Quote from: Elijah on April 19, 2014, 02:47:15 PM
I'm pagan, and it seems like there are like 6 or 7 women witches for every 1 male witch, which kinda sucks actually, oh well

Most pagans I know are male, but that may be because most pagans I know are Asatru.

Not sure if this counts, but I'm a huge Loki fan who seems to be more popular with women. That said, I've been a fan of Loki (Norse mythology) ever since I was a kid because he reminds me of myself and I'm a fan of the Marvel Loki for similar reasons (although I see them as two separate characters). Most "Loki" fans I meet now are just fans of his attractiveness which kind of pisses me off.

Interesting topic. The catch for me is it has to be "unmanly" traits that I like having and wouldn't change. Even some things I like, I have a "defense" for. Other things, not sure why some people consider it feminine in the first place.

I have decent organizational and housekeeping skills. I don't subscribe to the idea of "women's work" or that men are naturally slobs while women are naturally tidy. There's nothing cool about a grown man having the capacity to do house work but refusing, or never learning how.

I'm good at several crafts. There are other men into the same crafts, but I wonder how many guys are interested but avoid such hobbies because of the "it's for girls" factor.

I enjoy cute things, pretty things, colors, textures, and patterns. I doubt this is rare amongst men, it is just expressed differently due to social expectations. I didn't escape this programming, despite people thinking I was a girl. It shows much more in my hobbies than my clothing.

Emphasis necessary to convey how much I f---ing love tea. Almost any kind of tea. White, green, black, oolong, lapsang souchong, caffeinated, decaffeinated, fruity, herbal, flowery. I try whatever I can get my hands on.

Quote from: Edge on April 20, 2014, 11:09:47 AM
Most "Loki" fans I meet now are just fans of his attractiveness which kind of pisses me off.

Yeah, that is probably very true, and there is probably a huge spike of people recognizing him as their deity after the films came out i'm sure.

Quote from: Elijah on April 20, 2014, 01:37:38 PM
Yeah, that is probably very true, and there is probably a huge spike of people recognizing him as their deity after the films came out i'm sure.

Oh definitely. I have met people who like Loki the Norse god as well though simply because he is usually depicted as a pretty boy.

I sew. I try to anyway. In my defence, the clothing I want to wear is either expensive or doesn't exist yet.

Quote from: MacG on April 19, 2014, 11:59:36 PM
I love miniature things. The tinier and more in proportion, the better.

That's awesome, me too, especially if they are functional as well. I was once given a mini piano keychain that played 5 different keys and it BLEW MY MIND.

I also love animals (seriously, all of them.), cooking, and musicals.

I also use my hands sometimes when I talk, which is either feminine or Italian.

Polo! I was going to add "with moving parts" but thought I was getting too specific with my craze haha!
That tiny piano keychain sounds amazing. I have a tiny harmonica that plays about 8 notes. I'm completely charmed! As a kid (who am I kidding-it's still true) I preferred my matchbox cars with doors and hoods that would open.

I'm going to admit I didn't even read the OP's original message, but I have to say I think binary messages of what gender should be and living up to those expectations, as opposed to just focusing on being yourself and being aesthetically happy within who you are, really hurts ourselves on how we perceive ourselves as human beings. I never sat down and thought about what might be "feminine" and what might be "masculine" for me in terms of it be an anomaly in my identity. However, I know there are so many people who post on here who have. On my stay here, I'm seen myriads of threads involved around the idea of not being "masculine enough". :x

Quote from: supremecatoverlord on April 22, 2014, 03:22:06 PM
I'm going to admit I didn't even read the OP's original message, but I have to say I think binary messages of what gender should be and living up to those expectations, as opposed to just focusing on being yourself and being aesthetically happy within who you are, really hurts ourselves on how we perceive ourselves as human beings. I never sat down and thought about what might be "feminine" and what might be "masculine" for me in terms of it be an anomaly in my identity. However, I know there are so many people who post on here who have. On my stay here, I'm seen myriads of threads involved around the idea of not being "masculine enough". :x

which was exactly the point of this thread.  We all know what society generally considers masculine and feminine, and as trans people are probably often in situations where we are analyzing (if only subconsciously) theses behaviors in ourselves.  Some reject things they like just because they want to be more masculine or "manly" whatever that is. This thread is for people to appreciate themselves for being themselves despite what society deems masculine or feminine. 

To be honest I had to sit back and think about mine.  Its not something that I ever really put thought into on my own.  It was definitely inspired by all of those threads that you mentioned about masculinity, and masculine attributes we possess/wish we possessed.  I've always been pretty content just being myself, and f-ck the rest.  Myself just happens to be male-bodied.... and my body didn't happen to come out just exactly that way. 

[aaaaaand way to be a douche.  At least read the OP before you make judgements or put in your own two cents.  Otherwise you're just blindly spewing bull->-bleeped-<- all over the place.]

Quote from: Edge on April 20, 2014, 11:09:47 AM
Most pagans I know are male, but that may be because most pagans I know are Asatru.

Not sure if this counts, but I'm a huge Loki fan who seems to be more popular with women. That said, I've been a fan of Loki (Norse mythology) ever since I was a kid because he reminds me of myself and I'm a fan of the Marvel Loki for similar reasons (although I see them as two separate characters). Most "Loki" fans I meet now are just fans of his attractiveness which kind of pisses me off.

I also think Loki is pretty cool, he is probably one of the most queer as'es in the mythology, even when in some of the quotes I find him alittle annoying like "lokisralla*(not sure how to spell it)"
---
unmanly things i love...

*to dance and swing my but and hair around
* to dress up as pretty much anything
* to wear make up or nailpolish or/and tight pants
* to have a earing collection of all kind of wierd earings

I have an internal desire to wear a pink sweatsuit, put on a headband, and flop and prance around to 80's music, though I haven't done this already.

I adore kittens.

I hate spiders.  I am terrified of them.

I don't understand American football, and find it boring for the most part.

I have no interest in cars at all.  In fact, I hate driving.

I don't like scary things.

On rare occasions when I am in love, I like to do interpretive dance.

I enjoy talking baby talk to my baby nephew and in the past, kittens that I've had and making big googly eyes  at them.

Quote from: MacG on April 22, 2014, 02:28:36 PM
Polo! I was going to add "with moving parts" but thought I was getting too specific with my craze haha!
That tiny piano keychain sounds amazing. I have a tiny harmonica that plays about 8 notes. I'm completely charmed! As a kid (who am I kidding-it's still true) I preferred my matchbox cars with doors and hoods that would open.

Hahaha so it's not just me! I loved those and transformers when I was a kid.

Quote from: GnomeKid on April 22, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
which was exactly the point of this thread.  We all know what society generally considers masculine and feminine, and as trans people are probably often in situations where we are analyzing (if only subconsciously) theses behaviors in ourselves.  Some reject things they like just because they want to be more masculine or "manly" whatever that is. This thread is for people to appreciate themselves for being themselves despite what society deems masculine or feminine. 

To be honest I had to sit back and think about mine.  Its not something that I ever really put thought into on my own.  It was definitely inspired by all of those threads that you mentioned about masculinity, and masculine attributes we possess/wish we possessed.  I've always been pretty content just being myself, and f-ck the rest.  Myself just happens to be male-bodied.... and my body didn't happen to come out just exactly that way. 

[aaaaaand way to be a douche.  At least read the OP before you make judgements or put in your own two cents.  Otherwise you're just blindly spewing bull->-bleeped-<- all over the place.]

I would've probably responded the same way had I read your original post, because I did. My main problem lies within in the title as it almost seems to insinuate being more feminine should be seen as something typically undesirable and triggering. I honestly wish more people were less concerned and/or able to weed out what's feminine or masculine. I'm a grounded human being who happened to transition so I could be aesthetically happy with myself, but not because I was trying to fit into a role. It was entirely for me. There's a lot of people I've seen on here who aren't that way, who are really ambivalent in transition, and actually think these things should factor into whether they're a man or not. If it didn't happen and people weren't so callow, I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow or two. But it does...actually, all of the time on here, which is part of the reason I rarely post here anymore, honestly.

I think it's interesting to think about. And I don't think the title of this post indicates negativity.  I've never been one to corner myself into a gender box. But starting the medical part oft transition has stirred up more thoughts about what I think about myself.
I think it's fantastic for anybody to have "unmanly" traits, and particularly great for ftm people to be able to freely discuss.

Quote from: MacG on April 22, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
I think it's interesting to think about. And I don't think the title of this post indicates negativity.  I've never been one to corner myself into a gender box. But starting the medical part oft transition has stirred up more thoughts about what I think about myself.
I think it's fantastic for anybody to have "unmanly" traits, and particularly great for ftm people to be able to freely discuss.

But why do traits have to be "manly" or "unmanly", other than a habitual semi-archaic social construct? I'm assuming you haven't seen the posts on here from people who really get tangled up in this stuff and think they can't transition because people tell them that they're not "man enough". There's a point behind what I'm saying. I get the OP wasn't meaning to be offensive. It's great to like things about yourself, but as long as you have a grounded sense of identity, why do you have to sort all of your traits into gender stereotypes? Just be you.

I don't think anyone here has said anything (at least not that I've read in this thread) about any of these traits affecting whether or not we transition either way, so I'm not sure where you got that. Neither has anyone said anything about being anyone other than ourselves (again, at least not that I've read in this thread). Personally, I interpreted the quotation marks around "unmanly" to show that these traits aren't actually unmanly.
The truth is that, no matter how much some of us want these categories to be gone, there is a lot of social pressure to fit into them and we're as affected by social pressure as anyone else. For example, I have some internalized homophobia because people keep perpetuating a stereotype about queer men that I don't want to be. I know it's ridiculous and not true, but it still affects me. It helps to be reminded that it's ok to be who we are.
I hope I'm coherent. I should probably get some sleep.

I took the quotation marks in the title to mean something like "traditionally defined as unmanly."
I certainly don't think of myself as an assortment of man things and woman things or whatever.
But there are things I am interested in that society *does* assign to be, well, unmanly. I don't agree things should be divvied up into two. I don't even think gender should be divvied up.  I don't think anything should be considered the domain of one gender over another. I think it's a big fuzzy ball, not an either/or.
And I am definitely not a subscriber to the idea of "man enough." Or trans enough. Or anything enough.

I suppose mine would be, hmm...

I like to sew, a lot. I make a lot of my own clothes, and I like to design clothes (When I think about it, a lot of the top clothing designers in the world are men, not sure if that counts )
I love musicals, and I'm a sucker for Disney songs.
When I am in a good mood and a song pops up in my head, I will randomly start singing it without really noticing myself.
I love music in general, listening, playing the Ukulele or singing.
I think I read somewhere above, talking to old lady's. I do that a lot myself. Actually, a few of my friends are in their 50's and we sometimes get together over coffee and talk.
I have a sweet tooth.
Most people that describe me ether use the word cute or adorable because of how I talk, and such.
I'm a super dork, and a huge comic and a manga nerd.
And oh! A huge Loki fan... It has actually begun to scare me how much of a fan I have become xD
I will jump up and down and get excited, mostly when I see dogs x3

Quote from: MacG on April 23, 2014, 12:18:26 AM
I took the quotation marks in the title to mean something like "traditionally defined as unmanly."
I certainly don't think of myself as an assortment of man things and woman things or whatever.
But there are things I am interested in that society *does* assign to be, well, unmanly. I don't agree things should be divvied up into two. I don't even think gender should be divvied up.  I don't think anything should be considered the domain of one gender over another. I think it's a big fuzzy ball, not an either/or.
And I am definitely not a subscriber to the idea of "man enough." Or trans enough. Or anything enough.

The whole point I was making is that there have been people literally too wrapped up in what society might think of them to the degree of asking us to define whether they are trans* or not, giving a list of characteristic traits. I'm aware that these things exist, but I'm also aware they don't matter, especially in terms of individual happiness.

Quote from: supremecatoverlord on April 23, 2014, 06:19:20 AM
The whole point I was making is that there have been people literally too wrapped up in what society might think of them to the degree of asking us to define whether they are trans* or not, giving a list of characteristic traits. I'm aware that these things exist, but I'm also aware they don't matter, especially in terms of individual happiness.

Which is exactly what this entire thread has been saying...

Quote from: Edge on April 23, 2014, 07:35:57 AM
Which is exactly what this entire thread has been saying...

By way of enforcing gender based association and stereotypes, not really. I'm honestly just playing Devil's Advocate by this point and nothing more to be honest. It's good that everyone who has posted here thus far sees these traits as integral to who they are, but also trivial to their transition, but yet again, I've seen plenty of people post on this forum who wouldn't...and that in itself is unfortunate.