I believe that not enough had ever been said about the importance of feminization in a woman's life.

Now, this isn't to say that every transgender person will want to arrive at congruity within social circle, some may find being Trans comforting or even special and unique.
However I would argue that for most, ending up being somewhat unique is a simple fact of accepting the glass being half full.

Half full is pretty good, it is known as the optimistic outlook at life, and yes, it is, yet for some such reality seems missing the other half, the fullness of experience.

I believe that it is crucial to explain to TS woman who started their transition later on in their life that until faminization they need to accept the fact of being labeled trans by public at large.

Is someone gets called "SIR" weather consciously as a derogatory term, or indifferently, the fact it self means that they for some reason give of clues of masculinity, weather walk talk or facial characteristics.

Rationalization that it is simply the onlookers mean spirited remark, which in fact may be true, but such remark is brought on by their observation of gender markers.
If someone does make a derogatory remark to who they perceive a woman, they usually result to calling her Bit@$, Cu&^, Di&, etc.

It is a rough journey, paved with unreal obstacles and painful circumstances but at the end it proves it self a life saver.

Everyone who starts the journey late, should realize that if they are looking forth to one day being seen as a woman and not a Transwoman, should also factor in the necessity of feminization.

Quote from: innainka on April 07, 2014, 01:22:25 PM

Is someone gets called "SIR" weather consciously as a derogatory term, or indifferently, the fact it self means that they for some reason give of clues of masculinity, weather walk talk or facial characteristics.

Rationalization that it is simply the onlookers mean spirited remark, which in fact may be true, but such remark is brought on by their observation of gender markers.
If someone does make a derogatory remark to who they perceive a woman, they usually result to calling her Bit@$, Cu&^, Di&, etc.

Everyone who starts the journey late, should realize that if they are looking forth to one day being seen as a woman and not a Transwoman, should also factor in the necessity of feminization.

Pretty much right on. I thought this deserved a bump.

I'm pulled apart by this. I pass almost everywhere, and where I don't, it's usually not my face that gives me away. But I wear broad glasses and a wig with bangs to hide my forehead and eyebrow ridge. It would be nice not to do that.

I've decided after more than a year of soul searching that I will get SRS. But I'm still a no for FFS. I'm not sure I want someone, even a skilled surgeon, hacking at my facial bones. I've heard from too many woman who have heavy nerve damage from their surgery, even many years later.

Also, I've lived in my community for many years, and I'm not about to leave just because I've transitioned. No matter what I do with my face, my co-workers and friends are going to know who I used to be.

This is a huge issue for me, and for others also. I don't "try" to act or behave in a certain way anymore, I just am. Wondering if you're being too masculine, or too feminine - who needs it, honestly? It's an emotional drain, and serves no purpose at all. I get misgendered all the time - I get Ma'am'ed sometimes when trying to present as male, and questioned when presenting as myself.

I really don't like the focus on "passing" - passing as what? Passing as a woman? Are we not women? Why would we want to "pass", as if we're PRETENDING to be something we're not, since we already are?

I have lost endless sleep over "OMG, I won't ever pass!!!" and have come to realize that it's a completely pointless task. Just be yourselves and stop trying to "pass".

Now, if you were to, say, change the topic to mean something along the lines of dressing the same as other women, or wearing makeup the same way as other women, then that would be completely different.

But "passing" or "visual integration", seriously, haven't we all wasted enough time on this already? All it does is cause pain for those who don't think that they can "pass" well enough, needless pain. Once you accept yourself, others will begin to accept you. There is no pass or fail.

Hugs
Kelsie

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 08, 2014, 01:04:20 PM
I'm pulled apart by this. I pass almost everywhere, and where I don't, it's usually not my face that gives me away. But I wear broad glasses and a wig with bangs to hide my forehead and eyebrow ridge. It would be nice not to do that.

I've decided after more than a year of soul searching that I will get SRS. But I'm still a no for FFS. I'm not sure I want someone, even a skilled surgeon, hacking at my facial bones. I've heard from too many woman who have heavy nerve damage from their surgery, even many years later.

Also, I've lived in my community for many years, and I'm not about to leave just because I've transitioned. No matter what I do with my face, my co-workers and friends are going to know who I used to be.

I don't think of feminization as running away from the past!
In fact I think of it as becoming more whole as a woman, within the visual, socially engaging plateau.
But I know for the fact that human beings are extremely visual creatures. Our perception through sight is extremely well developed, and even for those who knew us before, the more convincing the facade, the more they act towards us as they do towards any innate woman.
Now, we are not going to change the world, given that even naturally born woman face criticism and prejudice, but making an everyday a bit more bearable on our conscious and subconscious mind through integration. To never again hear someone whisper in the distance, or giggle, or simply look us straight in the eye and call us this most dreadful of sounds. I do live this wonderful reality, and speaking from my own experience, even though I sometimes forget how immensely painful was to see others point me out, now I embrace the beauty of simply being one of the women, and sometimes even looked upon as pretty, I would wish this reality on anyone still in the midst of turmoil of transition.

Quote from: KelsieJ on April 08, 2014, 04:52:13 PM
This is a huge issue for me, and for others also. I don't "try" to act or behave in a certain way anymore, I just am. Wondering if you're being too masculine, or too feminine - who needs it, honestly? It's an emotional drain, and serves no purpose at all. I get misgendered all the time - I get Ma'am'ed sometimes when trying to present as male, and questioned when presenting as myself.

I really don't like the focus on "passing" - passing as what? Passing as a woman? Are we not women? Why would we want to "pass", as if we're PRETENDING to be something we're not, since we already are?

I have lost endless sleep over "OMG, I won't ever pass!!!" and have come to realize that it's a completely pointless task. Just be yourselves and stop trying to "pass".

Now, if you were to, say, change the topic to mean something along the lines of dressing the same as other women, or wearing makeup the same way as other women, then that would be completely different.

But "passing" or "visual integration", seriously, haven't we all wasted enough time on this already? All it does is cause pain for those who don't think that they can "pass" well enough, needless pain. Once you accept yourself, others will begin to accept you. There is no pass or fail.

Hugs
Kelsie

that's why I have already written this above:

QuoteNow, this isn't to say that every transgender person will want to arrive at congruity within social circle, some may find being Trans comforting or even special and unique.
However I would argue that for most, ending up being somewhat unique is a simple fact of accepting the glass being half full.

I do realize that this subject isn't for everybody, in fact it isn't for many. Only few will succeed to fully come over to the other side. Those who do are in my eyes after completely different aspect or reality of life and living. In fact I know few women, and honestly their path towards this reality was fueled with immensely powerful need to arrive!

Quote from: KelsieJ on April 08, 2014, 04:52:13 PM

But "passing" or "visual integration", seriously, haven't we all wasted enough time on this already? All it does is cause pain for those who don't think that they can "pass" well enough, needless pain. Once you accept yourself, others will begin to accept you. There is no pass or fail.

Hugs
Kelsie

^THIS^  The day I ran out of sh%ts to give about what anyone else thought of me was one of the most important milestones of my life.   When my attitude changed, it was evident that people's attitudes toward me shifted as well.  I accept me, and that's what matters most.  And yes, I have issues with the word "pass", as it implies the oh-so-depressing opposite.  Do I really "pass"?  I don't know and I really don't care.  I don't go around asking people.   I'm just me and if you don't like it, well, bummer. 

I can't believe I'm doing this again, but +1

EXACTLY!!! Thank you, Jill F

As I said though, not to say we don't want to look our best, but at the end of the day, I don't think it's healthy to pre-occupy yourself with the question "Do I fit in?" - which is what the question really is about.

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I personally *would* care how passable I am, such as, if I'm walking by a group of belligerent men looking for an excuse to give someone a beat down.

You catch my drift.

Even though this isn't about passing, it is about being.
The term "passing" is widely misused as it in fact describes the opposite of intent!
If I pass as German, I obviously am not a German but only look like one.
So when you pass as a woman you really not a woman, you just look like one.
And I believe that in the core of my thread lies the essence of not only being, which I assume, we all are women here, but also the visual aspect of being an innate, natural and without a question!

Quote from: innainka on April 08, 2014, 05:02:34 PM
Only few will succeed to fully come over to the other side.

By whose standards? All of us who transition whether we pass or not ARE real women and HAVE made it to the other side. A lot of us don't depend on looks, which is vanity, but what is in our very heart and soul. We are most definitely female and ARE on the other side.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 08, 2014, 06:34:18 PM
By whose standards? All of us who transition whether we pass or not ARE real women and HAVE made it to the other side. A lot of us don't depend on looks, which is vanity, but what is in our very heart and soul. We are most definitely female and ARE on the other side.

I suppose my understanding of the other side is still within the binary of gender, I started with body which resembled that of a male, which in fact was a body of a male, and transitioned that body into one which resembles female. Of course nothing else had changed, I still am as much a woman as I ever was, perhaps running on estrogen rather then Testosterone before.
And once again, I am NOT dismissing the truth everyone holds in their heart, yes we are all woman here, I think I am making that point for the third time, however my discussion is about visual transition of an Avatar we occupy.

However I can judge that this subject is quite sensitive as I believed it would be, and that is why I have touched on such topic.

Quote from: KelsieJ on April 08, 2014, 04:52:13 PM
This is a huge issue for me, and for others also. I don't "try" to act or behave in a certain way anymore, I just am. Wondering if you're being too masculine, or too feminine - who needs it, honestly? It's an emotional drain, and serves no purpose at all. I get misgendered all the time - I get Ma'am'ed sometimes when trying to present as male, and questioned when presenting as myself.

I really don't like the focus on "passing" - passing as what? Passing as a woman? Are we not women? Why would we want to "pass", as if we're PRETENDING to be something we're not, since we already are?

I have lost endless sleep over "OMG, I won't ever pass!!!" and have come to realize that it's a completely pointless task. Just be yourselves and stop trying to "pass".

Now, if you were to, say, change the topic to mean something along the lines of dressing the same as other women, or wearing makeup the same way as other women, then that would be completely different.

But "passing" or "visual integration", seriously, haven't we all wasted enough time on this already? All it does is cause pain for those who don't think that they can "pass" well enough, needless pain. Once you accept yourself, others will begin to accept you. There is no pass or fail.

Hugs
Kelsie

Kelsie;
I do sure like your perspective about this. Even though I am just beginning down this path, the more therapy I have and me just being who I am finally, this is more my outlook on the whole ball of wax so to speak. Especially now that I have let myself be who I am and not shove it back in some deep dark hole like I have for the last 45 years. As I am older, perhaps I fall into the category of not worrying about what people think anymore. There are times I fall into the whole vanity thing, but usually I stop and think why and stop. Of course I want to look nice, what women doesn't. But I think that come from how you feel inside more than anything else.

I would love to just blend in some day. I understand the post intent. I may never achieve the blend in. 

To what extent I eventually decide to do I do not know yet.

I have been an outsider all my life and never fit in. I do not think that will change and perhaps get a bit worse at least for a while.

I have thought of eventual FFS but I have so much ahead that and FFS is so far away. I guess I never expected to blend in 100%.

Quote from: Veronica M
Kelsie;
I do sure like your perspective about this. Even though I am just beginning down this path, the more therapy I have and me just being who I am finally, this is more my outlook on the whole ball of wax so to speak. Especially now that I have let myself be who I am and not shove it back in some deep dark hole like I have for the last 45 years. As I am older, perhaps I fall into the category of not worrying about what people think anymore. There are times I fall into the whole vanity thing, but usually I stop and think why and stop. Of course I want to look nice, what women doesn't. But I think that come from how you feel inside more than anything else.

Hi Veronica,

I'm still in the early stages myself and aren't that far in age from you. I do worry about safety, etc, as another poster mentioned, but I don't think that "passing" is the key to being left alone, but more attitude and general appearence. If you look like a man in a dress, you are a man in a dress. If you look like a woman who doesn't know how to dress, you look like a poorly dressed woman. If you dress how other women around you are dressed, and are confident in who you are, then I don't think that facial features or physical size, or traditional "male" attributes will matter one iota.

Welcome to our club
Kelsie

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle
I would love to just blend in some day. I understand the post intent. I may never achieve the blend in. 

To what extent I eventually decide to do I do not know yet.

I have been an outsider all my life and never fit in. I do not think that will change and perhaps get a bit worse at least for a while.

I have thought of eventual FFS but I have so much ahead that and FFS is so far away. I guess I never expected to blend in 100%.

Hi Cynthia,

What makes you think that you don't or won't "blend in"? Oftentimes, we're our own worst enemy, and see things other people do not. Because we have memories of how we used to look like, and we often miss the changes that make other people guess or gender us female. Our brains are wired to recognize people, so we alwasy recognize ourselves. I think that a lot of people expect to look totally different and have expectations that are idealized and not based on reality. The best any of us can hope for, is to look like we're sisters of our old appearence.

I have seen many many images of pre and post-FFS, and have to say that I don't think FFS is the "answer" for anyone, because self-acceptance and the right makeup will do far more to make someone appear more feminine than shaving bone and going through the agony.

Hugs
Kelsie