I am treated exactly like a guy by many people who know I'm trans*male, tbh I think most of them forget the trans* part most of the time.

So I wouldn't let that get you too worried. I'd be more concerned (if I were in your shoes)about you making abused women nervous, depending on how far in transition you are.

Personally, if it's that good of a job, and you have a good chance of getting it, it's worth a shot. Like you said, you can always quit. Good luck!

$25 an hour?  Honestly, I would take that job and run with it, no matter how many would take offense there. If I were in your shoes, I'd work those hours to get my surgery, then work some more to be able to have enough to move to the U.S. (if that's still your goal).

Then again, I would take my advice with a grain of salt since it's me....

I think that we all have to eventually find ourselves in a situation in which we're forced to choose between living and being perceived as the gender we innately are or sacrificing that in order to get by, even if it's "in the meantime".

I don't know how far along you are transition-wise - I'm with the others and am a tad concerned for the situation you'd be working in if you're perceived as male.  If you're perceived as female, that's another story.  I wouldn't personally feel comfortable working in a women's shelter with potentially vulnerable women perceiving me as a male and possibly a threat.  But if you don't think that will happen to you, then it's your choice really.

Are there no other options for you that offer a similar amount of money? 

I'd probably work there while looking for another job that offers similar pay where I could be stealth. Like you said, you can always quit.

Though, you'd need to consider if being out among your co-workers and people who use the shelter's services would be people you'd run into in a later job. If you work there, are outed, and then move to a job in a similar field, you could run into some of the same contacts which may jeopardize being stealth in the future.

I say go for it. Its an opportunity for decent money and that's rare. Besides you could always leave it at a later date.

I don't know you'd be outed, I consult in the financial services and have been on female hormones for three years and have fairly long hair now, it hasn't been a problem and I'm not out either. I don't think anyone knows much of anything, if they do it doesn't matter to them it appears.

But yes, you can quit if it doesn't work out, you have permission. 

Quote from: Polo on February 28, 2014, 07:54:28 PM
Hmm...aren't only women allowed to work there? So it's more than being viewed as an FTM, it's being viewed as a masculine woman.

I respectfully disagree with you on the treatment of others, I am treated exactly like a guy by many people who know I'm trans*male, tbh I think most of them forget the trans* part most of the time.

So I wouldn't let that get you too worried. I'd be more concerned (if I were in your shoes)about you making abused women nervous, depending on how far in transition you are.

Personally, if it's that good of a job, and you have a good chance of getting it, it's worth a shot. Like you said, you can always quit. Good luck!

$25! for a not for profit. Weird.

Anyway I agree with this assessment. Most people do know I am trans, but it doesn't mean they actually are thinking this all or even most of the time. I think they kind of forget. This is cis women and cis men. You might think that every minute they are thinking "this person is trans". I don't think people process this info like that.

I am a little more aware now re: how I respond to women and children and if it could be taken wrong.


--Jay

hmm Just to start out.. I wouldn't say that a women's studies major is an "outter"  My cismale best friend was a women's studies major in undergrad, and no one has ever accused him of not being fully male. 

second... Why would you have to be known as trans just because you work at a women's shelter?  I'm kind of confused by that.  Just that you'll out yourself in casual conversation?  If anything I'd think at a women's shelter an FTM would stand out as even more male.  One can't live life just to be a man among men.  I'd take the job.  Seems really quite silly not to.

Well.. for me I have no choice I have to out myself every time I am trying to get a job if I want to get payment from it. it tend to be akward at times and im pretty nervous if this will get a problem.
My current job is nothing special but theres no fuss about me being trans. its only the boss and one of the workers who is my old school mate who know but since it factory work where people simple work and leave nobody really comunicate or have time to goship about anything, maybe it would be more difficult if it was a more social working place.

Thank you everyone for your responses! It's given me a lot to think about, from a lot of angles.

Just to clarify on the outing issue - I don't necessarily believe that having a women's studies degree, or working in a women's shelter, would out me in and of itself. I'm more concerned with the fact that in my city, it seems that a lot of women's groups have at some point encountered trans men. I haven't been able to have a conversation with someone who is a feminist (self-identified anyway) without them making small hints to indicate that they can tell I'm trans. These are people who are years behind me, so the chance of them knowing someone I knew, and having that person out me, is very small. I'm guessing it just has a lot to do with my features - I'm short, a bit baby-faced, pretty quiet, etc - and while most people think nothing of it, they (the feminists, or some other liberal groups) seem to draw the conclusion that I was born female. That's my primary concern, that I don't look like men my age, so as a male I seem very out of place in that sort of work.

I talked to my ex about it too and sent her an email today explaining why I didn't decide to take it. I will post it here - a lot of it did come from the posts that were in this thread, as I read them all and considered them pretty carefully.

QuoteI decided not to apply for it. I did call to ask if they took men, and I got a hesitant "yes", followed by "they generally don't work in the crisis part but you are welcome to apply."

But you were right, that I couldn't even handle the thought of being outed. I had a horrible dysphoria attack last night that left me in tears (at the thought of having to "go backwards"). I know I have the qualifications. That job would have been a great fit 3 or 4 years ago, but it really wouldn't be anymore. Not because I don't care about women's issues, but because my attitude towards being outed has drastically changed. I'm not that person anymore. If I was cisgender, I'd apply as a male, but I have a strong feeling they could tell by looking at me that I am trans and that's not something I can do any longer. I waited a long time to start hormones, and an even longer time to be accepted fully as male in *some* places. To go into a situation where I'm almost certain my transgender status would be discovered would be a monumental step back.

And my motivations aren't pure. I would do everything I could to help the people in the centre, but when I am considering applying for a job with vulnerable people because I want money for my surgery...that's not right. It's not like I am working in a grocery store or a factory where you work with objects. These are real people, who need real help, and deserve to have people working with them who intend to stay for the long haul. I can't imagine them seeing me as male, but what if they do and they'd rather see a woman? (that's probably major dysphoria at work, but yeah, if they did see a male in that situation it could be very upsetting)

And it's dishonest. I am trans, that's a reality, but to live my life in a way that's incongruent with the way I feel about myself is inauthentic. I've come too far to pretend to be someone I am not, or to pretend to be comfortable with something that I am not. If I present myself as "trans" as if I am comfortable with my private info being somewhat public, and as if that is my identity rather than male, how is that any better than say, pretending to be straight when you're gay? How is that any different from what I did in high school, pretending to be a straight girl because I wanted an easy life? That's not the path I chose to take then, and it's not the path I choose to take now.

So yeah...it is easier money, but I'd be doing something I was uncomfortable with because I wanted an easier life and an easier road to my goals. I can't justify that, on a very personal level - but I do appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I understand your opinion, I also wouldn't want to take steps backwards or starting from the beginning. I respect your honesty and the way you think about this. Good luck to find a job you where you don't have to make more compromise than you can take.