(Just in case)

My apologies for any misunderstanding, I've just edited this and another post...I hope it now makes more sense...

Kia Ora,

If science did find the source of the transgender 'condition' (say for example they found without a doubt the cause was congenital) and they also came up with a way to 'normalise' the foetus - I wonder how many transgender people (ie, members here who are cured *post transitioned* and in the process of being cured *transitioning*) would support the normalisation of the foetus process if they were given a vote on it–which for all intended purposes this would mean the eventual elimination of the transgender condition from the human species...

From a personal view point, out of compassion I would not want to wish this 'condition' on anybody and if there was a way to prevent it in the future I would be all for it...

Even though I consider my self 'cured' with no devastating after effects (no regrets -no wishing things would have been different)  I more often than not adhere to the old saying of "Prevention is better than cure !"

Well what are your thoughts on this hypothetical question of sorts.......................................

Would you support intervention of those yet to be born ? (I would think this would be the most common option-but I could be wrong)

Or would you prefer(like in our own case) to let nature take its course ? (science should not play god with the foetus)

*Sorry....When I used the term "cured" I was referring to when members here "real time" have fully transitioned or are in the process of transitioning,(I consider my self now "cured"=I've fully transitioned) and the hypothetical part is: would you as a transitioning or post transition person support  foetus intervention of those yet to be born?

(Foetus intervention I see more along the lines of a 'preventative' measure)...*


Metta Anatta

Kind of one of those questions that could never really be answered. Dysphoria is so crippling that it does not even let you consider taking a "cure" because we don't feel right and know a change is needed, so it is kind of tough to answer this. Makes one think though. I personally think once you are so far into your transition and comfortable with yourself then "no" I wouldn't need a cure because I would not think anything was wrong at that point. Maybe intervention pre transition could work, but who really knows. Then there is the line that once is crossed by manipulating something then moving on to the next. Where would it stop? Making everyone the same with no flaws? Who would decide where to stop altering the body and mind? What criteria would be used?  I think it would be the same as letting Pandora's evil stepsister out of the bottle.

No different than any other condition. I think many would do the cure. I'm not sure how the child would even know about it once they grew up then.

So I wouldn't have been miserable, but I wouldn't be me exactly either?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I wouldn't feel comfortable manipulating a process like that.  Personally, if I can ever adopt, I will encourage my child to be themselves, whatever it may be.  I don't think a kid she be pressured to do anything other than find themselves.  I wish my family had done that.  Sure, I was allowed to gender bending stuff like dress up as Ashley Olsen and renact scenes from their mystery show with my sister (yeah, I was a very weird little kid), but then I was pressured to play sports despite my objections.  And the older I got, the more pressured I was to be a certain way and forced into a more rigid gender role. I knew that it was wrong for me to be me at a certain point.  That's something no child should ever have to feel. 

Therefore, I'm very much about kids being able to find who they are with as little influence as possible.  I think there is no greater way to manipulate your childs destiny and personality than altering their genetics.  For this reason, I would want no part in something like this.  It's no better than pushing your kids into one gender role or shaping them through influence them at an early age.  Hell, you aren't even giving them a chance to find themselves in any way.  That's like a crime to me.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 24, 2014, 06:46:58 PM
Kind of one of those questions that could never really be answered. Dysphoria is so crippling that it does not even let you consider taking a "cure" because we don't feel right and know a change is needed, so it is kind of tough to answer this. Makes one think though. I personally think once you are so far into your transition and comfortable with yourself then "no" I wouldn't need a cure because I would not think anything was wrong at that point. Maybe intervention pre transition could work, but who really knows. Then there is the line that once is crossed by manipulating something then moving on to the next. Where would it stop? Making everyone the same with no flaws? Who would decide where to stop altering the body and mind? What criteria would be used?  I think it would be the same as letting Pandora's evil stepsister out of the bottle.

Kia Ora Jessica + others,

Sorry....When I used the term "cured" I was referring to when members here "real time" have fully transitioned or are in the process of transitioning,(I consider my self now "cured"=I've fully transitioned) and the hypothetical part is: would you as a transitioning or post transition person support  foetus intervention of those yet to be born?

(Foetus intervention I see more along the lines of a 'preventative' measure)...

Metta Anatta

For a fetus, absolutely. As you said, for me it's about compassion - I wouldn't want my child to go through the suffering of this. Being in the wrong body. No matter how much society accepts it, dysphoria will always remain and it's a tough thing.

But if they found a cure for adults...I don't know. It's too late for me to reverse it now.

A great question.  Sort of 'preselecting hair and eye colour'.  Wow tempting though it is, I am just not that sure.  Particularly now that society is changing, more accepting and there is more support and more treatment and lifestyle options available.   I suspect that removing this 'defect' is more likely to damage rather than to  enrich society.  Frankly I now feel blessed to be tg (although I haven't always felt this way).  I think that being 'two spirited' is a very rich way of being but know that many would prefer not to have been dealt this card.

Aisla

I don't play God and I wouldn't support this kind of genetic engineering. My guess is that the solution would be to abort the baby and I don't support that option either. It is bad enough people already abort their babies because of the birth sex.

People raise children with conditions much crappier than being trans. For all I know parents might be better informed and more trans people could be treated earlier in life if they knew their kid had the "trans" gene, but I somehow doubt that.

This kind of eugenics has resulted in forced sterilizations, racial genocide, forced abortions and attempts to eliminate the blind, deaf, homosexuals and anything else science has decided is unfit for the society. Don't take this topic lightly.

Well, I would rather be a trans woman than a cis man, and I would rather be a cis woman than a trans woman...so if "cured" meant being able to switch the genetic sex of the child to match the identified gender (rather than the other way around) then sign me up!

Quote from: TiffanyT on April 24, 2014, 07:33:37 PM
I don't play God and I wouldn't support this kind of genetic engineering. My guess is that the solution would be to abort the baby and I don't support that option either. It is bad enough people already abort their babies because of the birth sex.

People raise children with conditions much crappier than being trans. For all I know parents might be better informed and more trans people could be treated earlier in life if they knew their kid had the "trans" gene, but I somehow doubt that.

This kind of eugenics has resulted in forced sterilizations, racial genocide, forced abortions and attempts to eliminate the blind, deaf, homosexuals and anything else science has decided is unfit for the society. Don't take this topic lightly.

Tiffany

Agree. I apologise if my remarks were seen to be light hearted.   Treading down the slippery path of eugenics is not a course I would recommend for non life threatening disorders.

Aisla

Kia Ora,

I gather some here have a very vivid imagination and strong opinions, but this purely hypothetical question is not meant to be about aborting foetuses nor eugenics ...This was not the intention of the thread...so....

Imagine if scientists have found a way to safely 'prevent' the potential physical and mental 'suffering' of the new born child in later years (without having to abort the foetus)...

I would not wish what I've been through on others, so if scientists did find a 'safe' way I would support it whole heartedly....



Metta Anatta

But potential mental and physical struggles are part of which make us human and shape us. NO I would not want that part of us to end.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 24, 2014, 08:18:29 PM
But potential mental and physical struggles are part of which make us human and shape us. NO I would not want that part of us to end.

Kia Ora Jessica,

What about the high suicide and depression rate ?

Metta Anatta

Quote from: Anatta on April 24, 2014, 08:21:02 PM
What about the high suicide rate ?

Then again, how many trans people commit suicide because they don't seek professional help in dealing with their issue's? How many had other underlying issue's that combined with being trans? How many had undiagnosed or untreated mental illness? Trans does not = suicide. It may add to other issue's, but once I found professional help I accepted myself, made a plan and am living successfully. Had I not sought out counseling maybe I would have been a statistic.

Quote from: Anatta on April 24, 2014, 08:21:02 PM
Kia Ora Jessica,

What about the high suicide and depression rate ?

Metta Anatta

I see your point, but I still wouldn't change my answer.  Despite my many issues that are well documented here, I'm glad to be myself and like that I've found my own way.  If I was just something that was programmed at birth, I don't know.  I guess we are all programmed at birth in certain way, but the interference goes beyond natural genetics. It takes away our discovery and individuality in some way. I've gone through a lot of pain in my life and there are things I wish I never had to go through, but I'm the unique me that could have only existed under these conditions.  I want the children of the future to be their own unique them.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 24, 2014, 08:28:28 PM
Then again, how many trans people commit suicide because they don't seek professional help in dealing with their issue's? How many had other underlying issue's that combined with being trans? How many had undiagnosed or untreated mental illness? Trans does not = suicide. It may add to other issue's, but once I found professional help I accepted myself, made a plan and am living successfully. Had I not sought out counseling maybe I would have been a statistic.

Kia Ora Jessica,

I agree that seeking the right kind of help is the most important step, and can save many lives...

But regarding the hypothetical question, if scientists could prevent the kind of suffering that comes from being born transgender, surely one would not wish others to go through this kind of suffering if there was a safe way to 'prevent' it....

Depression due to one's condition is such a devastating thing for many trans-people...

Like your self, I too consider myself to be one of the lucky ones who got the right help...

Metta Anatta

Kia Ora

One person's challenge, is another person's suffering.  Both can offer a path to growth, discovery and enlightenment.   Removing nuance and moving to standardisation is not necessarily a good thing. I think that the focus should be on eradicating life threatening disorders.

Aisla

Quote from: TiffanyT on April 24, 2014, 07:33:37 PM
I don't play God and I wouldn't support this kind of genetic engineering. My guess is that the solution would be to abort the baby and I don't support that option either. It is bad enough people already abort their babies because of the birth sex.

People raise children with conditions much crappier than being trans. For all I know parents might be better informed and more trans people could be treated earlier in life if they knew their kid had the "trans" gene, but I somehow doubt that.

I the end I totally agree with Tiffany. I think it would set a bad precedent and other conditions would be tampered with. Humankind just does not know when to stop. Being trans is just part of life, good or bad. It may be terrible, but it makes us, well, us.

No way would I ever want to be 'cured' I don't have a disease. If i was born cis male then I wouldn't be me and I wouldn't have gone through the worst years of my young life to become more understanding and thoughtful of others.  The 'pain' 'suffering' is mostly brought on from others that discriminate against us...why should we have to change and not humanity it self to be more understating and knowledgeable, just a thought to a hypothetical question

I'm proud to be trans* for who I am today.