I've never done a tigger notice before. Thought this might be worthy.

After I got done singing Genesis's "I Can't Dance" at karaoke, I got off the stage to find a drunk woman talking to a cis friend of mine. I heard something to the effect of, "Are you a man too?" Come from the drunk and all I could think was "uh oh".

I interjected, "Are you talking about what I think you're talking about?" The drunk woman then started to go through these motions of like self congratulations, "don't feel bad, I'm extra sensitive to people like you cause someone I had a crush on is a t****y too." I'd soon gently educate her on the offensiveness of her speech.

Going a little off topic, my friend started to channel Batman. "How dare you question my friends sexuality just cause of how she sings!??" And the intensity just kept going up from there. "Step off!" was shouted. The finger was given. Threats to call the cops made. The drunk woman kept trying to draw me in, calling me "he" frequently. I just wanted it to be over. I remained calm and figured the woman was drunk, so the odds of making any real progress with her was next to nothing. I still wanted to tell her how offensive her language was, hoping that info would survive her stupor, so I did by at least telling her how offensive t****y is.

"You look very pretty, but I can tell you're a man." The drunk said full of pride. This was all on top of being told that morning that, "Paige, I know you're a woman but when I look at you I see a man."

Both misgenderings hurt. But the drunk, it was like it was a game for her and she was proud of "winning". The one in the morning was rough because she prefaced her words with "I hope you hope you don't think I'm horrible for saying this..."

My cis friend remained upset about the injustice of the situation. I tried to explain to her I know what I look and sound like. I know the risk I'm taking every time I get up to sing because I don't fit the "common knowledge" of what a woman looks like.

I did go home and looked up FFS but soon caught myself over how foolish it would be for me to go after FFS to please someone who is not me.

I'm not sure I know what I'm looking for by sharing this story. It really just strikes me as share worthy.

Quote from: Misato on April 09, 2014, 07:03:16 AM
After I got done singing Genesis's "I Can't Dance" at karaoke, I got off the stage to find a drunk woman talking to a cis friend of mine. I heard something to the effect of, "Are you a man too?" Come from the drunk and all I could think was "uh oh".

I interjected, "Are you talking about what I think you're talking about?"

Did you really expect to win an argument with a drunk? All she deserved was a simple "No" in reply to her question and if she persisted just say "You are drunk and if you do not stop harrassing me I will call the cops". You have a right to privacy.

It is difficult to decide when to educate and when to stonewall. A few weeks ago I was asked a similar question at a dinner dance I was attending, but the lady in question waited until the toilets were empty so that only she and I were there and then said "May I ask you a very personal question?". I thought about it for 10 seconds and decided that she since had shown some consideration I would risk it so I said that she could ask, but I might not answer. So she asked if I was transgender and I said "No, I am transsexual". We chatted for a couple of minutes and she told me that I looked fabulous and wished me the best and left. Afterwards I was a bit ambivalent - happy that she handled it so well, but annoyed that she asked at all.

I will admit that these things happen very rarely to me, but my preference is not to disclose anything. Why should I?

Quote from: Misato on April 09, 2014, 07:03:16 AM
I'm not sure I know what I'm looking for by sharing this story. It really just strikes me as share worthy.

It's painful and degrading to be misgendered, even by a drunk with no empathy. I think this would have profoundly upset most of us. Heck, most cis women I know would be put off balance by someone insisting they were a man.

It's something I'm going to have to live with. There will always be little "tells", and I'm not going to live a stealth lifestyle anyway. As long as those things are true, I'll be misgendered from time to time. I had a perfectly sober gay guy who works as a mental health counselor clock me at a dinner with a bunch of people I was meeting for the first time. He kept bring up transgender people to me as if I would be profoundly interested. When I called him on it afterward, he didn't seem to think he had done anything wrong.

The @$$holes of the world will always be there. Each time we meet them, at least our skin becomes one layer thicker.

"I hope you hope you don't think I'm horrible for saying this..."

Translation: I'm going to say something horrible but I'm hoping you won't make me feel bad about it.

Quote from: provizora3 on April 09, 2014, 07:49:01 AM
Did you really expect to win an argument with a drunk?

No, but she was having an already heated discussion with my friend who was also sober but who also is prone to ramping the intensity up. And, to be clear, it was my cis friend that was asked if she was trans. Anyway, because I sing the way I do I felt and feel responsible to get more involved in the situation.

I do prefer to disclose and be open about my transition. My take on it is yeah, it's something I had to do and it's become pretty routine at this point. I hope that by treating transition as a normal, everyday thing myself that it's a step toward making it a normal, everyday, uninteresting thing for everyone.

Even if I could live in stealth suzi I know I wouldn't. I feel like I'm putting up some kind of barrier between myself and the people I know when I have felt restrained over the topic. I don't like that. Once more when I've been open, and I allow the people I'm talking to to get to know me, far more often than not I'm extended cisgender privilege.

All this makes me think of matters regarding my name. My boy name was the one thing I protected for a while until a friend of mine said, "You know Paige, when you avoid that question it makes people think you've got something to hide and puts distance between you and them." I thought about it and I got myself thinking she was right. It was common knowledge, to me anyway, that people aren't supposed to ask trans people what their former name was. I shied away from answering the old name question simply because I thought that's what was done. I never made the decision myself. So, I resolved that if someone asks as long as it's not phrased like, "What's your real name?" I see no harm in it. On top of that, search for my name on Google, click next page 7 times and on that 7th page, you'll find my old name and all the information you'll need to connect the two. For me it's better to own up to the old name than be owned by it.

I think from all of this I'm just evaluating my approach. I think I'm going ahead with staying the course.

Nothing worse than a drunk bully.

Cool that you get up on stage

ok, Paige, can I ask a .. um.. personal question then?  I just want to know, what song did you sing, and were you good? 


And I am sorry about the drunk.. in another time, I probably would have gone with..  "you're drunk, and behaving stupid.. and in the morning, you'll be sober, and still be behaving stupid.."

Sorry you had a run-in with a rude person who thinks they have infallible "trans radar" (and feels the need to voice their supposed findings, crudely at that). Wonder how many cis people she has seen and patted herself on the back for "spotting a trans person", because it really doesn't work that way.

Quote from: AnneB on April 10, 2014, 01:51:07 PM
ok, Paige, can I ask a .. um.. personal question then?  I just want to know, what song did you sing, and were you good? 

She started in on me after Genesis's "I Can't Dance." I think I'd done Deep Blue Something's "Breakfast at Tiffany's" and Meredith Brooks "Bitch" and Garbage's "Only Happy When It Rains".

I was a little off key that night.

Quote from: blink on April 10, 2014, 02:19:20 PM
Sorry you had a run-in with a rude person who thinks they have infallible "trans radar" (and feels the need to voice their supposed findings, crudely at that). Wonder how many cis people she has seen and patted herself on the back for "spotting a trans person", because it really doesn't work that way.

This. For all they know, you're a detransitioning FTM. Or hey, maybe just a cis woman. I know people like that, who think they can always "tell", but the truth is, no one can ever know for sure. Even as someone who has seen a lot of trans people, I encounter situations where I am not sure and then realize that a) it's none of my business and b) I actually am not entirely certain they are trans.

People like this know everything about everything.  Usually indicates they have no clue at all about anything!

Apart from the rare occasion I am with a group of transitioning MTFs (happened once at a voice therapy session), I live and move in a world that has the average incidence of all types of people.  I have actually noticed trans people maybe 3 times and even then I still had doubts.  My thought wasn't "I can pick them" but "if I am right, so what?  Yay them!".  Given how rarely I have consciously thought I had noticed someone trans, I must be blind or .. I am alone! 

At the pub after a few drinks, yeah, inhibitions drop and stupid things are said - actually late at night, there isn't much said that is sensible anyway....on, wait a minute, that is just me!

There's a woman at a local restaurant I go to that I'm pretty sure is trans and I feel terrible for noticing. Awkward as heck too, cause I don't know the right thing to do. I see her, she probably sees me, so we end up in this awkward dance. I find it slightly stressful.

Quote from: Misato on April 12, 2014, 12:53:17 AM
There's a woman at a local restaurant I go to that I'm pretty sure is trans and I feel terrible for noticing. Awkward as heck too, cause I don't know the right thing to do. I see her, she probably sees me, so we end up in this awkward dance. I find it slightly stressful.

Can you just go up to her and say, "Hi, my name's Paige"? You don't have to announce that you noticed her because she's trans, right?

Quote from: kate on April 17, 2014, 07:54:32 AM
It must of taken a great deal of self control to not just up and leave. Frankly if he doesn't seem to think he had done anything wrong, is it worth knowing someone like that?

I'm feeling the same way. Unfortunately I was at a dinner with a bunch of other people I did want to get to know, so getting up and leaving was not something I was thinking about.

People. What a bunch of bastards.

I'm pseudo-out. I'm 100% out at work, with my parents, with my spouse. I don't pass, and money has been an issue with hair removal (plus I'm allergic to every make-up I've tried, so that's not very helpful either) but I've been on HRT for nearly a year now. So when I'm out in public, here in god-awful Upstate South Carolina, I just deal with being called "Sir" and "he". Seems like a lot of effort to educate the willfully ignorant populous, so I don't put myself out there. But at work, I'm just Megan and everyone gets my pronouns right. But there's a bit of a story... with "patting themselves on the back" that's almost kind of funny.

When I got hired in December, a meeting was held with people about a trans* person who interviewed as a man but will be working there as a woman. I was not in the meeting, so I don't know what was said. But someone was out for 2 months on medical leave, and nobody informed him. When he came back to work in February, I just happened to be the first person he ran into. I introduced myself, and he was using masculine pronouns for me. I corrected him, and pointed to my name badge. I was polite, but a bit unnerved and it was noticeable. He said "Oh, you don't have to worry. I can tell you're a trans guy. I won't say anything to anyone."

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 17, 2014, 07:28:17 AM
Can you just go up to her and say, "Hi, my name's Paige"? You don't have to announce that you noticed her because she's trans, right?

She actually served my mom and I a few weeks back. Chatted fine, it's the unsaid knowing that gets me. Not knowing the proper etiquette.

I do love people. This morning going to buy my morning bagel the cashier said to me, "I love the shades of pink you wear, they make me happy!" That made me feel good. All the friends I've made since transition, I love them so very much. In the grand scheme of things life is good. Maybe I'm being greedy over wanting to blend in more. It occurs to me that I should be thankful for what I've got because I am tremendously blessed.

This person knew what she was doing. The alcohol gave her the impetous to say what was really on her heart. Five wil get you ten she wouldn't do this if she was sober.