Inspired by the thread about beards in M2F section.

I had a beard for many years. When I transitioned in 1993, I shaved it off, so as to look female. In recent years, I've occasionally considered growing a small goatee. Only problem might be whether my partner will still kiss me If I don't shave for a couple of days, zie complains about my scratchy face.

What do other androgynes think about beards or facial hair? Can an androgyne grow a beard and still look androgynous? My androgyne manual was the first edition, and thus missing section about beards 

Zythyra

I think its a masculine signal, as in other perceive beards on anyone more masculine. But really both men and women have or can have facial hair to some degree, probably depending on the quantity and density.

As for how androgynous looking it would make you would depend on all the features and aspects of your appearance judged subjectively, (by individual people of different cultures and how binary, or polar they are) all together as a whole.

I wear a goatee too sometimes (alot recently), and yes we dont kiss as much. More hugs and rubs now.

You can always compensate for the gender shift by getting DD implants.

Ken/Kendra/KK

I agree that the majority of people perceive beards as a masculine signal. The right mix of feminine signals could counter that, although many people will still just see a "man in a dress", that's the only box they know to put people into. DD, or probably even B, would likely confuse things a bit more.

Zythyra

Time to reveal the truth about female bodied:
Somewhere along their 60th birthday females get a present no one really told them about: a mustache... And, as they grow older they get a beard as well (two for the price of one ey?).

I've worked at an elderlyhome for several years, and before becoming a receptionist I shaved quite some women during volunteeringwork. So, really, in the end: the older we become the more genderf***-ish we become as well. (Yes, your grandmother probably shaves! ALAS!)

However Z, since I expect you're not in age range 60-100, I'd have to agree that excessive facial hair does strike me as more masculine. Nevertheless, in the end it's still about what you feel comfortable with.

QuoteHowever Z, since I expect you're not in age range 60-100, I'd have to agree that excessive facial hair does strike me as more masculine. Nevertheless, in the end it's still about what you feel comfortable with.

I'm not 60 yet no-id, but at 51 I'm just over the halfway mark to 100  Perhaps by then, societal attitudes regarding beards and gender will have changed... we could only hope.

Zythyra 

Quote from: zythyra on August 06, 2007, 06:43:45 AM
The right mix of feminine signals could counter that, although many people will still just see a "man in a dress", that's the only box they know to put people into. DD, or probably even B, would likely confuse things a bit more.

Zythyra

Yes depends on yourself and your partner. Some people find certain signals more erotic or important in a partner than others. And depends on how you feel about your own presentation/expression.

Certainly you could talk a little about it and find out by doing a "Would you find [me attractive, it disturbing, it offenssive, me less desirable, me less kissable, etc]?" and find out what your partner thinks and feels.

QuoteYes depends on yourself and your partner. Some people find certain signals more erotic or important in a partner than others. And depends on how you feel about your own presentation/expression.

Certainly you could talk a little about it and find out.

I actually did grow a goatee a few years ago, and my partner didn't like kissing me with hair on my face. So I shaved it off after a month. I'd rather be kissed than have a beard, no question  It was also harder to present androgynously with the beard... although I personally thought it didn't look bad.

Zythyra

You cannot look like a woman with a beard on your face...trust me.  I bet even the Bearded Lady at the circus has a hard time proving her femininity without dropping her drawers.

It is also difficult to appear androgynous (in the true sense of the word) with facial hair.

GenderF***ing, however, can be a blast.  If done subtly, it takes people a few minutes to notice your makeup and nail polish and women's clothes...or you can hit them over the head with it (which always made me uncomfortable so I didn't do it too much).  Somehow, the beard and the DDs just made me feel a little strange (and the looks I got made me think people thought so too).

Still...there was something about not even trying to pass that made things a lot easier...no pressure...no worrying about being read.

The biggest problem I ran into was (and still do sometimes, even without the beard) is that people see you as a feminine man and immediately tag you as gay.  They don't see Androgyne...heck, most of them have never heard of it.  If you are attracted to males, this may not be much of a problem.  If you are attracted to females (or if you live in Redneck-ville), it can be a little awkward (and scary) at times.

My beard comes and goes depending on how I feel.  Right now, I am in a beardless phase.  It may come back soon or it may stay gone for a long time...only my hairdresser knows for sure. 

....Laurry 

QuoteStill...there was something about not even trying to pass that made things a lot easier...no pressure...no worrying about being read.

Yes, the TS folks have to go through tremendous effort to pass. When I had a beard, I found it incredibly easy to pass as "OMG! a man in a dress"    >

Zythyra

No worries...I get the same reaction even without the beard!   

....Laurry

I think almost all beards are silly. But I could just be jealous cos I can´t grow one and when I do, it´s ginger.

I wear a full beard, trimmed very short.  Yes, it is impossible to pass as a woman while wearing a beard.  No matter what else I do, I will be perceived as a man in a dress.

I have worn a beard (a goatee for many years) since before I met my wife.  When I came out to her and told her I was a crossdresser I shaved off my beard.  She had no problems with the fact that I wanted to wear dresses, but wanted me to grow back my beard.  Since then I have been clean shaven only on rare occasions and then always temporarily.

The fact that I wear a beard means that there are limits to how androgynous I can look, but it does not limit the fact that I am androgynous.  If a genetic female can express her androgyny by wearing men's slacks and shirts, why shouldn't I express my androgyny by wearing a skirt and makeup even while I wear a beard?

By the way, I am in the 60-100 age category.  As I have gotten older the color and texture of my beard as well as my hair have changed.  Most women my age and with my hair color wear their hair in a style similar to mine.  In that sense, age makes us more androgynous.  I know many women with light mustaches, but I have never met any with the kind of chin stubble that I have. >

   I think a beard is okay.  My reasoning is that some of us do not look androgynous in the classic sense or like in the video K/K posted about androgynes.  If you have a masculine looking face and a beard works on it in terms of adding to the look, then I don't see what the problem is.  It's a matter of if it feels right to the wearer of the beard.

   I honestly believe that beards can look good on female faces too.  Not all of them, but some.  I know I'm weird, but I think part of my self discovery is that I like people of all kinds.  Including the genderforked. Genderentwined.  Gendermixed.  Crossgendered.

   My other feeling is that it is okay for women to not shave their legs and it is okay for male bodied people to not shave their face.

   Maybe I just don't like rules.  Rules for for squares.

QuoteIf a genetic female can express her androgyny by wearing men's slacks and shirts, why shouldn't I express my androgyny by wearing a skirt and makeup even while I wear a beard?

Absolutely! Let's hope the day isn't too far away where it won't be a big deal to express ourselves in whatever mix feels right.

Zythyra

im currently lasering mine off, ah i love the smell of burning face hair in the morning. and always feel more andro when i do not have any beard or shadow on my face, which is the important part. the shadow i think makes a face look very male. i hate it when it starts to regrow ready to be zaped again. im not trying to pass i just feel more ambiguous when i dont have to look at my facial hair it makes me smile.

Quote from: sparkles on August 11, 2007, 01:22:03 AM
im currently lasering mine off, ah i love the smell of burning face hair in the morning. and always feel more andro when i do not have any beard or shadow on my face, which is the important part. the shadow i think makes a face look very male. i hate it when it starts to regrow ready to be zaped again. im not trying to pass i just feel more ambiguous when i dont have to look at my facial hair it makes me smile.

I'd like to do that, but I is a poor androgyne. 

If I stand real close to you, do you think some laser beams might reflect off and hit me too?

Quote from: sparkles on August 11, 2007, 01:22:03 AM
im currently lasering mine off, ah i love the smell of burning face hair in the morning. and always feel more andro when i do not have any beard or shadow on my face, which is the important part. the shadow i think makes a face look very male. i hate it when it starts to regrow ready to be zaped again. im not trying to pass i just feel more ambiguous when i dont have to look at my facial hair it makes me smile.

Oh yes, it is a most delightful scent... maybe that's why it costs so much? I have to agree, even if you are not trying to "pass" it does give a pleasing ambiguity, plus it is just asthetically much more pleasing, in my humble opinion anyway. Smooth and slick, who can argue with that? 

Quote from: Krys on August 11, 2007, 02:06:43 PM

Quote from: sparkles on August 11, 2007, 01:22:03 AM
im currently lasering mine off, ah i love the smell of burning face hair in the morning. and always feel more andro when i do not have any beard or shadow on my face, which is the important part. the shadow i think makes a face look very male. i hate it when it starts to regrow ready to be zaped again. im not trying to pass i just feel more ambiguous when i dont have to look at my facial hair it makes me smile.

Oh yes, it is a most delightful scent... maybe that's why it costs so much? I have to agree, even if you are not trying to "pass" it does give a pleasing ambiguity, plus it is just asthetically much more pleasing, in my humble opinion anyway. Smooth and slick, who can argue with that? 

Then I'd like to do my tummy too.

I shave my legs and underarms, but do not shave my face.  Isn't that what most women do?  How could I be more androgynous than that.   >

As a female-bodied androgyne, I choose not to shave my legs.  I guess it helps to counter my feminine face.   I get read as "emo-boy" or "hippie-dyke" depending on the day.