Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 11, 2014, 03:01:39 PM
Well "stamping out feminine feelings" makes a lot of sense. I realised that I was doing exactly the same for most of my life, except I was able to do the same stuff without joining military (not that the idea of joining never crossed my mind).

Anyone trans that know they are and are certain I would definitely try to talk them out of joining at least until trans people can openly serve. The contract you sign pretty much locks you in and what type of discharge you get has an effect on future job propositions and so on. An honorable discharge will get no questions asked. With a general discharge or less than honorable or dishonorable, the questions will start coming. My first job after I had to give them a copy of my DD form 214 as proof of military service and what type of discharge is on it.

You did right Emily because being forced to be 100% guy for several years sux. The only way I could be me was dreaming, which isn't always a given unless you are an expert at lucid dreaming or daydreaming. I looked at the girls with envy but most of my fellow soldiers would think it was lust. Same with magazines, while they would be, "Man I would do her." I would be thinking, " I wish I could have be her". Living a lie ain't no fun.

There is no typical personality from what I've noticed.  Everyone is different and are own person.  Some transwomen are certainly more masculine, but that's not true of all.  And some transmen are a little more fem, but there are many masculine guys out there.  I actually feel there are more masculine transmen than feminine transwomen from what I've noticed.  It's hard to judge.  Everyone has such a diverse background and they all act differently regardless of being fem or masculine.  To be honest, I think most people overthink this.  Just be you, whatever that is. 

I definitely get hiding feminine behaviors, I grew up with a devout christian dad, kinda have to do that to survive as a boy to a large extent, but the stamping out is interesting to me. What creates the urge to stop being feminine inside? Like, what were you feeling when you thought, i need to stop feeling this and be a man? for me, I was perfectly okay with the fact that I was feminine and liked typical girly things, I just got kinda angsty abt it and didn't tell people about me because I thought they would judge me.

I am guessing those were some pretty extreme feelings to join the military.. it must have been hard to cope with. :s

If you know one transgender person, you know one transgender person.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 13, 2014, 02:06:00 AM
If you know one transgender person, you know one transgender person.

--Jay

Daaaamn.  ^THIS^

You are correct, sir.   You mean we're not stamped out at factories? 

We are snowflakes.  Some flakier than others. 

Kia Ora,

Re: How would you describe the typical transgender personality?  Split   


Metta Anatta

Quote from: BLZA on March 11, 2014, 08:19:03 AM

Extreme honesty is one striking difference between the trans and general population.

Nah, I've met some pretentious trans people at about the same rate as with cis people.

Quote from: sad panda on March 11, 2014, 04:51:27 PM
I definitely get hiding feminine behaviors, I grew up with a devout christian dad, kinda have to do that to survive as a boy to a large extent, but the stamping out is interesting to me. What creates the urge to stop being feminine inside? Like, what were you feeling when you thought, i need to stop feeling this and be a man? for me, I was perfectly okay with the fact that I was feminine and liked typical girly things, I just got kinda angsty abt it and didn't tell people about me because I thought they would judge me.

I am guessing those were some pretty extreme feelings to join the military.. it must have been hard to cope with. :s

I can't speak for anyone but myself but it was more of a test. Could I be a macho male? Were all the people that called me a sissy, feminine, or thought me to be gay right? Even though it was mainly girls I was interested in back then with the occasional guy. I got my answers about six moths in and yes, they were right except about the gay part. I am bi. Then I had three and half years to masquerade as something that I wasn't.

It never stopped the feeling of feminine inside but I had to hide it. Really it's what made me realize and fully accept that I was transgender. So it was more of proving something to myself rather than trying to squash those feelings. Believe me, when the four years were up I had my answer. I still keep it secret, after all it is mine anyway with the exception of a few places I can let my hair down and be me. But then again I didn't suffer crippling GID and I think that is one of the reasons that I made it without too many problems. I would hate to think about it if I couldn't have even looked at myself in the mirror because of my anatomy. The only problem that I did have was not being able to do my beauty regimes like shaving. I just felt nasty all the time.

one word: reflective

Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.

But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.

But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).

So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...

And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here. 

Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.

But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.

But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).

So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...

And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.

I couldn't separate out any of this as it was another excellent commentary from my perspective. I might add though that there are trans women who aren't as focused as those you cite and do seem to have cognitive problems when it comes to planning their transitional steps and wind up trumping themselves in the process. Unfortunately I fall into that latter group, not because of cognitive problems but due to age and the lack of information available when I was younger. I do feel bad for those who don't plan well and drop out of school, lose their jobs and suddenly due to the social stigma of being trans wind up with menial low wage jobs and are never able to afford the necessary steps to complete their journey.

Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.

But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.

But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).

So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...

And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.

FA, I can't really find any argument with what you said and certainly no offense. Of course there are exceptions to the pattern but it seems spot on. I think society messes us over more than nature though. Tomboy is a term of endearment for girls that act boyish while sissy is an insult for boys that act girly. I think it's another reason that transmen although still hard but have a way easier time dressing and acting more like their inner gender than transwomen.

Quote from: Jess42 on March 13, 2014, 11:42:44 AM


FA, I can't really find any argument with what you said and certainly no offense. Of course there are exceptions to the pattern but it seems spot on. I think society messes us over more than nature though. Tomboy is a term of endearment for girls that act boyish while sissy is an insult for boys that act girly. I think it's another reason that transmen although still hard but have a way easier time dressing and acting more like their inner gender than transwomen.

Thanks hon. Oh yeah, I think society has a lot more to do with it than we like to admit. For trans guys, we get some pressure and problems for being too masculine. But not like what trans girls get. Boys are pressured to perform in general and make something of themselves, grow up, be independent, be 'men'. And sometimes this is magnified for young trans girls showing feminine traits. So, it makes sense they feel a lot more pressure to perform. (and of course there are also advantages career wise conferred upon perceived males in this culture which I know is a very touchy subject) So, basically dysphoria sometimes drives pre-transition women to achieve at a high level. And there may also be other factors involved.

Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 12:16:54 PM
Thanks hon. Oh yeah, I think society has a lot more to do with it than we like to admit. For trans guys, we get some pressure and problems for being too masculine. But not like what trans girls get. Boys are pressured to perform in general and make something of themselves, grow up, be independent, be 'men'. And sometimes this is magnified for young trans girls showing feminine traits. So, it makes sense they feel a lot more pressure to perform. (and of course there are also advantages career wise conferred upon perceived males in this culture which I know is a very touchy subject) So, basically dysphoria sometimes drives pre-transition women to achieve at a high level. And there may also be other factors involved. Generally though, the average trans woman is more successful than the average cis woman (and maybe even cis man). I don't know what that means. Are trans women as a group smarter? Does being raised male somehow bring out the best in a female mind? If sexism wasn't a thing, would we see this level of achievement more and more in cis women as well?

AH HA. That must be the male privilege everyone keeps talking about. I don't really know 'cause I have never experienced "male privilege". When I was young I was always a loner or with the other misfits of society. Pretty much I grew up how I grew up and wasn't really forced or pushed to do anything. If so it wouldn't have worked anyway, I was too stubborn. The only popularity I experienced in high school was only because I played in a rock band. I think the only reason I learned how to play was the big hair and makeup without ridicule, enjoying it is just a byproduct. I've always known though from my first memories that I was trans or at the time wanted to be a girl instead of a boy. So I really didn't do all the normal boy stuff.

I really don't think transwomen are smarter than anyone else but those of us that were pushed to be competitive to keep from being called sissies and such or played sports to prove something, that the competitiveness may be a hold over. Someone else might answer that question better 'cause I wasn't a very competitive person at all. Never played sports and if playing games I would often times lose on purpose and let someone else win. But it seems like I have always thought more in line with females than males. Hell, even young if someone called me a sissy it didn't even bother me like it would my male peers. I felt no need to prove otherwise.

As for sexism, I think it's on the way out and I do see more and more females in positions previously dominated by males and doing more masculine jobs such as welding, construction, auto mechanics and so on. I also see more women that are the main provider for their families and the male doing the "extra" job. Even some that are stay at home dads. I do think that gender roles are changing due to either society, evolution, nature or technology. I think we just maybe the beginnings of the change and ahead of the times. Or hope so anyway. Or at least a world in which we can decide on which gender to express ourselves without all the negativity that comes with it regardless of what genitals we are born with. Besides being a hopeless romantic I'm also one heck of a dreamer.

Quote from: Jess42 on March 13, 2014, 01:37:51 PM

AH HA. That must be the male privilege everyone keeps talking about.

Well, like I said. I know it's a touchy subject and I'm not sure anyone is really sure on the concept or how far it goes. I mean, obviously there are a lot of men who don't seem to have benefited much. But there are also a lot of people who probably wouldn't be where they are if they had been female. Probably none of the US presidents for example. Probably not most of the world's CEOs. I don't think that means they in anyway are undeserving of their success, just that they probably wouldn't have gotten there if they had been female. And I think there's a difference there in what little boys see is possible for them and what little girls see (particularly when I was growing up). Anyway, I'm not sure privilege is the best term for it. It's more like lack of a certain discrimination.
[/quote]

Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 10:43:12 AM
Just a note, and I certainly don't mean any offense by it.

But one thing I've noted that is trans women tend toward having been overachievers in their former lives while this seems less true for trans men. Of course, there are those who don't fit this. There seem to be a lot of trans women who were extremely successful in their former lives. And we really don't see this very much with trans men. A lot more trans men seem to be blue or pink collar. Of some of the more successful trans men (before transition) I've known, they tend to have experienced more delays career and education wise (taking longer than average to graduate and 'set up shop' as it were). Many also seem more delayed in other areas as well. Now by delay, I'm not talking cognitive function or anything.

But I've seen a trend over the years with trans men seeming to have more reluctance to grow up. (now, not everyone, I can already see the protests of the few really mature, successful guys out there, but when compared to trans women we lag far behind as a group). We're just usually not nearly as successful in our pre-transition lives as the ladies (even when accounting for age differences).

So, I think the typical traits are very different depending which direction you're going. And without trying to offend and including myself in this - I think a typical trait for trans men is the peter pan thing. When we hit puberty, we get freaked out as our bodies move away from androgyny. And we stay stuck in a kind of never realized boyhood, terrified of becoming a woman and unable to see ourselves in a woman's role at all, much less plan for the future and who we're going 'to be' as a woman. The whole idea of growing up into a woman is abhorrent to us and we want no part of it at all. Even being a 'strong woman' successful in whatever way is completely unpalatable and we can't bear to think of it all. We'd be better off dead and we can see no future to plan for at all. (And this may be more true for guys who didn't know anything about trans stuff.) There's nothing to grow up into and we lack the guidance and yes, pressure, we need to grow into a man. Girls just really aren't encouraged or expected to be much, so...

And there seems to be an orientation part to this as well. For a trans woman who was very successful pre-transition, you will usually find she was straight (into women) or close to it. A lot more of those who didn't fare very well in their former lives were more into men. I think there's something to that. Now of course this isn't true for everyone. I'm just noting patterns here.

Yeah I can see this too.. I know that being into guys I was spending more time looking for a guy to take care of me than trying to take charge of my own future... hah... and i have met a couple other MTFs who like guys with similar attachment problems :/

Not that this is a good thing at all, but I will probably always feel like a child. :c

Quote from: FA on March 13, 2014, 02:22:17 PM
Well, like I said. I know it's a touchy subject and I'm not sure anyone is really sure on the concept or how far it goes. I mean, obviously there are a lot of men who don't seem to have benefited much. But there are also a lot of people who probably wouldn't be where they are if they had been female. Probably none of the US presidents for example. Probably not most of the world's CEOs. I don't think that means they in anyway are undeserving of their success, just that they probably wouldn't have gotten there if they had been female. And I think there's a difference there in what little boys see is possible for them and what little girls see (particularly when I was growing up). Anyway, I'm not sure privilege is the best term for it. It's more like lack of a certain discrimination.

Well I love touchy subjects, controversial stuff, politics and religion. Pretty much all the stuff people fight over. Let me rephrase, I love these things when there is no fighting and a real in depth discussion can be had. I have learned so much in my life from other's experiences with these subjects but the minute someone gets angry over something then I just back away. I can tell you another name for male privilege and that is "the good ol' boy's club". Or that's what we called it where I am from. Overlooking females for promotions, or possible job positions and so on but like you said its not just limited to females. Thankfully it seems to be less and less though. I do think that I may have experienced female privilege a few times or maybe transfemale privilege from guys while doing my job. I really don't know but it seems like they are awfully helpful, more than usual in an industry where a guy gets treated like crap most of the time and a little flirtatious even. Maybe they're just into transwomen and when I do wear more feminine t shirts and women's jeans, this seems to happen. I've got to say that I am extremely flattered when it happens whether they think I am trans and are into me or just honest to god confused or really can't tell and just see me as a female with a slightly masculine face. Either way I am extremely happy to have the help especially in the summer time. I do know that the industry in which I conduct my business is extremely diverse.

Yeah, when I was growing up there was definitely a difference in the priorities of little girls and little boys. Now anything seems possible for both but it was fairly limited back then.

Quote from: sad panda on March 13, 2014, 02:32:52 PM
Yeah I can see this too.. I know that being into guys I was spending more time looking for a guy to take care of me than trying to take charge of my own future... hah... and i have met a couple other MTFs who like guys with similar attachment problems :/

Not that this is a good thing at all, but I will probably always feel like a child. :c

I think we all feel a little childlike inside sad panda. I would love to find a world famous nuerosurgeon that would fall in love with me. But I don't ever see that happening though. Being MTF I love to have someone that can make me feel safe and secure with my own self identity. With me, not necessarily to take care of me financially but a protector that will comfort me during a thunderstorm. I hate thunderstorms especially during tornado season. Someone that I can walk down the street with that will keep me safe from a bad situation and so on. Someone that will cherish me for who I am. I think we all long for that.

Quote from: Jess42 on March 13, 2014, 04:52:10 PM
I think we all feel a little childlike inside sad panda. I would love to find a world famous nuerosurgeon that would fall in love with me. But I don't ever see that happening though. Being MTF I love to have someone that can make me feel safe and secure with my own self identity. With me, not necessarily to take care of me financially but a protector that will comfort me during a thunderstorm. I hate thunderstorms especially during tornado season. Someone that I can walk down the street with that will keep me safe from a bad situation and so on. Someone that will cherish me for who I am. I think we all long for that.

Yeah though I don't mean like that, it's more like he's half my dad and half my man. Not proud of it but thats kinda what i need in a partner :/ I never managed to have a job yet (responsibilities overload me emotionally, like I can't handle it) and my life doesn't mean much to me without somebody to give it to. I sorta think I am a dainty victorian chick they put in the wrong era. at least i found a guy who is ok with that.

Like for example you mentioned politics... adult/real world stuff like that scares me lol. I can't watch the news or anything. I just live in my little bubble away from practical concerns and stuff. 

Quote from: Jill F on March 13, 2014, 02:19:41 AM
Daaaamn.  ^THIS^

You are correct, sir.   You mean we're not stamped out at factories? 

We are snowflakes.  Some flakier than others. 

Nah, the trans stamping out factory hasn't been working for years. Flaky? I resemble that remark! 

--Jay

Quote from: Nikko on March 11, 2014, 08:32:43 AM
I feel there's more introversion in the trans world. Not sure if that's hereditary or environmental.

I think environmental for lack of a better term.  Before we make peace with ourselves we require a lot of soul searching to figure out who we are more often than not.  A deeply internal journey of trying to figure out who we are.  That's bound to drive any developing mind to be heavily introverted.  Combined with not feeling secure or at home in our own skins, and not wanting to draw attention to ourselves because of it.