It is. Especially when we get threads of people asking if they're really trans because they're worried about arbitrary traits and they get told they're probably non-binary or when threads turn into pissing contests with a couple guys insisting that they never did anything remotely considered feminine ever. Personally, I hate the either/or thing, but I usually encounter that everywhere.

I kind of had a hard time replying to this thread because I feel a lot like supremecatoverlord. I can't really classify parts of myself as masculine or feminine, although I am sure others would. I mean, for example, I am quiet and sometimes timid. That's definitely not considered manly, but would it be considered feminine when you consider the vast number of boys and men who are shy, perhaps intellectually inclined rather than physically inclined, etc?

edit: though the fact that some behaviours are unclassifiable wasn't my point...it was a tangent lol. I'm just saying even if I wanted to it's not all cut and dry. I don't really think too much about it because I'd drive myself nuts, I just accept all parts of myself entirely.

Lucky. Ever since I came out as trans, I've consistently had people laser focus on my "effeminate" traits and use that as an excuse to treat me either as if I'm "really a woman" and/or as if I'm not masculine. It's gotten the point where I can't ignore it no matter how much I try.

Quote from: supremecatoverlord on April 23, 2014, 07:47:16 AM
By way of enforcing gender based association and stereotypes, not really. I'm honestly just playing Devil's Advocate by this point and nothing more to be honest. It's good that everyone who has posted here thus far sees these traits as integral to who they are, but also trivial to their transition, but yet again, I've seen plenty of people post on this forum who wouldn't...and that in itself is unfortunate.

I totally understand and appreciate your point.  I, myself, have been known to play devil's advocate from time to time.  My point was not to reinforce gender stereotypes which is why it is labeled "'Umanly' traits" as opposed to feminine traits.  I agree that gendering traits is bull->-bleeped-<-, but its silly to say that you don't know what society considers as a masculine and feminine traits.  Not that we need to reinforce those societal notions, but this thread does not stand alone.  It was in response to other threads touting the superiority of traits society assumes are masculine.  Here is a thread just attempting to get people to appreciate all parts of themselves - even those not considered masculine from the stereotypical standpoint of society - something we're all members of whether we like it or not. 

In fact, the point that you've seen many people in this forum who wouldn't see these traits as being acceptable in themselves even brings further purpose to this thread.  Here are a bunch of guys saying that they can accept themselves.  Maybe others will follow suit?

Anywho... I'm pretty much done arguing this point.  Frankly, I' didn't start this thread to start an argument about the existence, or evil, of gender stereotypes, and I don't have time to worry about someone online (or offline really..) being upset over the existence of gender stereotypes.  They're out there.  You don't have to like them.  Frankly, I don't even like them, but they're there.

Quote from: birkin on April 23, 2014, 12:01:21 PM
I kind of had a hard time replying to this thread because I feel a lot like supremecatoverlord. I can't really classify parts of myself as masculine or feminine, although I am sure others would. I mean, for example, I am quiet and sometimes timid. That's definitely not considered manly, but would it be considered feminine when you consider the vast number of boys and men who are shy, perhaps intellectually inclined rather than physically inclined, etc?

edit: though the fact that some behaviours are unclassifiable wasn't my point...it was a tangent lol. I'm just saying even if I wanted to it's not all cut and dry. I don't really think too much about it because I'd drive myself nuts, I just accept all parts of myself entirely.

Yea, I agree.  Many traits are unclassifiable.  As time goes by, hopefully more will become  so. 

I think you're strategy is best really.  Just accept yourself as you are. 

I love musicals and disney songs. I will be rollin in my truck blasting "Let it go" LOL Not very manly.

Dev

- I'm a shy, easy-going person.  Not exactly "tough" or "dominant".
- I like listening to female artist such as Aaliyah, Amy Winehouse, Iggy Azalea, etc.
- I don't kill bugs.  I usually catch them and take them outside.
- I sleep with a night light.
- I love animals.  All animals.
- I have a sort attention span when it comes ti watching American football on ESPN.
- I know how to knit.
- I love musicals!

Quote from: GnomeKid on April 23, 2014, 05:14:04 PM

In fact, the point that you've seen many people in this forum who wouldn't see these traits as being acceptable in themselves even brings further purpose to this thread.  Here are a bunch of guys saying that they can accept themselves.  Maybe others will follow suit?

I probably would have transitioned earlier in life if I had been able to let go of the idea that you have to be a certain way to be a man. I have been letting go of that and this thread definitely helped me. Like others, I saw the "unmanly" in quotes and did not take it as reinforcing gender stereotypes.

I love crafts and working with my hands, although it encompasses anything from crotchet and sewing to carpentry and working on cars. I've gotten some strange looks and a few sexist comments at work when I borrow some yarn and a crotchet hook from a coworker because I'm bored. It doesn't help she's obsessed with rainbow stuff. 'You knit???' said in a tone of voice that means 'you're a dude, are you THAT gay?!' Yes. I guess I am if that's how you think.

Kittens make me cry with joy. Just the sheer cuteness will make tears roll down my cheeks. Puppies are gross. Give me an adult dog any day.

What does knitting have to do with being gay?

It's sexism, Edge. Clearly MEN don't make rainbow scarves. That's what women do when they get together and gossip and watch Days of Our Lives. Only those weird gays do female stuff because they're confused. Women fixing cars? WTF? Men baking muffins? WTH?

my interests are the only non manly things I like about myself I like rom coms, art, and musical theater. Which aren't generally deemed manly interests. I'm also into fashion, mens fashion, but still not super manly.

Quote from: randomroads on April 26, 2014, 10:10:09 PM
It's sexism, Edge. Clearly MEN don't make rainbow scarves. That's what women do when they get together and gossip and watch Days of Our Lives. Only those weird gays do female stuff because they're confused. Women fixing cars? WTF? Men baking muffins? WTH?

Ha! Wonder what they'd make of the old song, "Do you know the muffin man". Unless "lives on Drury Lane" was a bizarre euphemism, the lyrics say nothing to imply his occupation is unusual.

I shave under my arms cause I hate armpit hair, even on cis guys lol and I don't like the uni brow thing, so I usually go and have that taken care of

Quote from: Edge on April 20, 2014, 09:25:23 AM
That's unmanly?

Oh yeah. I also play with my hair when I'm nervous aka most of the time. I hate that though.

Stereotypically, sure. I mean, if we cast aside stereotypes or general expectations, nothing is manly or unmanly, of course.

I often do crafting and things. im also an artist.

I also get giddy over fictional characters. usually male.

I'm not  a gay man, i just find characters that kind of reflect the sort of man i would like to be someday XD

i wear pink pajama bottoms with bunnies on them. I like cute sh*t really. if you show me pictures of puppies and hamsters and pink things i will go dawww audibly.

do i think these things make me less of a man, pff no, at this point im pretty comfortable with who i am some pink sh*t and girly things aren't gonna change that i like men or i am actually girl, screw that.