I think battery acid might be an appropriate analogy.

Hmmmmmmmm.... I don't think that's very apt.

Ever seen the video of the Tacoma Narrows bridge? This strong, very well built thing that a bunch of people put together (using the metaphor, the engineers would be society which put together your 'male' personality) collapsed completely because the structure was placed in a spot completely unconducive to such a thing being there in the first place. At first, it was just ripples. You knew that something was wrong because this structure should NOT wobble like that. It's obvious that something is very off about it. Then, with time, eventually the nature of the location revealed itself and the structure (personality) started to fail. It undulated violently and then... collapsed.

This is now my metaphor for being trans pre-transition... that I just came up with.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on March 27, 2014, 05:59:14 PM
Hmmmmmmmm.... I don't think that's very apt.

Ever seen the video of the Tacoma Narrows bridge? This strong, very well built thing that a bunch of people put together (using the metaphor, the engineers would be society which put together your 'male' personality) collapsed completely because the structure was placed in a spot completely unconducive to such a thing being there in the first place. At first, it was just ripples. You knew that something was wrong because this structure should NOT wobble like that. It's obvious that something is very off about it. Then, with time, eventually the nature of the location revealed itself and the structure (personality) started to fail. It undulated violently and then... collapsed.

This is now my metaphor for being trans pre-transition... that I just came up with.

I feel like that is great analogy that I may have to use when I come out to my old engineering classmates... We all watched the video of the bridge for class.

Quote from: Jen on March 27, 2014, 05:37:23 PMWhat did people with this condition do in ancient times anyway?   Suicide I guess?  Probably other things?

I'd imagine the same things they do today. Some of them just ignored it. Some fell apart in various ways. But I bet a lot of them just assumed the gender role of their identified gender and the folks around them, having no church to tell them how evil it was, simply accepted them as they would any other unusual member of the family/community.

Does no one read or study up on this stuff when they start thinking about transitioning?!?!

TS conditions are all over the ancient world in various forms. Most of the time, TS chicks are accepted into female society or given an honored position as a kind of third-sex... or in india where they have had to fall to the worst caste ever for centuries.

I would definitely say that my dysphoria was/is progressive. When I was younger, around 12 years old or so, I was able to ignore and even actively suppress my feelings. However it was at a great cost, leading to bouts of depression and internalized anger. Eventually I turned to drugs in an attempt to keep my mind off it. Luckily, I was able to get clean and get my depression in check, but the feelings that caused it were still there. Now I'm 24 and beginning my transition, which is helping, but the dysphoria is stronger and more prevalent than ever. Hopefully I'll be able to start HRT within the next month or so, which I feel will help immensely.

Based on what has happened to me, I think it is progressive.  I don't know if I will be able to hold to where I am now, but my takeaway has been that it is useless to try to suppress the feelings, that I had better learn how to be as comfortable with it as possible, and that I continue to just hang in there.

It certainly progressed over the years until I hit the wall at 54.  That was a hard wall.

   I am more way critical than before. Emotionally I am happier and I feel better. I now look at myself way closer than I use to.  Before I came out or started hrt, I didn't care about myself. I was not concerned about the way I looked. I felt like a girl but I didn't have the means to remedy it. Now I can't do enough to look good. I pick myself apart way more than before. I hope that I will find a point where I am happy with myself.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on March 27, 2014, 12:24:15 AM
Yes. Medically proven, over and over.

Hi Victoria,
Would you be able to point me to the medical information.  This would be really interesting for my wife and I to read. 

I have had periods in my life where I've almost transitioned but lately, I'm 51, it seems to so much worse.  Could it be a drop off in testosterone?
Paige

Without hormones and surgery people in ancient times (and still now!) simply did their best to present as the other gender.

In Italy there is the figure of the "femminiello" (a Neapolitan word that can be translated as "boy-girl")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femminiello

They were MtF "ante litteram" and they were respected, the article does explain a bit of the story, interesting.

Quote from: Marina mtf on March 29, 2014, 04:43:01 AM
Without hormones and surgery people in ancient times (and still now!) simply did their best to present as the other gender.

In Italy there is the figure of the "femminiello" (a Neapolitan word that can be translated as "boy-girl")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femminiello

They were MtF "ante litteram" and they were respected, the article does explain a bit of the story, interesting.

Actually they did have castration methods...some used rocks to crush their testicles and the other method I've heard of is a red hot piece of iron, they pull out your junk and cut it off with the iron so you don't bleed to death.

This is more so with Roman mystery cults of Dionysus and Cybele.

I'm a long time lurker and sometimes I poke my head up to chime in...

This whole topic of "does it every go away?" and its evil twin "does it just get worse?" has been at the bottom of my struggles for a very long time. I've known since I was 5 that I was born with the wrong body. But through a combination of denial, stubbornness, fear and lack of information (because I could never bring myself to Google any of my problems) I managed to keep myself from ever finding out what words like Gender Dysphoria and Transgender really meant. Seven years ago I accidentally read a magazine article about Transgender people and their struggles. I say accidentally because normally I would have seen the title, averted my eyes and then clicked to the next article on the screen as quickly as possible. I didn't look away that particular day and, as they say, my bell went off. I've been a mess to one degree or another now for the last seven years.

In one way that was a really great turning point in my life because it enabled me to really understand myself for the first time - and hey, who wouldn't like that. So that part was good. But, within a day or two of the denial lifting came the question about what to do about this. What to do? And this is the point where I really started to focus on the question about whether this will ever go away and also whether it will just get worse. Sadly, in looking back I can see that I was still very much in denial mode and that kept me for a long time from thinking the right way about the answers to those questions.

I was 37 when I read that article and had my breakthrough. If I had allowed myself to think it through the right way, the question of whether it ever will go away would have been clear, at least in my personal case. The answer is no. Maybe NO is the better way to type it. I had struggled with this since the age of 5, so at that point it had already been 32 years. 32 years! Other than eating, sleeping etc. there aren't many other threads that have run that long through my life. It should have been clear to me then, but it still took about 5 more years to really make peace with the fact that this just will never go away. And why should it? It's who I am.

The other question was a little harder to think through: will it get worse? When I had that breakthrough seven years ago, it got tremendously worse. But, my usual blend of denial, stubbornness and god knows what else led me to the conclusion that while it was worse at the time it would get better once the shock went away. It just HAD to, right? Nope. It's true that in the last seven years (or the last 39 years really) I've had some stretches where it subsides a tiny bit, but never all the way. Mostly it is torture. And, it seems to just get stronger each year.

I'm 44 now and in the last year I've made peace with two things: this will be with me until the day I die and it will probably keep on getting worse since that has been the trend for like forever. I'm past those questions now, and that's a big achievement for me. Now I'm on to this question: how will I feel about all of this on my death bed if I do nothing about this? Happy thought LOL. I don't mean it in a morbid way. It's really just the next natural question to ask. If it won't go away and it will likely keep on getting worse, will it inevitably be something I think about on that last day? And, if it is, what will my thoughts and feelings be? Ok - so it is a little morbid... Sorry. My job now is to try to take this particular issue off the list of regrets I have on my last day - lord knows it will be a long enough list by then anyway. What I do to accomplish that is still unknown. I'm obviously slow in working through all of this stuff.

Who knows - maybe this thought of my death bed and what I'll think about all of this if I do nothing is the main reason why it continues to get worse for me. The powerful fear of potential future regret.

We're all unique people and so this, like everything, affects people in different ways. But, from my own experience and my years of lurking on this forum, I can say that for me and many others it does get worse if you don't do something. I just hope that me, you and everyone else in this boat can find the "something" we each will need in order to be happy in the end.

Ok - that's me poking my head up and chiming in. This is why I don't post very often, I just end up writing a rambling book and probably don't even really contribute much in the end.

You contributed a lot.

Worse?  or stronger?  Worse is when we fight it.  Stronger sounds like the natural progression.  Doesn't have to be negative perception, intensification is  probably just that, turning up the volume.  So do I flow with it or fight it?  Couldn't fight it have to flow with it.  Hardest thing for me is increasing obsession.

Hormones helped a lot.  A ton of ongoing therapy helps a lot.  Friends in here and out there help a lot.

I have no vision yet.  I had one of me full transition shopping about ten years from now.  It may happen it may not happen.  I don't know. I may be able to live this social male really female life for a long time and will if I can doing more or less comfortably, for the gains of being socially male.   But I cannot safely predict how long it will last.  Does it tear me apart now?  Not as much.  Because I cannot predict.  But I can predict that off hormones, and off shrink, I am really in trouble.  On hormones, on shrink, I have a shot at self acceptance.

It helps.

God Bless.

Quote from: Satinjoy on March 29, 2014, 01:59:32 PM
You contributed a lot.

Worse?  or stronger?  Worse is when we fight it.  Stronger sounds like the natural progression.  Doesn't have to be negative perception, intensification is  probably just that, turning up the volume.  So do I flow with it or fight it?  Couldn't fight it have to flow with it.  Hardest thing for me is increasing obsession.

Hormones helped a lot.  A ton of ongoing therapy helps a lot.  Friends in here and out there help a lot.

I have no vision yet.  I had one of me full transition shopping about ten years from now.  It may happen it may not happen.  I don't know. I may be able to live this social male really female life for a long time and will if I can doing more or less comfortably, for the gains of being socially male.   But I cannot safely predict how long it will last.  Does it tear me apart now?  Not as much.  Because I cannot predict.  But I can predict that off hormones, and off shrink, I am really in trouble.  On hormones, on shrink, I have a shot at self acceptance.

It helps.

God Bless.

yes , hormones and therapy

QuoteWorse?  or stronger?  Worse is when we fight it.  Stronger sounds like the natural progression.  Doesn't have to be negative perception, intensification is  probably just that, turning up the volume.  So do I flow with it or fight it?  Couldn't fight it have to flow with it.  Hardest thing for me is increasing obsession.

Hmmm. It's funny how a word choice can belie your true thoughts. I had meant to imply stronger in the sense that you've described it. But, I used "worse" a few times in my post. So, to expand on this a little: to me it does seem to be getting stronger and more intense and I would guess that it does the same for many others who don't address it. In addition to that, I myself don't necessarily feel good about that fact. It's scary and there aren't for me any options that seem likely to make me happier in the end. The stronger it gets, the harder and scarier it seems to be to cope with it. That's probably where my use of the negative word "worse" is coming from. I bet most people find that it gets stronger as time goes on, but not as many feel it gets worse. There are many great examples of people on this forum who turned and faced this bravely and resolutely as it got stronger for them. Then there are the ones like me who seem to either resist, fight or become paralyzed with fear the stronger it gets.

You are doing things that help you and so, to me, you are already heading in the right direction. There isn't one single solution that works for everyone and it sounds like you are thinking through things, focusing on the positives and doing what fits you. The future is unknown. Just do what you can to keep your actions or inactions with this off your own list of regrets later in life. As long as you keep facing it and keep doing what feels right at the time (whatever that might be), you'll be fine.

To expand on my first post, like I said, I'm not certain my dysphoria got any worse with time. My substance abuse, suicidal actions, self injury, failed socialization, failed schooling, etc in the earlier years were evidence enough the problem was quite intense. What I think may be the best way to describe my switch to dealing with my dysphoria and transition, is I grew into maturity, and forced myself to find non-destructive ways to deal with my pain and overall situation. I think my fear of complete failure financially(with no friend or family support) eventually was ameliorated by the knowledge that TS people can succeed and thrive. It took my own basic progress in so many areas over time to give me the confidence to know transition was nothing...A mountain to climb, sure, but as with anything proper preparation prevents pee poor performance.

Hi Aisia;
Yes I am the same as you. As I have got older the Dysphoria has got worse and 12 months a major stressful situation at work, triggered a huge resurgence, whIch I had managed to keep in check, by being 150% focussed on work activities. When all that seemed to come apart , my GID  overwhelmed me and I had urgently to re-start the transition. I actually transitioned before at the age of 32 and lived full time for nearly 2 years, but work pressures and money (and family) forced me back.

This time, when I presented again  as a woman I was quickly put back on low dose HRT (and they found my T Levels - very low in the blood work up) and everything became  calm again, but as the changes started to be evident, I found I was asking my doctor to increase the dosage. He did three times as I really felt the HRT was becoming addictive. Its only a recent health scare that  put me back on hold  for the last 3 months, but unfortunately the Gender dysphoria is starting to overwhelm me again. Luckily I have just got the all clear to start again. But I do agree HRT is addictive!

I had therapy yesterday and two things came up.  One was in my current state, SRS is out.  But the other is the choice I am making to try to keep where I am at, where I am at.  I don't know if I can do it comfortably, but I have so much to lose if I progress to FTE (might was well consider me a fully transitioned preop at this point anyway, thats how I am every moment I can be safely) - that I have to at least try to hang in there as the stealth person.

My body is going to (deliciously) progress.  My feelings probably will too.  So will my physical attractions.  The big deal is, will I stay within these current boundaries, or push them and lose all.

The way the hormones happened, it was a meltdown.  It got worse and worse little by little and all it took was BPH and finding out what finesteride did and I went right over the edge.

I don't know where this will end.  But I know where I am now, is a happy place.  A very happy place of peace.

Quote from: Satinjoy on April 09, 2014, 09:15:40 PM

The way the hormones happened, it was a meltdown.  It got worse and worse little by little and all it took was BPH and finding out what finesteride did and I went right over the edge.

Hi Satinjoy,

Wow that's interesting I've recently been diagnosed with BPH too and my GP and I are discussing finesteride.  I have to do an ultrasound first, but then I'm expecting to start the prescription.  I was on it a few years back for hair, but apparently for prostate it's 5 times stronger. 

Was this all it took for you to go over the edge or were you already taking other hormones.  My dysphoria is pretty bad now, should I expect this to make it much worse?

Thanks,
Paige 

It was all it took.  I went over the edge because it is one of the three transformation drugs, and when I did the research on finesteride, I encoutered Susan's and other info.  But the dysphoria siezed on having an excuse to get somewhere on hormones, and then it got traction and I cracked and went to an endo.  I tried to manipulate him into giving me estrogen, and wise old guy that he was, he told me to get a shrink and a letter, and that it wasn't my fault that I was trans, and that I probably had a response to estrogen he would not have which he attributes to having estrogen receptors in my brain (I am quite sure I have those).  And he was very worried about me.  And so my journey into health began with the hopes for a "She lived happily ever after" ending.