Hi everyone hope your all doing well .

I am curious since yeson's raises the base vocal pitch by about 75hrtz is it possible to regain the ability to scream at a high pitch like before puberty?

It would be nice because whenever I excitedly scream basically 0 sound comes out (just a rush of air really) and it is really annoying especially when everyone starts looking at me funny afterwards.

Thanks girls

I have also been interested in knowing the answer to this too, but felt silly asking it. So I'll just tag on to Paige's comment ^_^
If there's no answer, I guess I'll just ask Yeson whenever I schedule my surgery there (probably mid-late next year).
~Jen

AFAIK the standard answer is that pitch range to the top is usually not guaranteed to be increasing, although some have experienced this by some semitones. It would be cool to know about screaming in general - some people claim you cannot scream at all post op.

I will definatly have to ask because I would assume shortening the length would increase all frequencies in your natural range.  I feel horrified as I just thought of "what if I go to scream for help for some reason and nothing comes out?!".

I know that's one thing that really scares me. If something bad happens one night and I have no way of alerting others what could I do?

Great question for Jennygirl I think!

Quote from: JenniferAlexandria on March 01, 2014, 03:10:50 PM
I will definatly have to ask because I would assume shortening the length would increase all frequencies in your natural range. 

My understanding of the process is that it works like putting a capo on a guitar neck. You still have all the notes above that fret which you can use, but, you can't use any of the notes below it anymore. And, it doesn't add more frets.

So, in essence, although it makes your starting pitch higher, it doesn't increase your range, it actually shortens it.

I could be wrong though...

Hi missadventure, all,

Quote from: missadventure on March 02, 2014, 12:16:14 AM
So, in essence, although it makes your starting pitch higher, it doesn't increase your range, it actually shortens it.

In theory, if the vocal cords were ideal oscillators, and you shortened them, their upper and lower limit would rise in proportion. However, inharmonicity will play a greater role on a shorter cord, so the range cut at the bottom will outweigh the gain up top.

The rest is up to the surgeon: most of Dr. Kim's patients report a range gain up top. I think Jennygirl reported losing a minor 7th at the bottom and gaining half an octave up top (look it up somewhere in the thread "Yeson voice feminization surgery" – I don't know exactly where off the top of my head). That's a net range loss of 4 semitones, which is bearable, and probably the ideal outcome, where the result is only compromised by the limitations imposed by physics.

OTOH, in communication with the Charité people, they mentioned that their patients only experienced minor top range gain, if any. This is consistent with M. Gross's paper that has been quoted here many times. They seem to introduce additional stiffness/inharmonicity at the new commissure that eats away at the range (and timbre as a whole, I would say).

Regards,

Amy

Quote from: AmyBerlin on March 02, 2014, 02:35:18 AM
...so the range cut at the bottom will outweigh the gain up top.

Very much correct for me Amy... But I've lost nearly an entire octave or 11 semitones off of the bottom and gained 7 semitones up top.

So, overall my range has only decreased by less than half of an octave. To be specific, pre-op my range was Eb2 - C5. Currently, my range is D3 - Ab5 which I am quite happy with

My actual speaking range I would guess to bounce between E3 - Bb4.

The timbre of my voice definitely changed a LOT. It has a much, much softer tone... I am sure it is a sound quality I could never have achieved with practice alone. There is absolutely no male chesty/raspy sound to it at all and that is probably the best part Even if I find myself talking in a lower voice in a certain situation (sometimes my average can drop as low as 170hz) it still sounds female and I have never been clocked on my voice. Actually, I've been told more than a few times by people I came out to: they wondered if I was trans, but they said they had decided I probably wasn't because of my voice. Even when you aren't looking your best, having a female sounding voice will carry you through.

Quote from: Jennygirl on March 02, 2014, 06:36:40 AM
Actually, I've been told more than a few times by people I came out to: they wondered if I was trans, but they said they had decided I probably wasn't because of my voice.

<3 !



Soo great!

But Jenny, can you say anything about the topic of screaming? Is it possible to scream loud and/or at a high pitch? Did you regain yet your ability to scream and is it causing no troubles or is it better to be a bit careful with that?

I am very careful with how much I push it. I do still (and will always) have a vocal tremor so overusing my voice causes damage that takes a few days to repair.

I have screamed briefly though, and it is very much possible to pitch it up in the girl registers. Not quite what I would call a "squeal", but it definitely sounds female no doubt about that.

I look at it this way: if you have this surgery, then you really are investing in your voice. Taking good care of it is the same as taking care of an investment. I've become much more aware of taking extremely good care of my voice. Now, it is simply habit.

what a question.  yeah, I can't count how many nights I've laid awake wondering what I could do to scream just like a prepubescent girl?

I don't know if you can or not. But, I do know that even genetic females lose a slight bit of high end range when it comes to screaming. Look at a lot of female vocalists from the old punk rock days. You can hear that slight loss of that high end.

Dear Jordan,

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 02, 2014, 03:17:16 PM
what a question.  yeah, I can't count how many nights I've laid awake wondering what I could do to scream just like a prepubescent girl?

screaming "like a prepubescent girl" is not the point. And I doubt that people other than auditorily-inclined (as opposed to visual/kinesthetic) transwomen whose gender identity was absolutely clear to them by age 12, but who didn't have access to therapy at that time will immediately get the point.

For us, development of a male voice was easily the most devastating part of our adolescence. For me it was, at least. I stopped singing altogether and didn't speak much at all anymore. It took me years to break that shell, and to this day I feel incredibly disabled vocally, and I still have this yearning for the prepubescent past when my voice was still mine, and not just a noisemaker I use to communicate. If Yeson can change that, I'll be happy.

And I think that's the way Paige feels too, that's why she made this posting. Maybe she could have worded it a little "less innocently", but the message of it was clear to me, at a very visceral level.

I hope you understand.

Amy

Quote from: Jennygirl on March 02, 2014, 02:56:45 PM
I am very careful with how much I push it. I do still (and will always) have a vocal tremor so overusing my voice causes damage that takes a few days to repair.

What is a vocal trmor anyways, Jenny? Dr Kim told me I have that too, but I do not know what he means., My Phoniater only looked at the incomplete closure of the vocal chords (which I have gotten rid of largely, it seems with voice therapy) and an assymetry (which also has improved - I wrote it in my thread here). She never said anything about a vocal tremor but Dr Kim told me I have it. I dont know what it is.

I definitely am already now much more careful with my voice and care more about it, relaxing it, not overusing and all that - but part of it being all just natural would for me include that I can for example call back my dog with a scream if she runs away or if I am on a waterslide I usually always scream - I would hate to have to deliberately restrain myself from doing that because it would hurt the voice :\

So I guess this is for me less about squeaking very high pitched, but generally to scream and yell in a regular pitch range... is that working out well, sounding female, causing no issues with the surgery? I kind of am afraid that screaming or yelling might damage the suture somehow as it was the case with that lady I wrote about in another thread but in her case of course it was all just a month post op, so of course that would not happen that easily later but it seems that yelling does put more strain on the sutures ... this would be also the case later on, right? Even if at that point it would not rip anything open anymore I hope.

Vocal tremor can exist anywhere along the vocal path. Sometimes it is in the surrounding muscles and sometimes it is in the vocal cords themselves.

I have been straining my voice for years and that's probably what caused it. Dr Kim diagnosed it as focal laryngeal dystonia.

It's a lot like when your hand starts cramping up from doing too much writing. Your hand can continue to do other tasks but it will immediately cramp if you try to write. That is another type of dystonia, actually.

Basically that happens with my vocal cords where they start to sieze up, and that is why for me relaxation is so important (and why botox helps because it disables the ability for the muscle to unnecessarily contract).

I am actually looking for a good ENT in Los Angeles to do another laryngeal botox injection. Or at the very least I am curious if (now that my voice is healed) it will improve my vocal range. I have a feeling it will.

I am well acquainted with a focal dystonia. More specifically, focal hand dystonia. How? By practising piano too much for an exam. It has proven disastrous for my piano playing and is very depressing. One of the ways to alleviate the symptoms is to inject botox into the muscles of the arm that are affected. This is not optimal as it is a temporary band aid. I've done a lot of research on it, but haven't found a solution short of seeing an expensive clinical specialist in hand therapy. 

Quote from: Jennygirl on March 02, 2014, 06:36:40 AM
Actually, I've been told more than a few times by people I came out to: they wondered if I was trans, but they said they had decided I probably wasn't because of my voice. Even when you aren't looking your best, having a female sounding voice will carry you through.

They were wondering if YOU were trans? Jeez... that's freaking depressing. What hope does that give to the rest of us? I must have a blinking neon sign on my forehead that says "TRANS" then if even you're getting suspected.

Carrie,
Jenny forgot to mention its when she's playfully wearing oversized clothes and a glue on handlebar mustach 
Though even then I'm haveing a hard time picturing her pulling off male 

What about things like laughing, coughing or clearing your throat? Has the quality of those sounds raised in pitch?