I want to finally 'be myself', and cross-dressing won't do it.  I need to look down (and at my face in the mirror) and see a body that more closely resembles what I feel I am inside, a woman.  I've always been this really sensitive (not always considerate) person who, though I am attracted to women, becomes submissive around men, in a girly way.  Anyway.....I am married and we have a son, and I'm having an awful time imagining my son not having a father.  So ..... is it possible to go on HRT, have that female body yet find time to dress like a father and be a father to my son.  To take away my son's father seems paramount to taking away who I am by not transitioning.  Your thoughts?

Your child will have a father either way, just a different one. Live like you want to and be happy because I am sure your child would want that. My 15 year old son was shocked, but now he is accepting and actually called me pretty one day. Kids are amazingly resilient and have no pre conceived notions or attitudes. Kids just want you to be there no matter how you look or dress as long as you are kind and always looking out for their welfare. My son completely accepted me about a month after going full time. How old is your son?

Folk often try, with varying degrees of success, to live a double life privately and publicly.  But it always comes at a great cost and causes them some degree of stress and resentment.  I can only imagine that trying to live a double life at home in terms of your relationship with and presentation to your son would be extremely stressful - I am not sure that this would be easily achieved and maintained .  I assume that you have been honest and upfront with your wife so she is aware of your need to transition and that you intend to take transition strength hormones. 

If you were on low dose HRT I think that it would be easier for you to hide any feminisation from your children.  You may need  to create a fiction around having bad gynocomastia but apart from that I suspect that it is possible.  Having two happy parents living with their child has to be better than having one parent with severe depression or dysphoria who may end up blaming their child for not feminising their body/transitioning.

If you are on full dose HRT then I think it would be difficult to hide from your son.

On the other hand why wouldn't you just be honest with your child from the outset?  Children with same sex parents are not that uncommon so having two moms may not be that big a deal to him as he grows up.

This board is really reserved for the significant others of transpersons, to work on their own issues.  I suggest you ask a moderator, if the is one on the boards right now, to move this for you to MtF talk or some other appropriate board.

This is the board description:

A place for the families (Parents included) of the transgendered to talk about issues they face in their daily lives. Please respect that this is an area for SO only.

To answer your question, yes it's possible, but is it authentic?

I didn't realize that I was in the wrong area.  Sorry about that.  It appears that the topic was moved, yes?  Thank  you mods!  (I will try to pay better attention before creating a thread next time)

* son is seven years old.  He is very smart for his age (homeschooled, no offense intended toward publicly schooled folks out there)
* want for him to have that father figure, at least as long as he recognizes that I am (and always will be) his father
* my family on both sides is very conservative, and right now we attend two churches, neither of them appearing to be accepting of trans
* my current place of employment would NOT be accepting of something like this, though I'm a LONG WAY off from that really being an issue, in terms of physical presence affected by HRT
* i have doubts, especially at my age (soon to be 42) that HRT will ever change my face and body enough for me to pass without makeup, even if I were to have electrolysis
i have no intentions of hurting anyone, i just want to be me and be accepted for who i am, and to be happy.  and hopefully those close to me will see how happy i have become and welcome that from the old me

And, Jessica, you ARE pretty, and going by that picture alone, look very happy with you being you.  Your son is lucky to have a 'mom' like you, and you are lucky to have a son who is so accepting of you.  He is going to be the type of man this world desperately needs to have. 

Quote from: thevaliantx on March 02, 2014, 02:48:04 AM
I didn't realize that I was in the wrong area.  Sorry about that.  It appears that the topic was moved, yes?  Thank  you mods!  (I will try to pay better attention before creating a thread next time)

* son is seven years old.  He is very smart for his age (homeschooled, no offense intended toward publicly schooled folks out there)
* want for him to have that father figure, at least as long as he recognizes that I am (and always will be) his father
* my family on both sides is very conservative, and right now we attend two churches, neither of them appearing to be accepting of trans
* my current place of employment would NOT be accepting of something like this, though I'm a LONG WAY off from that really being an issue, in terms of physical presence affected by HRT
* i have doubts, especially at my age (soon to be 42) that HRT will ever change my face and body enough for me to pass without makeup, even if I were to have electrolysis
i have no intentions of hurting anyone, i just want to be me and be accepted for who i am, and to be happy.  and hopefully those close to me will see how happy i have become and welcome that from the old me

I saw from an earlier post you made you are in Kentucky.  I don't know off the top of my head, but I doubt that state has much in the way of TG/TS protections.

My suggestion is that you start planning for several eventualities.

One would be a change of jobs to a place that has legal protection or to an employer who has a good GLBT track record, if at all possible.

Second, start saving some money/investing.  Divorce lawyers are expensive.  I would buy gold and silver and keep it in a safe deposit box.

Wanting to be a father figure is laudable.  If you are able to stave off the dysphoria for another decade, you can be what you believe your son needs.  My son is now 24 and on his own, doing better than I ever did at that age.  At least I was a success there.

Get out of the unaccepting church situation.  Perhaps find a Unitarian congregation near you.

I understand not wanting to hurt anyone, except in doing so, you are probably hurting yourself.  In my case, I kept it in and ended up with three heart surgeries by the time I was 50.

Yes, Kentucky is definitely not one of the most TG/TS friendly states.  At one point Lexington had a couple of clubs, maybe three, that were advertised as gay-friendly, and the drag shows back in the 90's were really fun to see.  That's mostly gone from Lexington, though.  Not sure what Louisville provides,  being that it's a bigger city it probably has more to offer.  Even the number of therapists in Kentucky serving the LGBT community has dwindled.  My wife agrees that we should look for a church that isn't condoning of things that the Christianity is against, but IS fully accepting of members as they are.  I did mention Unitarian to her.  We will have to travel an hour from home to find one.

As someone who is doing the "living a double life" thing to various degrees for several years now, I can say it takes a very large emotional toll. Finding that balance between both rolls and presentations is difficult. In my case the more I was able to present female the more painfull it became to switch back. The less I present female, the easier it is to say I can just stop alltogether and through the sheer force of will go back to a life of faking being a normal guy. Something I already know does not work. Especially when you get reminded each time you see a body you are comfortable with in the mirror.

Others in my TG support group who have gone full-time said the decision point was based on that I can't take switching back pain. Only my sense of obligation to my wife and to myself to discharge the responsibilities I took on stopped me. When I started taking on the trans beast for real 5 years ago job #1 was to find some way to meld these two great aspects of myself together to form one whole healthy and hopefully happy person. Along the way I discovered where my true joy lies. I still struggle finding a sustainable balance. I know I am just buying time to get me to the point where I can take that fork in the road when I reach it

I tried living the dual life but it became just too much for me. Fortunately my kids are older and are in college; the only casualty to me going toward full time (so far) has been the loss of my marriage. That is a far better proposition that then one I was facing if I kept living the old life; I had a stark choice between living and drinking myself to death so I chose life.

As other have said - kids are amazing and they generally will accept these changes in us - mine did. Their generation grew up with LGBT awareness that we just did not grow up with, so it is just a thing to them. Many of our kids have LGBT friends and they don't think anything of it.

I was born in KY and that state lags behind others in having LGBT rights. As you travel down this road you'll need to find another church, maybe find another place to work, and maybe even consider moving to another state with more LGBT protections.

And 42 is not too old - I'm 51, and I began heading down this road at 45. There are many here that started even later than that; it is never too late to begin living an authentic life. I just wish I had known earlier and started earlier.

I wish you well on this journey.

I rarely cry, and I thank you all for your support.  The last person I want to hurt in this is my wife.  She always wanted that husband.  She wanted someone to love her.  And I was that person (and still am).  So, the pain in all of this stems from this might do to my wife, and the struggles I perceive her having with it.  The fears I have, though, are my wife leaving me and taking our son with her.  She has promised that she will not leave, that we are family, and we have both agreed that it will result in us just being roommates (do you see this as something as positive and doable?).  I can explain all of this to my son, and I will gladly take on that burden and all of his struggles (if any) dealing with it in the coming years.  I can not take losing him again.  That would be it for me.  Period.  Yet, as you all have illustrated, not addressing this by going forward will just leave my son without a dad anyway, and I have some hope in knowing that my wife sees that.  I know this is a skin-deep issue because as much as I do not care for wearing men's clothes I haven't yet gone looking for my wife's panties (and won't, lol), dresses or pants.  So, onward we go....

Quote from: thevaliantx on March 02, 2014, 01:16:36 PM
I know this is a skin-deep issue because as much as I do not care for wearing men's clothes I haven't yet gone looking for my wife's panties (and won't, lol), dresses or pants.  So, onward we go....

Have ever dressed as female before? How would you feel about doing that all day, every day with no escape? How would you feel about being treated like a woman: being hit on by guys and having them grab you, being talked about as if you weren't even there, being vulnerable, being constantly aware of your appearance. Those are just some of the ways, minor ones, in which your life will change. And that's if your lucky.

I never intended this thread to be about whether I could, or would want to, transition successfully.  This thread is about whether it is doable for someone who is willing to give up some of who they are to better the existence of others. 

But, yes, I have dressed as female before (this is not my first go at transitioning and HRT), I know the struggles of trying to 'pass' and I have NO problem with being admired by guys or being treated as a woman (I'm pretty submissive by nature). 

Did you have anything in mind as it pertains to living a double life?  If so, please do share!

Eva, I would have NEVER guessed you were 51.  You look far younger than that, to my eyes, maybe 30's or something. 

Would you happen to know which states have better LGBT protections?  It would be cool to see some sort of 'ranking' of them, based on different criteria.  For me I would prefer to live in farm country that is hilly or with mountains, with a four-season climate. 

My wife and I talked today, and she asked me whether I wanted to continue working in factories, or seek work that is "more for women".  I've always thought it would be neat to work as a hair stylist, but the idea of messing up someone's hair just scares me.  I've also thought of going back to school to learn accounting (or do some other math-centered discipline), but am I smart enough?  The money would be great in it, though, and greatly help me to further my transition (and provide for my family and our dreams).

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 02, 2014, 01:58:16 PM
Have ever dressed as female before? How would you feel about doing that all day, every day with no escape? How would you feel about being treated like a woman: being hit on by guys and having them grab you, being talked about as if you weren't even there, being vulnerable, being constantly aware of your appearance. Those are just some of the ways, minor ones, in which your life will change. And that's if your lucky.

wow, any more encouraging words you'd like to add?

See my thread about living stealth for long periods there is a lot of great posts there.

I lead the double life.  Here's the thing

A really good therapist is crucial.  Mine saved my marrage.  It takes a lot of work, and discovering each others comfort zones and sticking to them. 

My wife and I are not roommates, I sleep in her arms every night.  But this came at great cost.

The dysphoria crushed me but in my particualar case I have no desire to go out the front door transitioned visibly.  Don't know why, its unusual for a mtf and I am definitely TS.

We have a Christian section on the board with some real good folk in there.

You can try stealth in a conservative church that doesn't gay bash.  I am stealth in a pentacostal church.  Its none of their business, they wont understand, and the research can be found here on acceptance and peace with a strong belief system.

Sacrifices for the wife and kid are worth it.  I have one kid that can't even handle my fingernails.  I brought her with me to the shrink.  It helped.

It is unpredictable how HRT will affect you in the future.  It affects us all differently.  I still don't know how it will affect me.

The decision for HRT is not a light one.  Research it carefully, examine the consequences.  Then make an informed decision, and wait for that hormone letter, the shrink is supposed to have your best interest in mind.  And full time experience is not required for hormones, I did not have to do it.

Vent out your concerns here and with professional help.

Know you are not alone.

Know you are not cut off from Christ, He knows how to take you through this, He did me.  Again go to our Christianity board.

The dysphoria is powerful, don't underestimate it.  Professional help is essential especially when loved ones are caught up in it.

Finally, I have a wonderful, happy family life.  Time will tell if it is sustainable, but I have high hopes that it will be.

We are all different.  Be totally honest with yourself and deeply sensitive to what others can and cannot handle as they go through the shock experience.  It's real hard on them.  Don't give them more than they can handle and don't lie to them.

There is a lot for you just understanding your identity right now.  Nurture them, play with them, understand them, love them, and don't cross into their discomfort zones unless you have to.  In time those zones may change.  That may save your marriage.  The dysphoria asks a lot of our wives, and so do we.

God Bless.  Seek His heart in prayer.  You will know the answers if you can get your fear out of the way and hear Him.

As everyone says, there's no way to know what HRT will do for you. It's possible you could go indefinitely on a relatively low dose and have everything play out the way you'd imagined....  It could also end the way it did for me; six months on low-dose HRT and I had zero chance of ever passing male again.

Since you tried out HRT before, though, you probably *do* have a good sense of how your body responds - you can extrapolate from that to whether it will be possible to present male long-term. (What a huge sacrifice to offer for the sake of your son and your wife, too.)

Thanks for replying, but whether I will pass with HRT isn't the premise of this thread.  I'm in the process of uploading pics of myself and will probably post them in the passing forum.   That does lead me to wondering whether others have reached the point of 50/50 failing as a male and were content with that. 

My apologies; I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about passing with HRT per se - I was saying that I *had to* come out as female publicly because the changes happened too fast and too permanently for me to go back. That's not common, and you doubtless have reason to suspect it won't happen for you, but I could not have lived as a father or remained quiet about my transition at that point.

(I hit the androgynous/50-50 point around two months, and had passed it by four months. I'm not bragging - it kind of upended my life that I had to come out that soon and unequivocally. I'd planned to wait longer before risking my job and extended family.)

Quote from: thevaliantx on March 02, 2014, 02:50:36 AM
And, Jessica, you ARE pretty, and going by that picture alone, look very happy with you being you.  Your son is lucky to have a 'mom' like you, and you are lucky to have a son who is so accepting of you.  He is going to be the type of man this world desperately needs to have.

Thank you for the kind words!
That picture was only a couple of months on HRT. I started HRT at 47, so yes, it can work for you. You have the opportunity to raise your son this way as well. Show him what it is to be courageous, happy, comfortable in your own skin and to heck with what others say. It is YOUR life.