So I had a talk with my mom and it seems that getting the surgery on yeson is possible for me ,,so I wanted to clarify some things...

Here is the deal...I wish to know that if they surgery will give me a legitimate female voice.
I hear from people that if you dont speak like a female then the surgery will just give you a high pitch voice not neccesarely a female one,
but the thing is this , isnt it true that there are a lot of guys who speak like  girls and a lot of girls who speak like guys?
its not that they face any issues ...actually nothing at all..
sooo to put it simply...lets say I get the surgery , I go to the mini market and I ask they guy "who much does this cost?
will I sound female no matter my eer speaking style or will I soung like a high pitch dude...

Its kinda wierd every before after video I ve seen is amazing, the voices Ive heard are amazingly feminine...is this personal effort? or is the surgery?will I be able to pull it off its effort too?
Anyway my voice per say is really high for a guy but still a guys voice if you know what I mean...Actually my voice is high , but I speak like a guy and I cant help it...but as I said girls can speak like guys too,,,and they are still girl with a girls voice!I think my laugh and cry sounds kinda female , wierd might be just me...
also  I cant really make myself sound female now , it sounds wierd and even when it sounds good I cant maintain it , its difficult for me...

Sorry ive been going on and on , I just need a clear answer for this...or an explation pls

Also some more questions pls
Are there any risks?
Ive read that others surgeries have but this one not really...

And one more question,
Ive read that the surgery costs 7000 us dollars?
eeer since I live in greece I use euros...does this mean that its actually 5000 euros?
or did i do the converion wrong? anyway how much does it cost on euros??


ty very much , sorry for the chatterbox :/
but I wish to know

Hi. I calculated it to 5000 EUro as well which is what I base my calculations on that I would have the money for it next winter if I want - plus the time to get the money for airfare and hotel that is (not included in the 5000 EU of course).

If you have a rather high pitch already, it is possible that Dr Kim cannot improve your voice that much. My advice woul dbe to go to a local voice doctor and let them check you up, Analyze the pitch, inflection, vocal chords and all that. Get as much information on your voice from voice/throat doctors locally as well as voice therapists and keep all the notes, ask for copies of pictures, viceos and printouts on the data and then send it to Dr Kim if the local people cannot give you enough information  - or post it here before bothering Dr Kim with it.

That said, indeed there are patterns outside of pitch that make a voice be perceived as male and I would say your best bet would be to first try professional voice training to get a good idea of what your voice can do and is doing and to get these other things changed - not so much about what you talk but also about resonance, the "color" of the voice, its timbre. The voice trainer can also tell you more about what is up with the pitch and if ther eis a need to change it. You can also try to do recordings of your voice, analyze it with the praat program or post it and ask someone else to tell you the F0 frequency

Dr. Kim won't operate on you if you already have female sized vocal cords, which is definitely a possibility (it has happened before).

What is the lowest note you can produce with your voice? That is a good indication of the size of your vocal cords.

As far as the effort to produce the voice in the before/after... Yes and no. There is an inherent pitch change no matter what you do, and especially the lower chesty pitches are cut off from ever being possible to produce again. With minimal effort, then, it is possibly to produce an extremely feminine sounding voice.

Factors play into how much of an increase in effortless phonation you will see. Vocal tremor is a big one and I think is likely rampant among MtF's who have mistakenly tried to raise the pitch of their voice by squeezing and/or straining the voice... After time you kind of assimilate that tension into everything and it becomes a subconscious habit- by then it can be diagnosed as vocal tremor or dystonia.

It's possible you have vocal tremor and that is what is causing your low voice. If you already have a high voice, I would definitely get a laryngoscopy from a talented ENT doctor who can measure the length of your vocal cords and send regular and high speed videos of your vocal cords to Dr. Kim. You may save yourself a trip to Seoul!

Thanks for the answers girls

So I guess it would be wise to go to  a voice clinic and have my voice examined also do some therapy and then see if I should do the surgery myself
Its just that Id rather have a feminine voice myself than having to constantly creating one...Isnt that a good enough reason?
I dont like this feeling that im pretending something...

And ve seen many amazing results from yeson , for example your voice Jenny sounds absolutly amazing and to me sounds impossible to make such a voice without a surgery...

Anyways, btw I did said that my voice is high but maybe high for a "guy"...it is still a normal guy voice thats why I dont think I have female voice chords ...though I should just check it to be sure...
Maybe you girls can give me some feedback on my normal male voice and what would be best to do...
I ll post a video its a year old but nothing really changed,,,I do feel that I speak calmer after hrt , but just that...
(btw its one of the gaming videos I used to make , its also in greek )

FalsePrincess,
The surgery may cost $7000 USD, but I think you'll want to budget more on the side of $12000-14000 USD from other posts I've read. (Travel, Lodging, Food, Entertainment, Misc., Conversion Fees depending on method of payment)

Some questions I have about Yeson are:
Voice Tremors: Are they due to MTF voice strain or is it due to the technique Dr. Kim uses? I'm seeing this as a recouring issue.
Botox: Will this constantly be needed after having VFS? This part scares me as I want to stay away from botulism.
What happens to gutoral sounds? I'm thinking umf, uh, or when I cough it's very low.
Screaming/Yelling: Is this posible post-op after say a year? Like yelling for a lost child or screaming for help?
Typically how long do you need to wait to go back to work and communicate? Will the 10days be enough? Extend to 2wks vacation? 3wks?

Quote from: Jennifer. on March 05, 2014, 07:49:11 PM
FalsePrincess,
The surgery may cost $7000 USD, but I think you'll want to budget more on the side of $12000-14000 USD from other posts I've read. (Travel, Lodging, Food, Entertainment, Misc., Conversion Fees depending on method of payment)

Some questions I have about Yeson are:
Voice Tremors: Are they due to MTF voice strain or is it due to the technique Dr. Kim uses? I'm seeing this as a recouring issue.
Botox: Will this constantly be needed after having VFS? This part scares me as I want to stay away from botulism.
What happens to gutoral sounds? I'm thinking umf, uh, or when I cough it's very low.
Screaming/Yelling: Is this posible post-op after say a year? Like yelling for a lost child or screaming for help?
Typically how long do you need to wait to go back to work and communicate? Will the 10days be enough? Extend to 2wks vacation? 3wks?

Probably a safe bet with the 12k estimate.

Vocal tremor is always diagnosed at the pre op examination. It is just a hunch I have that a lot of MtFs carry this condition without ever realizing it due to the tension voice feminization practice can put on the vocal cords if one is not careful. Actually, I think a huge percent of the population probably has some form of it because so many people tend to abuse their voices without ever realizing it or being adversely affected.

Vocal tremor is neurological and VFS has no effect on it. Currently there is no cure... Only a bandaid in the form of botox.

I haven't had any problems with my voice and I haven't done anything to treat my vocal tremor. Currently I would technically be 7 months overdue for a botox injection. That said, I am researching options around LA to have a 1 year checkup of my vocal cords and possibly have another botox injection if the doctor thinks I might benefit. More so I am just incredibly curious to see how everything has healed.

is there any clear way to tell if you have a vocal tremor? Because I have really abused my voice over the last decade. From singing I mean, with bad habits like straining, not hydrating and not warming up. I talk at about 200-220 hz apparently but I keep feeling like maybe I lost some of my (at least my singing) range thanks to my bad habits.

Quote from: sad panda on March 06, 2014, 02:29:56 AM
is there any clear way to tell if you have a vocal tremor? Because I have really abused my voice over the last decade. From singing I mean, with bad habits like straining, not hydrating and not warming up. I talk at about 200-220 hz apparently but I keep feeling like maybe I lost some of my (at least my singing) range thanks to my bad habits.

It's possible that you have developed a mild tremor or dystonia, but the only real way to know is with a laryngoscopy and laryngeal stroboscopy (high speed video of the vocal cords). About any ENT should be able to do that for ya.

It would be very hard (if not impossible) to diagnose yourself without the video analysis because of the many things that go into voice production. The range problem could come from many things.

What might help is doing some vocal function exercises with attention given to relaxing the surrounding neck muscles as much as possible.

This is what Yeson has had me doing for the past 10 months. I know it has helped me a ton:

warm up
• soft lip trill on F3
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
• soft lip trill on F3
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3

stretching & contracting (stay quiet, careful not to strain)
• soft lip trill siren from lowest to highest x 4
• soft "noooh" sound from lowest to highest x 4 (using air like blowing a candle)

power
• hold lip trill on C4 as long as possible (relax and breathe from diaphragm)
• hold "noooh" on C4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on D4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on D4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on E4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on E4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on F4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on F4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on G4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on G4 as long as possible

warm down (quietly)
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg" sound, like in the word "sing"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"

A similar version and what they have posted on their page for patients:

Hi FalsePrincess,

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 05, 2014, 01:46:53 PM
I ll post a video its a year old but nothing really changed,,,I do feel that I speak calmer after hrt , but just that...

Your voice is definitely below female range. High "for a guy", maybe a 140-150 Hz average, but I haven't measured.

Amy

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 05, 2014, 01:46:53 PM
So I guess it would be wise to go to  a voice clinic and have my voice examined also do some therapy and then see if I should do the surgery myself

I would say to do some therapy at first is always a good idea - you should be able to work with your voice and enjoy doing that in some way, I think it makes a lot of things easier.
Plus it may be that you can reach a female voice without surgery, especially if you start off inthe high male range as Amy suggested. You will have to do some of the things with the voice in any case - especially resonance and voice melody - those are not surgically altered. I noticed that if you switch to a female resonance, this usually will become permanent and second nature for you with some time and it also raises pitch a bit. Not a whole lot but maybe enough to get from 150 Hz to a female range for you. Since it is needed anyways, I would suggest to try that other parameters first and see if you can get an effortless female voice going like that. If not there is still Yeson

QuoteIts just that Id rather have a feminine voice myself than having to constantly creating one...Isnt that a good enough reason?
I dont like this feeling that im pretending something...

I totally agree but you need to understand that surgery can only change some aspects - pitch mainly, some of the voice quality to a minor degree. There are some things it does not change and you will have to work on them in any way and change them without surgery by voice training, but no worries, most of them will not be in the mind really, they just become habit and will be natural and you forget how to do it otherwise even to a degree - and as I said, some of them will also increase pitch, so VFS would be for the case this is not working by itself.

@jennygirl thanks, I will try those when my voice feels better!