Quote from: stephaniec on March 02, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
well, here I go into unfriendly waters, but I really think people are making way to big of issue of being seen as trans, No matter how you look at it if you came out of the womb as one gender and physically change to another gender your trans. You were probably your proper gender before you came out of the womb ,but physically wrong. Yea societies  idea of what's proper and what's not is screwed up but it also changes with knowledge and understanding. I just find it incredibly difficult to understand what's wrong with being a transgender. It's undeniably what you are no and , if's or buts about it. You can have the world view you as "cis" if you want but really your not. Can't we just accept ourselves and move forward. To be honest to deny how I physically presented to the world the past 40 or more years is some what ludicrous . I'm sorry even if you're allowed to change gender at 12 you're still a transgender . Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to accept who you are and have society evolve to view all the different colors of the human species are part of natures beauty than forever viewed as the broken branch that doesn't belong. Transgenders    will never go away as long as we have a male and female aspect to our species. The only way for positive change in society is for positive change in our view of ourselves .I'm sorry I just needed to get this out. I truly mean to cause no harm to any one its just a point of view expressed on an open forum. As far as I'm concerned as long as I'm can walk around as a female I'm happy.

I accept myself as I am, but I don't really feel like "taking on the world".  Likely things are nowhere near as bad as what I imagine, so that won't be too much of an issue (hopefully).  However, I'm really not in the mood for fixing societies problems just so I can live my life.  Sure, I'm all for progress and contributing to it in my own way, but I'd like to ensure that the basic amenities of life are within my reach and not denied to me for something I didn't ask for.  If I can pass and avoid dealing with more struggles, it just makes sense for me to do that.  Eventually, society will be advanced to a stage where stealth may not be needed, but I don't think we are there yet.  Again, I'm sure living out as transgender isn't nearly as bad as I fear, but why creating potential for discrimination if you can just as easily live life with inner pride without exposing yourself.  Just my take. 

Quote from: stephaniec on March 02, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
well, here I go into unfriendly waters, but I really think people are making way to big of issue of being seen as trans, No matter how you look at it if you came out of the womb as one gender and physically change to another gender your trans. You were probably your proper gender before you came out of the womb ,but physically wrong. Yea societies  idea of what's proper and what's not is screwed up but it also changes with knowledge and understanding. I just find it incredibly difficult to understand what's wrong with being a transgender. It's undeniably what you are no and , if's or buts about it. You can have the world view you as "cis" if you want but really your not. Can't we just accept ourselves and move forward. To be honest to deny how I physically presented to the world the past 40 or more years is some what ludicrous . I'm sorry even if you're allowed to change gender at 12 you're still a transgender . Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to accept who you are and have society evolve to view all the different colors of the human species are part of natures beauty than forever viewed as the broken branch that doesn't belong. Transgenders    will never go away as long as we have a male and female aspect to our species. The only way for positive change in society is for positive change in our view of ourselves .I'm sorry I just needed to get this out. I truly mean to cause no harm to any one its just a point of view expressed on an open forum. As far as I'm concerned as long as I'm can walk around as a female I'm happy.

That is lovely that you have made peace with who you are, it's just not as easy to accept for everyone. I am not an individualistic person at all so I naturally want to be more normal and just like everybody else. That is just how it is for me. Telling myself I should accept it and move on just makes it more stressful because I can't just change who I am like that.

I like it Steph.

I just wish I could be more comfortable on the street, stealth or not stealth.

I will probably never reach or try to reach passing on the street as female.  Being  transwoman validates me, as both male and female standards are out of reach, leaving me feeling like an outcast.  Especially as a preop/no-op.

Got challenged today - all it takes is a look - and went right into male survival presentation mode.  Crud.  Stupid societal boundaries anyway.  Supposed to protect the innocent not pick on us.  Crap.

So I identify at least to myself as transwoman and seeing that as valuable, important, and nurturing, and I really come out right here on the board, where my true personality begins to show forth.  In ways  that surprize me.

Then I go stealth male role again once out the door.

I am so screwed up from childhood and adult persecution.  How am I ever going to get over it.

Tired today.  Felt out of place, like I wasn't like anyone at all that I know of any gender, except here.

Thanks girls.

Quote from: anjaq on March 02, 2014, 12:50:02 PM
I am not sure either how to solve this. I had little issues up to now with others as my past was neutral enough to tell most of it no problem and i transitioned at 23. I thought of myself as a transwoman or transgender for some years, but really since i internally dripped that identification and acknowledged that my identity is just that of a woman who had to deal with a sex misassignment at birth due to some genetic issue, i feel better. That is how i see myself and i try to formulate answers to other people that brings that across. Using the shortcut transgender does not describe me well as it provokes different associations in other people. Occacionally i use transsexual if i have to disclose to a doctor to get my hrt or such. It still doen not fit, but is a better match. So "woman with a transsexual past" is maybe good - "bsbds woman" would be better but that label is not yet in use by many

I  definitely think BSBDS woman is definitely a better term . Everybody will just say women because BSBDS woman doesn't make for easy conversation if every other word is BSBDS woman

Satinjoy, don't pull yourself down there. I dont know your situation but lots of people made it to leave behind the forcefully applied male role and the wrong hormones acting on the body and all that - if this is what you really need, you will be able to do this eventually. To be in "survival mode" all life lon gis not a good state and I am not sure for how long that can last. Do what makes you happy.

Quote from: stephaniec on March 02, 2014, 08:30:57 PM
I  definitely think BSBDS woman is definitely a better term . Everybody will just say women because BSBDS woman doesn't make for easy conversation if every other word is BSBDS woman

Hehe - yeah - that is a good effect too. Of course it is just a new word, but I think personally bsBDS describes me better than the other words. (Seems like some people use "B-Women" as a short for it though which is not the perfect abbreviation I think). I think that Acronym is not widespread yet - some people in Germany use it a lot, but its not mainstream, so I can only give links with detailled descriptions of the theory behind it in German (http://www.trans-evidence.com/Sie_sind_Ihr_Gehirn) - basically it is about a biological background for "transsexuality" - the brain is female, the rest of the body is in discrepancy to that and is shaped in a male way, the person whose identity and persona is located in the brain then feels a discrepancy which needs to be corrected by changing the rest of the body. It kind of is a focus on the purely physical/biological/body-image side of the issue and not on the issues with social roles, which are more a consequence of this discrepancy.

Edit-P.S.: The terms I used are part of the movement to move transsexuality away from the ICD classification block F (Mental and behavioural disorders) to the block Q (Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities). Is there a movement in the US already that tried to reach that?

I'm with Peky, my gender , personality, whatever, hasn't changed. I'm the same as I ever was, just calmer or happier or however you put it.

Hmm transgender? I don't know but if someone would call me a transgender woman (after srs), i would be very upset. Cause my gender is female. Transgender means like we're neither female or male. I'd prefer preoperative transwoman. And after the surgery only woman. 

Quote from: beren_ts on March 03, 2014, 06:04:30 AM
Hmm transgender? I don't know but if someone would call me a transgender woman (after srs), i would be very upset. Cause my gender is female. Transgender means like we're neither female or male. I'd prefer preoperative transwoman. And after the surgery only woman. 

I really dont wish to upset or insult anyone , just my personal opinion...
but even after the surgery you are still a transwoman etc

We mtf are women we always have been...
just not biological though...

But still not wanting others to call you by the term trans seems rational to me...
cis women/trans women...they are both women...so yeah we are women

kinda,,i messed my thoughts here but whatever

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 03, 2014, 08:07:56 AM
I really dont wish to upset or insult anyone , just my personal opinion...
but even after the surgery you are still a transwoman etc

We mtf are women we always have been...
just not biological though...

But still not wanting others to call you by the term trans seems rational to me...
cis women/trans women...they are both women...so yeah we are women

kinda,,i messed my thoughts here but whatever

yea, we are women. MY brain has viewed life growing up in a far more feminine way. I can't really say what thought processes would of occurred if I would of been put on estrogen when I stared dressing in girls clothes at 4. It would of been great if that would of happened. All I know now that its a perfect fit for me. I considered myself as always being female . So yea, I'm woman but I'm also transgender because my past is my past. I don't know I could be missing a few marbles some where , but it doesn't seem to be such a big deal seeing your self as trans.

First you can phrase things a little bit differently and adjust your narrative a bit so it is true, but leaves out certain details and you can move forward without feeling like you are lying about anything.

The way I handle it is I am not ashamed of my past, and will own it proudly if it comes to light, but I consider it private info that is rarely relevant and don't openly share it with anybody.  And yeah my narrative is adjusted, I will never say 'when I was a little boy' mostly because I do not believe I was ever a boy.  I did live as one though.  Anyway, I usually just say, 'when I was little' or something along those lines.  It works.

The term transgender, nope I don't use that.   Trans woman, ok, that one is fine I suppose. Adjective noun, like tall woman.  It's ok.   No transgender, no acronym nobody has heard of, and I avoid transsexual cause I just don't like how it sounds, but meh, I will use that one too in a pinch.

While I can understand the urge to get away from the word trans, substituting an acronym that no one knows is not going to help.

I make no secret of my past. I don't edit the stories, I tell them as they happened.

Quote from: kelly_aus on March 04, 2014, 04:07:50 PM
While I can understand the urge to get away from the word trans, substituting an acronym that no one knows is not going to help.

I make no secret of my past. I don't edit the stories, I tell them as they happened.

There is a difference between editing a story and adjusting a narrative to match the truth of things better or to be less confusing/distracting from whatever the point is you may be making.   I would not do the former. And the latter?  Everybody omits irrelevant details from stories allllll the time.  If they didn't, all stories would be so tedious and full of addenda and errata we would never get anything done.   There is nothing to feel guilty about for telling your story however you want, just don't lie, that's all.

And if you do feel guilty, then disclose everything, why not?  You make the rules.  We are all the stewards of our life's narrative, we get to chose how it is constructed.

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 03, 2014, 08:07:56 AM
We mtf are women we always have been...
just not biological though...

I don't mean to disagree with you (and in fact I don't! I am just raising this as I think its interesting discussion) but, do you mean designated female at birth rather than 'biological'? There are 'cis' girls who are not 'XX'. There are multiple forms of genders, both genetically, psychologically and physiologically, who are assigned to binary genders at birth, who are either 'trans' or not, depending on where the x was marked on the page. Who does define what gender sombody was born as,  how is it defined and how do we know when somebody has transitioned it?

If I am xy but phenotypically female, what is my gender? If  am xy, psychologically male but phenotypically female, what is my gender? In order to decide whether one has trans-ed genders, then one must define gender and *that* isn't so straight forward.

I suppose its easy to decide what it means to you, wher you draw the line, but generally people don't agree. I suppose, having reflected on it, I would like to define gender as who you are when you close your eyes. The rest is just biology, like colour of your hair, heght, cleft palate, whatever. If that where true then none of us would have changed gender so much as had to correct body discrepancies. I suppose that is the push from another thread, that talks about renaming transgender to, was it brain sex body discrepancy?

Waffle waffle

syrup.

Quote from: Jen on March 04, 2014, 04:43:09 PM
There is a difference between editing a story and adjusting a narrative to match the truth of things better or to be less confusing/distracting from whatever the point is you may be making.   I would not do the former. And the latter?  Everybody omits irrelevant details from stories allllll the time.  If they didn't, all stories would be so tedious and full of addenda and errata we would never get anything done.   There is nothing to feel guilty about for telling your story however you want, just don't lie, that's all.

And if you do feel guilty, then disclose everything, why not?  You make the rules.  We are all the stewards of our life's narrative, we get to chose how it is constructed.

What I meant is that I don't modify a story from my past to make it seem like I was a woman at the time..

Quote from: kelly_aus on March 04, 2014, 06:31:58 PM
What I meant is that I don't modify a story from my past to make it seem like I was a woman at the time..

I'm ambivalent about doing that but how do you deal with the awkwardness of it when meeting new people? When I can tell that a virtual stranger literally has no idea, it's hugely distracting to be talking about something completely different and then having to distract from the conversation by explaining that I was a boy as a kid.

Quote from: anjaq on March 03, 2014, 04:37:40 AM
Satinjoy, don't pull yourself down there. I dont know your situation but lots of people made it to leave behind the forcefully applied male role and the wrong hormones acting on the body and all that - if this is what you really need, you will be able to do this eventually. To be in "survival mode" all life lon gis not a good state and I am not sure for how long that can last. Do what makes you happy.
Hehe - yeah - that is a good effect too. Of course it is just a new word, but I think personally bsBDS describes me better than the other words. (Seems like some people use "B-Women" as a short for it though which is not the perfect abbreviation I think). I think that Acronym is not widespread yet - some people in Germany use it a lot, but its not mainstream, so I can only give links with detailled descriptions of the theory behind it in German (http://www.trans-evidence.com/Sie_sind_Ihr_Gehirn) - basically it is about a biological background for "transsexuality" - the brain is female, the rest of the body is in discrepancy to that and is shaped in a male way, the person whose identity and persona is located in the brain then feels a discrepancy which needs to be corrected by changing the rest of the body. It kind of is a focus on the purely physical/biological/body-image side of the issue and not on the issues with social roles, which are more a consequence of this discrepancy.

Edit-P.S.: The terms I used are part of the movement to move transsexuality away from the ICD classification block F (Mental and behavioural disorders) to the block Q (Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities). Is there a movement in the US already that tried to reach that?

It doesn't look like there's much of a movement , but could be wrong nothing on internet yet but I'm researching

Quote from: mandonlym on March 04, 2014, 08:44:16 PM
I'm ambivalent about doing that but how do you deal with the awkwardness of it when meeting new people? When I can tell that a virtual stranger literally has no idea, it's hugely distracting to be talking about something completely different and then having to distract from the conversation by explaining that I was a boy as a kid.

Unless they ask questions, I don't bother explaining.

What does it mean to be born as a woman or be a biological woman - what is the thing that defines gender. To me it is the brain and in that sense I am a biological female and was born a birl but I had the wrong gonads and thus my whole body developed in the wrong way. I dont like to fixate gender on the genitals at birth - obviously this is wrong - or at the chromosomes - even worse ... so If someone asks me if I was born a man, male or as a boy - I will say no as this is how I have come to see it. And it is not a lie.

Quote from: anjaq on March 06, 2014, 05:38:16 PM
What does it mean to be born as a woman or be a biological woman - what is the thing that defines gender. To me it is the brain and in that sense I am a biological female and was born a birl but I had the wrong gonads and thus my whole body developed in the wrong way. I dont like to fixate gender on the genitals at birth - obviously this is wrong - or at the chromosomes - even worse ... so If someone asks me if I was born a man, male or as a boy - I will say no as this is how I have come to see it. And it is not a lie.

I feel the same way.

Quote from: anjaq on March 06, 2014, 05:38:16 PM
What does it mean to be born as a woman or be a biological woman - what is the thing that defines gender. To me it is the brain and in that sense I am a biological female and was born a birl but I had the wrong gonads and thus my whole body developed in the wrong way. I dont like to fixate gender on the genitals at birth - obviously this is wrong - or at the chromosomes - even worse ... so If someone asks me if I was born a man, male or as a boy - I will say no as this is how I have come to see it. And it is not a lie.

I totally agree the more I live and try to understand my self and why I've lived and thought and reacted to my environment the way I have, I have to assume my brain developed female . It's really the only explanation for why I'm like the way I am. My dreams have evolved along a progression of castration to full womanhood and that's my subconscious talking which is a result of my brain being wired that way. My brain has been like this since birth. My brain has develop female and body tried to compensate.