I think that's a safe bet. A lot of girls seem to wait around 12 months before doing the surgical stuff. But then again, a lot of girls say that they see more changes as the years go on and even after SRS/orchiectomy. Two years is a really good amount of time to give things to settle!

I think, like everything, it varies by person. 2 years seems like a reasonable point, but I and others *have* seen changes since then, so who knows. (Of course, it's more subtle now, and it might just be aging. I don't *think* so, but how could I tell...?)

Hrt didnt make me pass, it just doesn't work that way, ffs surgery made me pass..

Jebee : I beg to differ. That's your experience, but it's not everyone's. I haven't been misgendered since six months into HRT, and that includes doctors and people doing up-close exams (that didn't involve my pre-op genitals, obviously). Some people need FFS, and more people choose it, and that's absolutely fine, but it's not necessary for *everyone.*

Heck, I've had people ARGUE with me when I said I was trans! They thought I was joking...

I couldn't agree more Jenna.

Yep and that's why it's a good idea to wait a little while. Sometimes people end up extremely passable from HRT alone. Sometimes though we need a little help with the bone structure part. And also don't forget that getting FFS can actually be unsatisfactory too. But it is rare that it will harm the looks of a face if in the hands of a good surgeon.

I started a few weeks before my twentieth birth day and I still don't think I pass despite being on hrt for over three years now. I look andro even in boy or girl mode. Here is a pic of my boy mode with no make up on or anything.

Before HRT I passed 30% of the time.
I really started to pass (80% of the time) somewhere after 3 months (I already had a somewhat female face / figure).
At the 5 months marker I almost always pass.

From looking at your photos, plucking your eyebrows thinner and higher will do an insane degree of feminisation to your face.

Also: Earrings/Get your ears pierced. Earrings are insanely important.

I think you'd pass well with your eyebrows done and earrings.

Quote from: jebee on April 05, 2014, 06:11:26 PM
Hrt didnt make me pass, it just doesn't work that way, ffs surgery made me pass..

HRT and electrolysis made me pass. They were both instrumental for me. Don't underestimate the effects of HRT.

Quote from: Ruth Ruthless on March 27, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
Hey, I'm 3 months on mtf hrt and my face is what I have the most dysphoria about. I feel there have been absolutely no changes there unfortunately though I have been getting some breast growth... but as I said the face is most important to me and breast growth feels worthless to me if my face doesn't change.

I'm a non op transgender doing hormones and laser and I want to avoid other operations if possible. Me not wanting to do bottom surgery means in my country I am denied any financial help with other surgeries because I "am not a full woman" according to the sex change commitee here in Israel :/

So basically 3 questions... and I know YMMV which is why I hope to get lots of answers to see the general range of possabilities.

First: poll! Did HRT do enough to your face to allow you to pass without facial surgery and if so how long did it take or when did you start seeing changes?

Second: How long should I wait to see what HRT and laser hair removal do before it's likely this is as good as it gets and I need to consider surgery if it's not enough?

Third: I always was skinny even now after hormones I have to "work hard" to get fat and it always goes first to the tummy before it spreads elsewhere, and I lose it elsewhere before I lose it in my tummy... and I want to pass but I also want to stay skinny. Could that be stifling my transition or probably it's just going to take time either way?

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers! And my apologies if this has been asked a lot...

This is a video I shot 4 days ago so you can see how I look now. People still refer to me as male all the time and I want to work in acting and no one hires me because I don't look female enough for them and I don't want to work as a man.

I got really lucky.  I have a real girly face even without hormones and I have always passed easily. I don't even wear makeup but I have been taking estrogen now for about six months and I'm starting to see facial changes like more pronounced cheek bones, changes to the eyes and skin softening.  It take a while though.  I have some small breasts too but nothing to get too excited about.  If I can get an orchiectomy I think I'll see better results from the estrogen.  I'm also very petite which helps a lot. 

Quote from: Ruth Ruthless on March 27, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
So basically 3 questions... and I know YMMV which is why I hope to get lots of answers to see the general range of possabilities.

First: poll! Did HRT do enough to your face to allow you to pass without facial surgery and if so how long did it take or when did you start seeing changes?

At 3 months on HRT, I was starting to be able to pass even without makeup. The facial hair was the biggest factor on me passing.

Quote from: Ruth Ruthless on March 27, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
Second: How long should I wait to see what HRT and laser hair removal do before it's likely this is as good as it gets and I need to consider surgery if it's not enough?

For surgery, you definitely want to wait at least a year on HRT before even seeing a surgeon about it.
Laser hair removal only works on dark hair and fair skin. For me it looks like after the 6th or 7th session, I'll be done (I've had 5 sessions.) I still have some white hairs to deal with with electrolysis. (I've been doing both at the same time with my electrologists working only on the white hairs.) So people can take up to 10-14 sessions for laser. (Sessions are about 5 weeks apart from each other.)

Quote from: Ruth Ruthless on March 27, 2014, 04:28:15 PM
Third: I always was skinny even now after hormones I have to "work hard" to get fat and it always goes first to the tummy before it spreads elsewhere, and I lose it elsewhere before I lose it in my tummy... and I want to pass but I also want to stay skinny. Could that be stifling my transition or probably it's just going to take time either way?

I would not stay too skinny so you can build up your breasts. Once they come in, you can loose the tummy and the breasts will stay then. It's just my opinion based on what I've seen, but your mileage may vary.