Indeed, this is the reason why some end up cycling it BUT many women also take it continuously without their feminization, breast growth being compromised at all. In fact, many find it helps them a lot, increases breast growth (giving them also a more natural, rounded appearance), gives their skin a more youthful appearance, makes it softer (hair too), helps with nails, improves how they feel overall, etc. My own experience thus far seems to confirm this. It adds to the beneficial effect on mood of E, to the actions of E on breasts, etc. So, either way, just see how you respond and if things are going well, then why change anything? If not, then cycle or stop taking it altogether. It's that simple.

My journey on P continues. 9 days. For the second time in that period, I took Prometrium rectally on top of my oral dose to see if it made a difference. I'm just trying to see how rectal compares to oral. This is, after having read on several sites for women who are trying to become pregnant, that Prometrium, Utrogestan is sometimes taken that way but mostly vaginally and orally. Some transsexual women have also reported that Utrogestan taken rectally worked well for them. And finally, studies have shown that vaginal administration of Utrogestan (like with Estrace) is quite effective and gives higher levels vs oral. This is not my first time trying it this way as I went through a trial period of a few days back in 2012 when I took it that way and how I feel now on oral prometrium vs rectal is pretty much the same, except for the dizziness/drowsiness factor that hits me 1-2 hours after oral intake, which is very bothersome. This is mainly the reason I want to test out the rectal, to avoid this AND to get a more natural (higher also) level of progesterone relative to its metabolites which are responsible for the sedative effects.

First day I tried Prometrium rectally, I felt extremely calm, very zen. Like a constant inner peace that lasted probably about 12 hours. But, also kind of spaced out. Breasts also seemed to be much more swollen than usual. Same thing today so far, in terms of how I feel, except it's even better and the spaced out feeling is much less. At this point, I'm really tempted to switch to rectal.

This is my own personal experience. In no way do I suggest any of you do the same but if you do, always consult your doctor before. Be safe.

I'm wondering, I should be starting HRT soon and Finasteride is only covered here for cancer patients. I've already lost way more hair than I'd like and without the anti-DHT effects of Finasteride I'm pretty sure it would take a lot longer to get that hair loss stopped. I saw mention of Progesterone having anti-DHT effects and wonder if I should request it as part of my HRT (initially Estrace, adding Androcur after a month), although as others have mentioned in this thread, there are more reasons than that to take it.

Quote from: SeekingMyself on March 03, 2014, 07:23:34 PM
I'm wondering, I should be starting HRT soon and Finasteride is only covered here for cancer patients. I've already lost way more hair than I'd like and without the anti-DHT effects of Finasteride I'm pretty sure it would take a lot longer to get that hair loss stopped. I saw mention of Progesterone having anti-DHT effects and wonder if I should request it as part of my HRT (initially Estrace, adding Androcur after a month), although as others have mentioned in this thread, there are more reasons than that to take it.

Is dutasteride an option for you if they won't give you finasteride?

Going by the provincial Formulary, it doesn't look like it.

Androcur will knock out DHT..

Not trying to sidetrack the thread but I've been reading this whole thing. And my eyes are literally falling out and will admit I am very confused on much of it. I'm following what others experiences have been as far as breast development energy libido mood etc. But i'm very confused on the weight loss/gain part. Some sources say weight gain is a side effect and others say it promotes weight loss(which i am totally for but then again who isn't), both in the thread and in the many searches i've done via google etc. Can someone please shed a little more light on this portion of the topic please?

Calli

The weight gain/loss depends on the individual. The only way to know for sure is try it out.

Progesterone does NOT have any significant effect on DHT as the doses required would have to be enormous, if we base ourselves on that one study showing that progesterone inhibited DHT up to 97%. With Androcur, Estrace and finasteride/dutasteride, you will be fine. Androcur is a progestogen but progesterone could still be added for its many other benefits that Androcur doesn't necessarily have. Both are progestogens but they work quite differently.

Androcur sometimes leads to depression so if you are predisposed to it or have had it before, it is not recommended. Also increases prolactin significantly so watch out for that...get levels tested every few months and if you start having breast leakage or feeling pressure behind eyes, advise doctor immediately.
Androcur slightly affects clotting so if you are predisposed to clotting (have family history, factor V Leiden disorder, etc.), it should also not be taken. I'm assuming your doctor knows all this, but just in case, I wanted to let you know.

Finasteride/dutasteride only reduces DHT while Androcur also blocks it. Taking them together is better than taking only one or the other alone. But, if you had to choose, Androcur, for sure. 

Thanks for the information!

Quote from: MT22TG on March 03, 2014, 10:46:13 PM
Not trying to sidetrack the thread but I've been reading this whole thing. And my eyes are literally falling out and will admit I am very confused on much of it. I'm following what others experiences have been as far as breast development energy libido mood etc. But i'm very confused on the weight loss/gain part. Some sources say weight gain is a side effect and others say it promotes weight loss(which i am totally for but then again who isn't), both in the thread and in the many searches i've done via google etc. Can someone please shed a little more light on this portion of the topic please?

Calli

With my experience, I seem to have lost some weight on P due to muscle mass shrinkage, but the stuff makes me crazy hungry, like I have the munchies.  The good news is the new fat seems to be mostly collecting in "girly places".

Quote from: Jill F on March 04, 2014, 05:24:29 PM
With my experience, I seem to have lost some weight on P due to muscle mass shrinkage, but the stuff makes me crazy hungry, like I have the munchies.  The good news is the new fat seems to be mostly collecting in "girly places".

Same here with the munchies! Except that the progesterone seemed to bulk me up muscle wise too. I did not like that. I stepped down the dose of P and the appetite normalized again, lost weight & a little tiny bit of muscle, and lost some boob too.

Quote from: Jennygirl on March 06, 2014, 03:03:59 AM
Same here with the munchies! Except that the progesterone seemed to bulk me up muscle wise too. I did not like that. I stepped down the dose of P and the appetite normalized again, lost weight & a little tiny bit of muscle, and lost some boob too.

I use a topical application and find that if I spread out only 2 or three applications a month it seems to provide sort of a balance overall, too frequently and there are unwanted side effects like attitude or feeling bloated idk but that's what works best for me.

Since getting into a higher estrogen dose and beginning progesterone daily my breasts have been growing a lot faster and fuller, rather exciting for me

Adding progesterone has definitely made a huge difference in that department, for me! I know...can be pretty exciting stuff! hehe. 

Does anyone else get dizzy when they take all there progesterone at once? It happens to me every morning and I can never learn my lesson lol

Quote from: Jennygirl on March 06, 2014, 03:03:59 AM
Same here with the munchies! Except that the progesterone seemed to bulk me up muscle wise too. I did not like that. I stepped down the dose of P and the appetite normalized again, lost weight & a little tiny bit of muscle, and lost some boob too.

I get ravenous during the 10 days out of the month that I'm taking P. I eat a lot more but I don't seem to gain any weight from it. I do walk 4 miles every day so maybe that has something to do with it.

My boobs are definitely growing on P. Now if P just didn't have some of the not so nice side effects it has on me it would be great. P gives me PMS-like feelings, I get easily annoyed or angered and I usually have headaches and feel a little queasy during that time. I also have strange food cravings.

Quote from: Eva Marie on March 15, 2014, 11:03:34 AM
I get ravenous during the 10 days out of the month that I'm taking P. I eat a lot more but I don't seem to gain any weight from it. I do walk 4 miles every day so maybe that has something to do with it.

My boobs are definitely growing on P. Now if P just didn't have some of the not so nice side effects it has on me it would be great. P gives me PMS-like feelings, I get easily annoyed or angered and I usually have headaches and feel a little queasy during that time. I also have strange food cravings.

I'm always leery of side effects and mine are kind of scary because I had DVT once in my left leg and though my boobs get fuller and feel heavier when I use Progesterone (it's a topical oil based application) I get a weird feeling in that same leg for a day and feel a bit light headed, so I just use it only two or three times a month. The problem is that the endo doesn't really know squat about the side effects, they all know everything about hormone levels and what to prescribe but side effects in MtF patients are a mystery.

Quote from: Riley Skye on March 15, 2014, 09:56:10 AM
Does anyone else get dizzy when they take all there progesterone at once? It happens to me every morning and I can never learn my lesson lol

This is normal, at first, until your body gets used to it. It's due to the sedative effect of allopregnanolone, a metabolite of progesterone which concentrations are highest when progesterone is taken orally. Taking it with food accentuates the effect while taking it on an empty stomach 2 hours after your last meal, or 1 hour before your next, helps reduce/avoid it BUT progesterone levels also will be less.

You can take it at night, close to bedtime. You will sleep like a baby and won't be inconvenienced by it.

This bothered me too, at first, since I take it with meals, in the morning and evening but now, either the effect is less, weeks later or I'm used to it psychologically speaking so don't mind it...I actually quite like it I feel so relaxed, so warm inside and it's quite the "trip"! Others have reported that the effect subsides after a month or a few months.

Quote from: Eva Marie on March 15, 2014, 11:03:34 AM
I get ravenous during the 10 days out of the month that I'm taking P. I eat a lot more but I don't seem to gain any weight from it. I do walk 4 miles every day so maybe that has something to do with it.

My boobs are definitely growing on P. Now if P just didn't have some of the not so nice side effects it has on me it would be great. P gives me PMS-like feelings, I get easily annoyed or angered and I usually have headaches and feel a little queasy during that time. I also have strange food cravings.

I find that my appetite has lessened since adding progesterone, I take it twice daily, continuously. Boobs are also bigger, growing more. I think that perhaps taking it twice daily helps avoid the headaches as progesterone has a short half-life so the decline in levels might lead to headaches. I've had them on a few occasions since starting P but only if I'm pretty active, whereas if I'm relaxed and do very little, the headache (and queasiness) almost instantly goes away. I've actually felt calmer, in general, since adding P.

I see no reason to cycle as this can lead to mood swings and has, as far as anecdotal evidence suggests, no advantage in terms of conferring better breast growth. It may even increase the risk of breast cancer as the constant increase and decrease in cell division carries a far greater risk of mutations arising. So far, I've only benefited from the inclusion of P and taking it continuously has avoided the ups and downs. I feel good, feel less bloated than just on E and my breasts are growing more now than ever!

Quote from: Shantel on March 15, 2014, 11:12:35 AM
I'm always leery of side effects and mine are kind of scary because I had DVT once in my left leg and though my boobs get fuller and feel heavier when I use Progesterone (it's a topical oil based application) I get a weird feeling in that same leg for a day and feel a bit light headed, so I just use it only two or three times a month. The problem is that the endo doesn't really know squat about the side effects, they all know everything about hormone levels and what to prescribe but side effects in MtF patients are a mystery.

There have been plenty of studies (of which I have the full articles) on the use of micronized progesterone either orally or non-orally with review of side-effects. Transsexual women have also been taking it for more than a decade. Here is an early review, one of the first, I believe. This should help alleviate your concern.

Contraception. 1987 Oct;36(4):373-402.
Oral micronized progesterone. Bioavailability pharmacokinetics, pharmacological and therapeutic implications--a review.

"No side effects have been reported as far as lipids profile, coagulation factors and blood pressure are concerned. Therefore oral micronized progesterone appears suitable for hormonal replacement therapy in various areas, essentially postmenopause therapy, premenstrual syndrome, correction of irregular cycles and pregnancy maintenance."

And a few more...

Gynecol Endocrinol. 1993 Jun;7(2):111-4.
Liver metabolism during treatment with estradiol and natural progesterone.


"Levels of lipoprotein A and liver enzymes did not change. It is concluded that micronized natural progesterone is an attractive means of progesterone supplementation in postmenopausal hormone replacement therapy without any liver-related side-effects."

Gynecol Endocrinol. 1996 Feb;10(1):41-7.
Clinical evaluation of near-continuous oral micronized progesterone therapy in estrogenized postmenopausal women.

"No significant changes were observed in blood glucose or liver enzymes."

Furthermore, it is prescribed to pregnant women to avoid miscarriage and is similar to the hormone produced in the human body with no increase in DVT associated with it, despite very high levels during pregnancy, reaching up to 400 ng/ml.

Also, this study

The toxicity of progesterone.
Rudel HW; Kincl FA
Tausk, M., ed. Pharmacology of the endocrine system and related drugs: progesterone, progestational drugs and antifertility agents. Vol. 1. New York, Pergamon Press, 1971. (International Encyclopedia of Pharmacology and Therapeutics Section 48) p. 405-409


"The toxicity of progesterone was studied in rats treated for 26 weeks."

"Mortality did not differ appreciably among the groups. Female animals treated subcutaneously had markedly higher body weights after treatment than the other animals. Liver weights were higher in subcutaneously treated females. Atrophy of the gonads was observed in males and females treated parenterally with high doses. Weight changes in the heart, spleen, and kidney were not significant. There were no changes in microscopically examined organs or in hematologic values. Except for the increased body and liver weights of subcutaneously treated females, progesterone did not effect any significant anatomical changes."

This was at doses (given non-orally, hence more potent, in several times) up to approx. 40 times the doses typically prescribed to us orally. The concentrations of progesterone in the blood must have been insanely high!

The only concern I came across was the possibility (although no increased incidence was found) of an increase in risk of cholestasis (obstructed bile flow from liver to duodenum) with high doses of oral progesterone prescribed during the third term of pregnancy when progesterone levels are already naturally quite high in the body.

Also, keep in mind that you are taking progesterone non-orally so there is even less a chance as much less travels through liver.

Lastly, in my review of pharmacokinetics of topically applied progesterone to the skin, I have found it is poorly absorbed in the blood and that there is barely any change in serum levels of progesterone.

From this study (I have the full study)

Menopause. 2013 Nov;20(11):1169-75.
Percutaneous progesterone delivery via cream or gel application in postmenopausal women: a randomized cross-over study of progesterone levels in serum, whole blood, saliva, and capillary blood.

The serum levels of progesterone were, on average, with cream and gel (doses comparable to oral), 
0.5 ng/ml (Cmax of 0.6 ng/ml) and 0.35 ng/ml (Cmax of 0.4 ng/ml), respectively, during a 24 hour period.

On comparable dose with oral progesterone, in another study, Cmax was found to be 17.3 ng/ml and average levels to be 4.33 ng/ml for the first 10 hours.

As you can see, topically applied progesterone is poorly transferred to the blood.