I'm curious. I've recently sent of a manuscript for a novel I've worked on for almost 9 years of my life (on and off) and while I got decent feedback, they told me it's interesting, but it needs more planning and to be more concise (considering it bordered on 290,000 words I can understand that for a first time writer)

now, I'm trying to do a second draft and keep it down to the recommended 80K-100K for a first time writer, but I find myself getting to my chapters and getting stuck. Not because I dont know what I want to put in, but how I go about it. I like to have casual conversation thrown in with my characters that doesn't necessarily focus on driving the plot relentlessly, but sometimes it feels odd to me to do that.

I seem to find planning difficult, since I like some freedom, but it's making me take a lot longer than I'd hoped to be honest.

So what does anyone here do? rough outlines and then fill in the rest as you go?

I've used different planning methods for different stories.

For my first novel, I outlined the whole plot before I started and then tried to write it in order. I soon found that this wasn't working. Taking my second-born's advice, I began to write some scenes out of order. This actually helped as I then had waypoints that I simply had to connect by filling in the plot. The outline was then written while I was writing the first draft.

The outline for the second draft was written during the read-through of the first draft. Errors were noted and changes planned. My first novel had 6 complete drafts before it was published.

For other stories I'm working on, I do a little outlining ahead of time. These are usually not very detailed as it seems creating the first outline while writing the first draft is the way I work now. This is done to keep track of major plot points.

And I've found that writing scenes as they come to me is very useful. So what I do now is start with a very diaphanous plan at first and alter that plan as the story grows.

I do technical writing for the most part - so the "plot" is pretty obvious.  At one point I did write a bit about all the events regarding my Wife's passing.  That effort was mostly therapy, but I did come up with a shortened, 20,000 word little book I did pass around to rather a lot of people.

The method for constructing that was much as Constance detailed.  I wrote chunks as they came to me.  These represented decades of life and were bits here and there.  Then I connected it using chronology and working the "plot" pieces together.  If I were to do something larger as I get older the process will be much the same.  With lots and lots of reworking and many drafts.

You seem to have my problem: too many words.  Since I have the same issue my advice on avoiding it is not of a lot of use.

HTH


Erin

I initially started with trying to plan the story from beginning to end, going point to point with every single major scene and what it meant to the plot.

But as I write, I've always found that you can never plan what your story is about. You have to write it, let it come naturally, and then usually it becomes apparent what it's really about, and where the heart of it really is, after you've had some time to really get invested with your characters. And once you know what it's really about, it's much easier to make cuts.

I do mine somewhat differently than most.

I work the ending first...the last 2-3 sections/chapters, with a scene where some characters are wrapping up some great adventure.  Sometimes the names aren't even picked yet.  For example, I have "Hero" and I have "Knight" at first battling some great evil on a mountain top in the rain, but eventually I discover that the knight was a girl in disguise and the Hero's name is "John" who was nothing more than an actor pretending to be the hero and the knight was always bailing him out of trouble, which the knight was correcting him for.  They had to defeat this great evil because it was up to some diabolical plan, and the mountain was where he had to find a lost artifact to unlock some magic gate. 

That end is the goal for my story to reach, the destination I have planned.  I do not deviate from the plan: if I have to create a new ending, I create a new story or scrap the idea all together.

I then look at all the chracters in the end of the novel, and ask myself things like: how did they get there?  Who helped/hindered their progress?  What are their motives?  Why are they saying the things they are saying?  Why is the girl pretending to be a knight, and if Steve is acting like a hero where does the knight get off on calling him a fake?  The list of questions goes on and on.

Then, I start from the beginning and I allow the pieces to work IN to, not UP to, the end.  I focus around characters more so than anything...being a former psych major and goal-orientated person may have something to do with it...so to have the end in mind already, as it lets me focus on the personalities and where each character fits in to the already-established finale.  I have already given these characters their fates, so to speak.  Now it's time to move them into place.

I used this process...not the plot details mentioned above...for my sci-fi/fantasy novel called Book 0, which is set to be out as soon as I hand in the revised manuscript...within the next month or so...and I think it worked out beautifully.

I've limited experience to date, but mostly I tend to write with a plan in mind, focus on the characters, and see where things go. Which means sometimes I'll plan out a heist for a character to pull off, but it turns out the house is well guarded and she's inexperienced besides, so in the writing of it she ends up not actually pulling off the heist, but instead barely getting away with her life.

So, basically, I focus too much on characters to write any Mary Sues. So far I have a mother who died ('cause she had no reasonable chance of survival given the circumstances), a father who fell into depression and left his young daughter alone, a watchman who is a jerk surrounded by jerks who we hope could one day learn not to be a jerk, and a girl whose first big chance ended in mostly failure. (All this in a tone that (I hope) stays at least mostly positive)
I have general ideas of where they all are supposed to go, but the story itself is going where it wants. It's kinda fun following it.

not that i am speaking with much experience- i've only completed one novel. but i've learnt more ways of how not to plan stories with my earlier 'attempts' at novels so this time it was much better. i usually have the storyline evolving in my head for some time, maybe years before i actually decide it's worth writing down. so i have a rough idea of where i'm headed. but i allow the plot to change and evolve as i progress with the novel. for this story only i laid down the number of chapters and named them- which i had to change later as well. but i had a frame, only a bit elastic. i planned what scenes were compulsory for the plot and where i should be at the end of each chapter. when a chapter is getting way longer than an average chapter before i achieve the target situation of that chapter i know i'm drifting away, so i can come back. and if i realize the target is too big i let another chapter grow. in short i had a plan which was very flexible but reminded me of my limits.

check out the videos from write about dragons on youtube.  He has recorded all of Brandon Sanderson's last 2-3 years of lectures at BYU.  Brandon covers a lot of the structure and planning stuff as two types of writers which he refers to as architects and gardeners.  They have different approaches with both work in combination or alone.  Worth the watch

I write (mostly) short stories to fill niches, but I think the approach is similar. The important thing to remember is that outlines and planned approaches are meant to organize the ideas you do have and make sure you include only what you really need/want to, not restrict you from changing your story or coming up with new ideas.

I start with a premise based off of a little bit of brainstorming and inspiration such as, "Ellie had never been much for people, who always seemed more like monsters when you looked beneath the surface. Perhaps it was because of this that she sought out real monsters."

I'll also have a point to the story, such as discussing the concepts of shadow selves and enantiodromia. A kind of dreamy fantasy about opposites and the multiple sides to people and ourselves that we may not know about initially.

I'll write a paragraph describing the story without getting into the nitty-gritty, and then I'll write a paragraph on each character's personality, motivations, strengths, shortcomings, and what's not obvious about them at first or how they change. I try to avoid things like their favorite food, the way they dress, etc, and stick to their role in the story.

At that point, I have a good idea of how I want things to play out and will write down the scenes in the order they occur with a little bit about them, often coming up with some new details as I go.

Then I'm free to fill them in and make some changes along the way. 

I remember I clipped parts of my method from something called The Snowflake Method, which is meant to be used with novels: http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/

Novels are huge, complicated projects, so I feel for you trying to manage 290,000 words. Short stories might require a lot of bang for their buck in a lot less space, but 5,000 words is more manageable to look at.

You know that expression, "A picture is worth a thousand words"? Well, I've taken that approach to practicing sometimes. I'll take a piece of art that I like and ask myself what could be the story in it. I'll then set out to write a short story, which could end up becoming a chapter of a longer work, that's exactly 1,000 words long.

Also, sometimes people post things on Tumblr that just scream "writing prompt" to me.

http://2ndhalfoflife.tumblr.com/tagged/writing-prompt

some stories just write themselves, you don't even need any notes and it's just a case of keeping up with the ideas as you think of them, other stories need copious amounts of notes, whole notebooks sometimes.  I've used both methods.  The book I'm currently on writing has a couple of brief notes for each chapter but I also have other notes such as names of friends and family so I don't suddenly start calling someone's best friend by a whole different name for example

For me it is very simple, when I am driving, in the shower, taking a walk, or any other task that helps me think, I just daydream abit. Once the daydream gets into something I can use in a story I write up an outline.

Now, the ideas that start the daydreams can be really strange, like I wrote an outline for a dark fantasy story (of which the rough draft has not been finished and is still over 300 pages long...) by thinking, wouldn't it be cool to have the sort of protagonist and antagonist fighting a war story from Mobile Suit Gundam Seed set in a fantasy environment. Then I thought, unlike Gundam Seed, lets make the antagonist really evil, but still just as relatable too as Athran was. Then I thought, lets make it a love story, then I thought, lets push the philosophical question of 'is evil borne out of love really evil at all?'; Then I thought, lets also not let them win the war, even though they are on different sides, let them join up and then lose the war. Then since I was reading some really dark stuff at the time, I thought why not make things really gritty and bleak leading to some matrydom that doesn't actually accomplish the objective. The end story, has almost zero resemblance to Gundam Seed at all, except a general level that a war is happening and it focuses on both sides.

I use an olympus voice recorder to capture my daydream ideas into something that isn't so easy to forget, as I have hundreds of ideas that I seem to simply forget if I don't follow up on them.

Now, the outline itself is written by just taking the characters I was thinking of in my daydream and the scenarios that I had from my daydreaming, and writing them down. Once I have them down what I do to finish the outline is what I call "connecting the dots". Basically I define a well fleshed out history and personality for almost every character even though I don't use most of that stuff in the story. I also make the maps and the details of the world in this stage. Once I know the character though, and I know some situations I want them in, basically the characters themselves tell me what they would do, and how they get from a to b to c, and so on.

Once I have a pretty good outline, that has all of the situations and characters I want, I will write the details into a rough draft, again this basically writes itself at this point because the story is already there. In fact, the method I use basically presents only one real challenge to me and that is that I end up making so many good characters and so much world information and such that I feel obligated to start writing those characters stories as well. I have to make sure not to write these neat characters too much into the main story lest I became so sprawling in my story telling that I start to resemble game of thrones lol

I have used outlines in the past. I write out a story (or what is in my mind at the moment) then read it again the next day. I let it set so to speak. I am revising some stories I've written years ago. Editing is so important to me because I want to feel comfortable with what I've written.

I write a book in my head before I ever start to write, ever night or when yuo are bored add to it, create a world in your head before creating a world on paper. Only start writing when you want to remember a specific line of words.

I plan the main plot points out and characters then I pretty much make up the rest as I go.

Have you tried snowflaking? I used to just write stuff but would always get sucked into plot holes I couldn't get out of, so started using snowflaking as a method to develop characters and ideas. I actually turned an okay idea for one book into a really good idea for an entire series, just through trying to figure out a single characters motivation.

Spending time building the mythos of the world your story is set in is definitely a good thing as it allows you make characters behave in a way that feels real.

Idea first for me, then outline which grows in length and complexity.  I've reached the point where I know that the first draft is going to be very loosely based upon the outline, so I've given up trying to plot every last little detail out before writing.  For me, the first full draft - 100,000 words or so - is what I use as my outline, my way to test what works and what doesn't, to figure out who my characters are and how they should think and act.  Then the writing is always so uselessly bad that I start again from scratch, but at least the big mistakes have already been made.  Five to ten drafts later (some major), the manuscript ends up being finished - and looking nothing like what I had expected it to be when I started.

Personally I start by forming a basic plot then just start going for it. I let the characters shape themselves and their environment. However I don't always have much motivation to write so I find myself writing out scenes in advance in my head and thinking about how they contribute to the plot. I also tend to think about what elements of literature I can use to support the character development and what I want the theme to be

I have to answer this with a quote from Clive Barker when I asked him in a Q&A how he
organises himself in the process of writing a book:

        "I don't. Each book organizes itself around the cluster of chaotic impulses that bring me
        to the narrative in the first place. I am a labyrinth in which I have lost myself. A book is
        a way of plotting my route out."

I've had book ideas, one after the other, for years. Most of them I scrapped for just being
far too cliché in the end. I have/had another problem, though, and that's the inability to
stay focused long enough to actually see such a lengthy project through to the end. So,
basically what would be called ADHD Inattentive Type. I would practically self-medicate
with cigarettes, coffee and ephedrine tablets just to write poetry in one sitting. This was
before I realised I had anything at all, and it's co-morbid with Asperger's Syndrome which
I was actually diagnosed with in 2008.

I finally began Adderall several months ago and it has been a life-saver. Just the first day
blew open the creative floodgates, and I was able to develop a plot point for a story I had
been trying to work out for months, if not years. I had the idea for a long time, but didn't
start working on it until a couple years ago. Well, it's on the back burner again as it has
been replaced with something of which I actually feel far more synergy.

The story idea originated from an analogy I made — on this site, actually — about the bonds
we make with people between long distances. More ideas just kept flowing in, and I finally
formed a concise outline of locations, characters, plot twists and so on. Then it occurred to
me how this story could be extended into at least two more accompanying books. So, I know
exactly what my entire story arc entails, and what each individual novel's narrative will be.

Read about it here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180714.0.html

The best thing to do, really, is just carry with you something like a Moleskin notebook and
a pen (not a pencil), and make sketches, notes and scribbles that come to you when they
do. I think the more organised you try to be the more you inhibit or retard the creative
process. You basically try to fit what's going on in your Right Brain into your Left Brain like
you're trying to remove crayon from a piece of loose leaf to make it a recognisable shape
again. There is some excellent software out there, though, that let's you put everything
together so you can access readily every character outline, some note cards, and more.

Anyway, I'll end this with one more quote from Clive Barker:

        "Make your own worlds. Make your own laws. Make your own creations, your own
        star systems. Don't feel answerable to anyone, or as though you have to create after
        some preordained model. You don't have to write like myself, or King or Anne Rice:
        be yourself. Nothing is more wonderful than discovering a new voice, particularly if
        it happens to be your own."

I use outlines and go from there. Often, I draw my world, or objects in it. I attempt to plan characters sometimes, but I'm not very good at that. If it's a sci-fi or fantasy setting, I carefully design laws, magic, technology and history to ridiculous detail. It helps me to picture the world, gives me a feel for what it does, how it works, and it also helps me feel that I'm describing events realistically.

For an example, I was planning a story, and a hover board was involved. In order to properly describe the events, I designed the hover board (well, the shell anyway. I think the science would be beyond me), calculated its mass based on the density of the materials used, gave it a maximum velocity and acceleration, calculated how far the characters traveled in 30 seconds, and used trigonometry based on a max angle of ascent to figure out how high they went. I later sketched out the board, which helped connect it altogether. Quite obsessive.