Another list of questions, I'm afraid.  Sorry!

1 - Is the general consensus still that people with dark beard hair and light skin should go laser first, then finish off with electrolysis?

2 - DIY jobs.  Bad idea, or have some home lasers reached the point where they work well (with patience and effort)?  And if home lasers are pretty decent these days, any product recommendations?  Obvious scams to avoid?

3 - Cost.  Can't find prices anywhere, which I guess is understandable as each case is different.  But generally, what would laser removal cost?  Far cheaper than 100% electrolysis?

4 - Lasers...permanent removal, or does the hair come back?  The older materials I read on this seem to be conflicting.

5 - Once the beard is removed and you're without makeup, is it still possible to pass as a guy if needed?  Does a face with a removed beard look like a guy who has had a close shave, or does it look feminine?

6 - Any regrets in beard removal?  I'm guessing I won't have any, because shaving is a pain and I've never been a beardy type person.  I won't cry too many tears over never shaving again.

7 - When to do it: once HRT has started, or wait a while until some feminization has occurred?

Thanks in advance!

Personally, I'm going the full electrolysis route as my skin tone is really light and most of my facial hair is reddish with quite a bit of gray too.  I'm not sure that, for me, laser would be a good choice.

I've read and heard that laser isn't guaranteed permanent, another reason I decided against it but many people do go this route with a lot of success so I think it's more of a ymmv kind of thing. 

I would think laser would be cheaper than electrolysis.....  If removal ends up being permanent.  Again that's just my personal opinion since I haven't tried laser or checked rates for it.

As far as when to start, at least for me I would say today....yesterday if possible!  It's pretty slow going for me since each hair has to be zapped and removed individually...  I know I'm way beyond ready to be done with this phase of transition!

Ok, the easy answer is to do this as soon as possible, if you are pre HRT, do it now. Forget the DIY kits, they are designed mainly for cis women. We have different skin and hair and they are, simply put, rubbish. Our hairs are buried a lot deeper and we need the relevant more powerful without burning treatment for this reason.  You need to seek the advice of a practitioner that knows male skin and hair and the most effective way to get rid of your beard. Confidence wise, you will not believe how much it helps to 'pass' (as long as you have worked all the other bits out too). Beard removal is high up on the list to get done. It does not matter how much FFS, HRT or GRS, boobs you have had done, if you have a face full of hair, you are going to look like a man with makeup or a woman with a blue face and too much make up and alarm bells will start to ring.

It is going to cost a lot.

Passing as a guy can be done. As you probably know, just because you removed your facial hair does not make you a woman without all the other traits to go with it. You will just look like a clean shaven man pre HRT if that is what you intend to pass as.

For dark hair and light skin, laser first, then electro to tidy up all the light hairs.

Check out the hair growth cycle to see why some hairs come back after a while. It takes a long time to treat the whole face. I have been told by my practitioner that if you put a fingertip on your face, hiding under it is something like 500 odd hair folicles. Very dense. Eventually it all gets zapped.

If you intend to do DIY, buy one of the professional machines for the job. Be prepared to pay a lot of money though. If the DIY things like Tria and No No did the job, the professionals would cut their overheads instead of spending tens of thousands on the machines that actually work.

Unless you like the biblical, bearded lady or the George Michael look, what is the point in a beard ? I only buy a rasor to shave below the neck now and HRT will soon take care of that. No regrets here.

Hope that helps.

Nikki

Thanks for creating a new thread on this.  I am not 100% on transitioning, but I made a list of dual purpose goals/things I can start now and live with if I decide to stay my disgusting guy self. It sounds like beard and voice are two long processes, so that is where I am starting.  I hope people provide a lot of input because I want to make the best choices as I am sure you do as well.  I have my first electrolysis appt next tues, but have just been told to do laser first and then electrolysis by a fellow TG.  I want best results even if it costs more and was told that electrolysis provides a better result with regard to a smoother skin appearance because the hair follicle is completely destroyed.  It sounds reasonable, but could just be bs.  I don't want to waste money and time if it has the same results as laser.  Does anyone know?

1 - Is the general consensus still that people with dark beard hair and light skin should go laser first, then finish off with electrolysis?
That's the general consensus, but it varies for every person.

2 - DIY jobs. 
I'm lazy so I wouldn't do this myself, also I'd be scared I'd end up scarring myself or worse.

3 - Cost.
100% laser will be quicker and cheaper. I tried it but my beard is too light so electrolysis it is!

4 - Lasers...permanent removal, or does the hair come back?
Once the follicle is dead it won't go zombie on you, but if the follicle is in sleep mode during treatment it won't be zapped so that probably makes it seem like hair is coming back even after treatment.

5 - Once the beard is removed and you're without makeup, is it still possible to pass as a guy if needed?  Does a face with a removed beard look like a guy who has had a close shave, or does it look feminine?
There won't be any tell tale shadow but a lot of it will depend on your other features, hair, clothes, etc. I'm personally looking forward to wearing less make up regardless.

6 - Any regrets in beard removal?  I'm guessing I won't have any, because shaving is a pain...
If it's pain you're looking to avoid then wait until you try electrolysis or laser!! But no, no regret from me!

7 - When to do it: once HRT has started, or wait a while until some feminization has occurred?
Start ASAP! Either process will take months, electrolysis even longer, best to get a good head start!

I did laser first, intending to finish up with electro... but didn't need to. Laser took care of all but half a dozen hairs, and those I just pluck, like a cis woman (seriously, my mom has more facial hairs than I do, now).

Laser *is* permanent for the hair follicles that it kills, but the reason it's not guaranteed permanent except as "hair reduction" is that it does NOT kill every single one of the hair follicles the way electro will. However, it's vastly cheaper and faster - I paid $1000 and was done in six months, and I hear prices of like 1/5th that from some people now - and if you're really lucky you won't need anything else. Even if you do, better to have 95% of it taken care of fast and cheap, right?

The other thing to keep in mind is that HRT makes skin thinner and more translucent, which unfortunately means beard shadow will show through a lot more. I had a *terrible* time with having a shadow even when my face was shaved so close it felt perfectly baby smooth; the hairs UNDER the skin were still showing through. I had to cake on foundation until the laser started really making a dent.

I'll chip in!

1. That is the consensus.  I did but was probably marginal in terms of suitability.

2. No DIY - afraid of stuffing it up.  Other places, yeah.  Face? No. Remember though a poor operator can damage you too.

3. Cost?  Laser is cheaper.  I have spent a large amount on electro (not a fortune but...).  I am older and the hair a lot more mature.

4. Not sure about effectiveness of laser.  It seems to work really well for some and fail with others.  As I am older, much of my beard was grey, white, red and brown so Laser wasn't going to work well anyway.

5. Depends!  Helpful, I know! 

6. No regrets ever!  I did spend many hours in pain thinking that I must really want this.  The answer was always YES!  Hated having to shave and LOVE not having to do a thing.  Oh, my skin care routine takes much longer so I haven't saved any time in the morning at all!!

7.  Start yesterday.  There is no reason to delay starting.  This is one of the really big transitioning things you do for yourself.

Thank you all so much for those detailed replies!  Extremely helpful.

Time to start looking for a laser clinic to get the beard gone.  An early Christmas present to myself.

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 24, 2014, 05:50:54 PM
1 - Is the general consensus still that people with dark beard hair and light skin should go laser first, then finish off with electrolysis?
That's the general consensus, but it varies for every person.

2 - DIY jobs. 
I'm lazy so I wouldn't do this myself, also I'd be scared I'd end up scarring myself or worse.

3 - Cost.
100% laser will be quicker and cheaper. I tried it but my beard is too light so electrolysis it is!

4 - Lasers...permanent removal, or does the hair come back?
Once the follicle is dead it won't go zombie on you, but if the follicle is in sleep mode during treatment it won't be zapped so that probably makes it seem like hair is coming back even after treatment.

5 - Once the beard is removed and you're without makeup, is it still possible to pass as a guy if needed?  Does a face with a removed beard look like a guy who has had a close shave, or does it look feminine?
There won't be any tell tale shadow but a lot of it will depend on your other features, hair, clothes, etc. I'm personally looking forward to wearing less make up regardless.

6 - Any regrets in beard removal?  I'm guessing I won't have any, because shaving is a pain...
If it's pain you're looking to avoid then wait until you try electrolysis or laser!! But no, no regret from me!

7 - When to do it: once HRT has started, or wait a while until some feminization has occurred?
Start ASAP! Either process will take months, electrolysis even longer, best to get a good head start!

Lazy answer but agree with Grace on all points but wish to add that:

- Results depend on the skill of the electrologist
- Having tried thermolysis, blend and galvanic, only galvanic has produced permanent hair removal
- IPL laser works on dark hair and light skin.  Start with this but plan on finishing with galvanic.  The side benefit is laser will raise your pain threshold and prepare you for the 'discomfort' of galvanic
- There are many urban myths ....

Aisla

Quote from: __________ on April 24, 2014, 07:12:18 PM
Thank you all so much for those detailed replies!  Extremely helpful.

Time to start looking for a laser clinic to get the beard gone.  An early Christmas present to myself.

If you are in Sydney, then I am sure that either Grace and I can give you a great recommendation.  PM either of us.

Aisla

Quote from: __________ on April 24, 2014, 11:53:15 AM
Another list of questions, I'm afraid.  Sorry!

1 - Is the general consensus still that people with dark beard hair and light skin should go laser first, then finish off with electrolysis?

2 - DIY jobs.  Bad idea, or have some home lasers reached the point where they work well (with patience and effort)?  And if home lasers are pretty decent these days, any product recommendations?  Obvious scams to avoid?

3 - Cost.  Can't find prices anywhere, which I guess is understandable as each case is different.  But generally, what would laser removal cost?  Far cheaper than 100% electrolysis?

4 - Lasers...permanent removal, or does the hair come back?  The older materials I read on this seem to be conflicting.

5 - Once the beard is removed and you're without makeup, is it still possible to pass as a guy if needed?  Does a face with a removed beard look like a guy who has had a close shave, or does it look feminine?

6 - Any regrets in beard removal?  I'm guessing I won't have any, because shaving is a pain and I've never been a beardy type person.  I won't cry too many tears over never shaving again.

7 - When to do it: once HRT has started, or wait a while until some feminization has occurred?

Thanks in advance!

1.  Yeah, it's best to start with laser with that skin and hair type.  You'll be saving lots of money and getting good results.

2. I'm sure they work to an extent, but if you want permanent removal or really good results, just go with laser or electrolysis.  I've look into those products and I'm not impressed.  Just my take.  I know other people will disagree, but I think the investment in laser is much better and more worth it.

3.  Laser is cheaper from what I've heard, but price really varies by location, practice you use, and the method.  There is no way of estimating it.  I pay 180 dollars every month.

4.  I hear different things.  My tech told me that she can guarantee a 95 percent permanent reduction and removal.  The rest should be taken care of with yearly touchups.

5.  That depends on your face.  I find passing as a normal guy very hard, but yet still don't feel I pass as a girl.  I'm like this andro in between person, and would warn you that most people go through this phase at some point. 

6.  No, though I'm still in the middle of the process.  I only regret the loss or money.

7.  I would get this done asap.  I takes time and is a process.  Once you get to the stage where you pass, it would be nice if you didn't have the beard shadow to deal with.  The earlier you start, the less you will have to deal with it.

All of the following are just my opinion.  One thing I will answer that you didn't ask is the following.   Yes, laser hurts like a bitch and you will cry and start whining in a high pitch voice if you are like me, lol. 

5 - Once the beard is removed and you're without makeup, is it still possible to pass as a guy if needed?  Does a face with a removed beard look like a guy who has had a close shave, or does it look feminine?

OK - more effort this time.

-  You will look younger.
-  If on low or normal dose hrt your skin will look better
-   Most people do not look closely.  Unless you provide other gender clues eg feminised brows, an androgynous or feminine hair style or clothing then most people will conclude that you are well rested, have had a vacation or have had some work done
-   Change will be most visible to those who see you infrequently, others will not notice any change
-   The hrt will continue to soften your facial characteristics so over time you will appear more andro but using male cues will not usually cause you to be gendered female but ymmv.

Aisla

Regarding the DIY thing...

I've been using a home laser treatment since late October. It's clearing my body really nicely, and I was pretty hairy.

On my face it's taking more time, but I'm still quite happy with the progress. I'm planning on another couple of years before I go full time, so I'll take things as far as I can with the home kit and then do eletrolysis on the white hairs. I do a treatment every 14-16 days, shedding begins about week after each, and once it stops I zap it again.

This first picture is back before I started anything



This is after 2 months of home laser:



And this is last week:



I guess it depends how much time you have. Professional is faster, but I'm still willing to wait on this.

1. I've got dark beard, light skin, every session removes about 30% of my hairs, as such it follows the law of diminishing returns but the nice thing is that they space it apart to catch each set of hairs during the growth cycle so ,, it's pretty effective, expect 6-10 sessions for 95% plus removal.

2. Unless you buy a $10.000 machine probably not going to work well, with the amount of pain and possible skin damage I would not do it myself or have anyone other than a medical professional doing it.

3. I pay $200 per session here in Canada, that's a pretty good price, I've seen prices up to $1200 per session but that's B.S.

4. Permanent for any hair that's in a growth state when it's sapped, laser boils the follicle, there's no coming back from that.

5. Even after the first session people will think you are a lot younger, but without other clues still male.

6. Laser on facial hurts pretty bad, not like kidney stones or herniated disk but probably a 7 out of 10, no regrets, co-workers envy me when I tell them I will never have to shave again and G.F. loves that there is no more stubble to sting.

7. ASAP

  I sought out laser first and foremost because the coarseness of my beard hair was wrecking my skin through constant irritation, ingrowns and sensitivity to shaving.  Laser will at the very least reduce the coarseness of the hairs but will usually permanently kill off the dark ones eventually.  Reducing the coarseness will substantially reduce the intensity required per-hair during electrolysis and reduce the amount of electrolysis needed so it makes sense to take laser as far as it will get you and then move on to electrolysis.

  In addition to the direct and dramatic improvement in the condition of my skin from the hair reduction, one side benefit from the laser is skin rejuvenation.  Laser is often used for skin renewal alone so you are getting a bonus from the hair treatment.  The difference in my skin is already like night and day compared to before.  It is also much more even and pleasant-looking in color tone.  Once I get through with the electrolysis and HRT continues to create change my skin is going to be smooth as a baby's bottom!

This was all very informative. Thank you.

Can someone answer:

Usually how much growth is required before starting laser treatment? Or just appear with a clean shave?

When the beard is gone, does vellus hairs (peach fuzz) grow in the area? (which would appear more natural)

How did you manage your side burns? Cutoff point? Shape?

Is the laser dangerous to dark moles or beauty marks?

Do they make you wear goggles?

Would an oral anesthetic like maximum strength anbesol applied to the skin help with some of the in-treatment pain?

Evelyn quick answers:

Usually how much growth is required before starting laser treatment? Or just appear with a clean shave?  I normally cease shaving 2 to 3 days prior to laser (same as Electro)

When the beard is gone, does vellus hairs (peach fuzz) grow in the area? (which would appear more natural).  I have not got to this stage but this is my understanding. New follicles rather than regrowth

How did you manage your side burns? Cutoff point? Shape?  Aiming to thin just below the top of the ear and taper.  Avoid the square cut.  The idea is to indicate that the hair is fine and not an established side burn

Is the laser dangerous to dark moles or beauty marks?  I have not had any problems but worth checking with your technician

Do they make you wear goggles? Yes

Would an oral anesthetic like maximum strength anbesol applied to the skin help with some of the in-treatment pain?
It could help, as would lygocaine gel or emla cream.  You may find that emla is not needed as the pain from ipl is not as bad as galvanic.  Its a little like feeling the snap of a rubber band on your skin

Aisla

I would advise against the home remedies, they just don't have the same power.  Go to a professional laser hair removal place and let them do it.  If you have dark hairs it will make a massive difference in such a short time.

After my first laser it took about 2 weeks then I noticed a massive difference.

Start NOW.  It takes time. One session every 4-6 weeks.  I started in October and have had 6 sessions so far. 

I've also had 5 hours of electrolysis for the remaining blondes and will need plenty more. 

Being facial hair free is fantastic

I was told by the laser tech that they prefer a clean shave. There is some vellus hair on my face, but I'm assuming it's *not* the original facial hairs, just the estrogen causing me to develop cis-pattern vellus hair. (Or it was there already. No real way to tell, since shaving off the male facial hair would remove it too.) I had no problems with beauty marks and did wear goggles.

And I left it up to the tech how to do the sideburns - she does treat cis women frequently, so she chose a pattern that she said resembled theirs, and I've been satisfied with it. I think she just sort of thinned out gradually below the hairline, but honestly, I didn't pay enough attention...

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 24, 2014, 11:49:12 PM
This was all very informative. Thank you.

Can someone answer:

Usually how much growth is required before starting laser treatment? Or just appear with a clean shave?

When the beard is gone, does vellus hairs (peach fuzz) grow in the area? (which would appear more natural)

How did you manage your side burns? Cutoff point? Shape?

Is the laser dangerous to dark moles or beauty marks?

Do they make you wear goggles?

Would an oral anesthetic like maximum strength anbesol applied to the skin help with some of the in-treatment pain?

My tech recommends me to come in clean shaven which works as I shave everyday.

I'm still only a few sessions in and don't really let the hair grow in at all.  I have noticed patches forming, but I'm obsessive about removing any facial hair.

They go up to my side burn area, but don't actually do that area.

Not sure.

Yes, I always have to wear the protective goggles where I go.

Probably.  I've never used it.  However, I probably should because I literally cry during my sessions and my tech actually rubbed my hand during one of the really bad sessions, lol.  It's not fun.