Quote from: Eva Marie on March 01, 2014, 09:57:40 AM
Weak father - check

Strong, domineering mother - check

Close to mother - bzzzzzzt......

My wife tried to convince me that I am trans because of my mother, because my wife had run ins with my mother and knows whats she's like after that experience. I never believed it but I ran her theory by my therapist. This is what she said:

Your wife's conclusions are very interesting. The same theory was espoused by Alfred Hitchcock in the movie "Psycho" concerning Norman Bates and his mother. Gender dysphoria is, however, biological - we have discarded the mother-blaming theories a long time ago, since they just didn't hold up.

yes, Alfred is one of my favorites

I know I am a FTM, but I found this topic really interesting, My father was never there either, he split and my parents were divorced around the time I was born, so I became really close to my mom, who was domineering, so maybe it has the opposite effects for mothers and daughters in this scenario, where I feel like I need to be the man of the house and the strong one since my mom was working and doing her best to raise me, just found this interesting. I know gender dysphoria is biological, but I can see how theories like these pop up.

(DID survivor of childhood trauma with male and female alters chiming in)

Perhaps not transsexualism, but it is widely accepted by the psychological community that this kind of upbringing/relationship can play into a person needing to express themself as their gender not assigned at birth. It is quite common for people suffering from dissociative identity disorder/multiple personality disorder (DID/MPD) to have male and female alters.

In addition to a string of life threatening trauma, my early childhood was as you describe. With my innate ability to dissociate, I was able to break away from my mother's psychological fusion as an adolescent with a strong male alter and go on to live  a very happy life. I was diagnosed as a transsexual in denial in 2009 when my female alter became self conscious and the ensuing battle for control of the body manifest itself as gender dysphoria. Despite my insistence that I did NOT want to be a girl, my gender therapist continued to push me to transition. Shrug. When the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Thank God I did not take her advice.

On switching to a new psychologist, I was diagnosed as an androgyne with adjustment disorder. A transition level of HRT brought psychological peace and my male and female alters continued to live completely separate lives to satisfy each one's narcissistic needs. Three years of therapy later with the onset of time/memory loss, flashback and nightmares, I was correctly diagnosed with PTSD and recommended for trauma recovery therapy.

I have been in psychodynamic treatment twice a week for DID for the last 2 years. Regardless of whether my 5 alters fuse or my male and female alters continue to need to maintain their separate lives, I am beginning to understand my childhood and the effect it had on me. The consolation of truth is peace.

Is it conclusive that it's all biological?  I don't know because I'd imagine that certain social factors must play a role in how we experience gender as well as aiding us in finding our own identity in life.  I'm really open to the idea that my upbringing may have influenced my perception of gender.  While I used to feel I need to claim born this way as it has been with me since I was a kid and hasn't gone away regardless of all the effort I put into getting rid of the feelings, I'm really okay with it if it wasn't the case.   It's still as much of a part of me if it is socially based rather than biological.  And you and I don't need to prove ourselves to anyone.  We are who we are and it's our right to be ourselves.  So, I don't really mind social theories all too much.  Even if they aren't right in the end, it shouldn't matter as long as they aren't used against us (and I realize that some are and that's wrong). 

Quote from: learningtolive on March 02, 2014, 09:53:22 AM
Is it conclusive that it's all biological?  I don't know because I'd imagine that certain social factors must play a role in how we experience gender as well as aiding us in finding our own identity in life. 

I think that, although the biological explanation is much more reasonable, we can't deny completely the psycological part. Perhaps the psycological is nothing more than a trigger. The way we have learned to see the world can activate hidden feelings and desires and make them flourish.

A lot of people have dominating mothers and strong bounds with them, but, sure, not all are transsexuals. But, perhaps, those who share this kind of history AND have the "transsexualism biological factor" (let's call it this way) can have their gender disphoria triggered, making our desires to live as the opposite gender really proeminent.

Perhaps (who knows?) if my history was different, then perhaps I could keep living the way I was, even with the biological part trying to tell me the opposite.

Hi,
My personal belief is, this is how I'm wired. I would still be gender variant even if I were raised by different parents.

I'm a firm believer that it's a physiology (whether it be DNA or something else) and not a social environmental influence. If may be that it's common for a child born as male who is transgender finds it easier to bond with their mother because they have a female brain. In my case, I was closer to my mom and than my dad. My dad was there and tried to be close, but he would try to beat the feminine nature that was in me. (Why transitioned later in life.) My parents separated 3 times (divorced on the last one when I was 12), but I spend 2 weekdays and every other weekend with him. (The lived in the same school district, so I just took two different buses depending on who I was staying with.)

Another thing is that as a child and as an adult, it has always been easier to associate and form friendships with women that it was with men. So I think the study is looking at the result more than the cause.

My mother never really liked my and used to beat me with a shoe. Explain me please? lol.
It's a silly generalisation if you ask me, but then again, nobody did, so I will shut up!

I have zero relationship with my mother.  I speak to her once, maybe twice per year at most.

That said, I have a faint suspicion that this might still have something to do with my trans issues.  It can't all just be nature, right?  Surely there's some nurture in there as well (or lack of it)?

I'm inclined to think that as far as the "why"... well, there are a million threads describing a million commonalities among people. Some identifying with one, some identifying with more than one, but all woven together into the tapestry of life. And I think it's this tapestry which should be admired, rather than the threads which went into it.

Although I'm feeling rather emotional today, so I'll address the OP with regard to my own experience.

My father was... well... a grade-A miscreant. The sum total of everything bad in this world. He left me and my two brothers to fend for ourselves at a very young age, and my mother... well... she was an emotional wreck after the whole thing. That being said, it was the best thing he ever did. He was abusive, violent (physically and sexually, but I will say no more of that here), lazy, quick to blame the rest of the world for his shortcomings... and, yeah, basically an all round bad egg. So him leaving was, overall, the best thing that happened.

Because of this, I guess it could be said I developed a closer bond with my mother. Simply by virtue of her being the only immediate parental figure I had. However, in that time she hated herself, and blamed herself as a woman for caring about him. She attributed all of her weaknesses on being female, and tried to instil that in me. That I had to be strong because it was in my genes. That I had to take control of situations because I hadn't been born "some stupid, naïve girl who didn't know better".

Not to mention my grandfather. I idolised him. I mean properly idolised him. He built his life up from nothing. One of ten children in the 1930's, he was the typical "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy. Made and lost a fortune because people played him for a fool since he was too nice to others and gave them whatever they wanted. He stepped up to the plate and became a sort of fill in father figure for me. And probably the best one I could have ever hoped for. Had I been a man, I would have wanted to be like him. Or have his traits. I guess I still do, in a way.

If anything, all the signs were pushing me towards being like my grandfather, and wanting me to be like he was. Part of me will always try to be, because he was one of the best people I've ever known.

But... uh... yeah... I guess what I'm saying is that given my relationship, or lack thereof, with my father... I don't think it was my relationship with my mother or anyone else which caused me to be who I am. I think rather I found myself and acknowledged the aspects of people close to me along the way.

My father was not distant.  My mother was not domineering.  If this theory has any merit, it does not apply to me.  But, I do believe that most things can be arrived at from more than one angle.  Anyway, the biological explanation has always rung true for me.

I am starting to think that TG issues could be (for some) a sort of "safety" valve, like in a pressure cooker.

That explains later transitions, at least could explain mine, in the sense that some TS-TG, maybe for character or
biological differences, have a Disphoria that can be maintained at a safety level for years... than a trigger event
or a series of events make the pressure build up.

A "normal" man may have other safety valves: alcohol, drugs, dangerous sports, and also some of TS before
coming out to themselves have tried those routes. Then a "normal" man stays man, we TS have also this
other safety measure.

My experience seems to be The polar opposite to this theory I am the only boy in a family of 4 and the eldest .I had a totaly Macho he man type father .But my mother absolutely hated Boys me included .So no matter what I did it was not good enough always had look at how lovely your sisters look or how well behaved they are even though I was doing the same as them .The girls as all siblings do soon worked out that they could blame Me for everything so they ganged up and said I did it even if I was not there at the time.and Mum would always believe them .But the hard part for Me was that I was far more like Mum than I was my Dad .Mum was a Bright inteligent woman in a high power Job ,Dad was just working on a building site and hab no Time for education .And I was deemed as well above average inteligence and naturally was inclined towards my Mum for support but never got it always being put down and compared to the Girls one of whom was even brighter than Me so I got an exelent report from School she got a better one and Mum put me down with it .All I ever wanted was to please her but never could .I think some of my Transgender feelings come from wishing I was a girl so Mum would love Me too.In her defence I later found out after Mum died that she had such a bad time giving birth to Me that she nearly Died and could not forgive Me for the pain and suffering she felt.I truly believe that if I was a Girl my life would have been so very different .The sort of thing that I suffered was this sort of thing .Mum wanted to go to spain on a family holliday all the girls went but I was sent to stay at my Nan's as she would not have Me around Her.So a Nurturing Mum in my case was absolutely not a factor in my transgender development

for me it's nothing more than genetics. I developed this situation when I was 4. Absolutely nothing in my environment from four onwards was anything other then normal loving parents and the same environment everyone  else dealt with.  There could of been things in the environment ,but I didn't see them And I've analyzed my past quite critically.

Time for the guilty parent in me to jump in:
My darling child has a Strong Mother, but Dad was a bit of a bully. He is masculine, and not very passive. He is much mellower in his aging and has become somewhat "wussified" in recent years. Oh and the arguments over our 20+ years have been a deeply scarring experience to our kid.  So, some of the theory put forth can be seen as parallel.  But I see the strong bond stuff as a result of the child's general nature to begin. We can try to 'blame' environment, but forget that the association may go both ways. Is it a cause or a result of one's nature?
I prefer to see my kid as a whole person. We parents won't be around forever. She will become her own self, as a product of her genetics and nurture. I refuse to allow 'blame'. It doesn't fix anything.

Quote from: tbunny on March 03, 2014, 12:53:42 PM
Time for the guilty parent in me to jump in:
My darling child has a Strong Mother, but Dad was a bit of a bully. He is masculine, and not very passive. He is much mellower in his aging and has become somewhat "wussified" in recent years. Oh and the arguments over our 20+ years have been a deeply scarring experience to our kid.  So, some of the theory put forth can be seen as parallel.  But I see the strong bond stuff as a result of the child's general nature to begin. We can try to 'blame' environment, but forget that the association may go both ways. Is it a cause or a result of one's nature?
I prefer to see my kid as a whole person. We parents won't be around forever. She will become her own self, as a product of her genetics and nurture. I refuse to allow 'blame'. It doesn't fix anything.

Oh yeah, I don't think blaming is really productive.  However, I do wonder if the strong influence of my mother and sisters did play a role in me becoming who I am.  I'm sure it's impacted me in many different ways, so is it such a stretch to imagine my early ideas of gender were formed with what I experienced around me?  I'm not sure.  All I know is that I've been "me" for so long and that I couldn't change this.  I'll accept born this way as it makes sense, but I'm open to learning more about myself if it can help me understand who I am.  And learning to understand who I am is one of the first steps to learning to love myself which is still a work in progress. 

Quote from: Sephirah on March 02, 2014, 06:07:21 PM
I'm inclined to think that as far as the "why"... well, there are a million threads describing a million commonalities among people. Some identifying with one, some identifying with more than one, but all woven together into the tapestry of life. And I think it's this tapestry which should be admired, rather than the threads which went into it.

Although I'm feeling rather emotional today, so I'll address the OP with regard to my own experience.

My father was... well... a grade-A miscreant. The sum total of everything bad in this world. He left me and my two brothers to fend for ourselves at a very young age, and my mother... well... she was an emotional wreck after the whole thing. That being said, it was the best thing he ever did. He was abusive, violent (physically and sexually, but I will say no more of that here), lazy, quick to blame the rest of the world for his shortcomings... and, yeah, basically an all round bad egg. So him leaving was, overall, the best thing that happened.

Because of this, I guess it could be said I developed a closer bond with my mother. Simply by virtue of her being the only immediate parental figure I had. However, in that time she hated herself, and blamed herself as a woman for caring about him. She attributed all of her weaknesses on being female, and tried to instil that in me. That I had to be strong because it was in my genes. That I had to take control of situations because I hadn't been born "some stupid, naïve girl who didn't know better".

Not to mention my grandfather. I idolised him. I mean properly idolised him. He built his life up from nothing. One of ten children in the 1930's, he was the typical "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy. Made and lost a fortune because people played him for a fool since he was too nice to others and gave them whatever they wanted. He stepped up to the plate and became a sort of fill in father figure for me. And probably the best one I could have ever hoped for. Had I been a man, I would have wanted to be like him. Or have his traits. I guess I still do, in a way.

If anything, all the signs were pushing me towards being like my grandfather, and wanting me to be like he was. Part of me will always try to be, because he was one of the best people I've ever known.

But... uh... yeah... I guess what I'm saying is that given my relationship, or lack thereof, with my father... I don't think it was my relationship with my mother or anyone else which caused me to be who I am. I think rather I found myself and acknowledged the aspects of people close to me along the way.

That was beautiful Seph.  Thank you for sharing. 

QuoteHe says that the transexualism may be caused by a strong bound between mother and son that never fades away, leading to an intense symbiosis between them. The son sees on the mother a model and identifies with her as a woman.
Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.
These marriages are often kept for many years, with constant arguments and without love or sex between wife and husband.

This is pretty close to my upbringing. Except my father had no concept of a passive nature, but he was very distant. 

I don't feel this has a connection to my dysphoria.

Okay, sure, there's a million theories out there as to the big'ol 'why' question but, in reality, we have no freaking clue. Science has guesses, psychology has guesses, religions have guesses but, at the end of the day, it just kinda is what it is.

You'll find plenty of peeps here that have similar stories but, statistically, that's 1 out of every 10 marriages that end this way and has gone up for a long, long time. If everyone who had a strong mother (something that happened a lot more in the late 70's, early 80's and thereafter) and a not-there dad went trans, we'd have millions and millions of trans peeps all over the country. We don't and furthermore, not every trans story goes like this. Perhaps 1/2 and a loooot of peeps on this board have this experience because the breakup of those families left many of us in more fragile mental states.

Correlation is not causation, cupcakes.

Do your thing. Don't worry so much about the why. It just leads to chasing your tail for no good reason... and you'll not get a satisfying answer until someone with a lot of money, a lot of interest, a couple of PhD's and a lot of their peers gets on this topic for 50 or so years (which is to say, probably not for a loooong time, sweetpeas.)