Hi, I'm giving myself my first injection by myself tomorrow (3rd shot overall).
I was given a 22 gauge needle and no extras to change after I draw the T into from the vial.  At the office for my first 2 shots, the nurse drew the T out with one needle, then changed it to a smaller gauge.

Is it safe to draw it out and inject right away with the same needle, or do I need to change out needles?

It is not necessary unless you prefer to inject with something smaller. It is all about your pain tolerance. There is no issue with contamination from vial to you.

I disagree. I think it's necessary. Needles become more blunt the more times they penetrate something.



While one use maybe doesn't look like a lot, I still think that a fresh needle is best.

Ask your doctor to write a script for more needles... But, in some states, you can just ask for needles and the pharmacy will give them to you.

No you don't need to change the needle, some people like to change it, so they can use a big fat needle to draw, then a thin one to inject so it hurts less. I will say that a 22 gauge needle is pretty thick and may hurt, I usually use a 23-25.

I never change my needles anymore, my rule is.. if you can inject it into you, then you can draw it up too. it just takes patience because drawing with a thin needle will take a while. I don't like to change the needles because you lose a little bit of T that way.

Like kyler said, the needle does become blunt with every use (i'm assuming even when penetrating the rubber vial top, but Ive never noticed a difference between a never used needle, and a needle that has also pierced a vial top.

As a professional 28 year Paramedic, 3 as an elite Helicopter trauma medic I stand by my statement. You do not have to change for a one time draw and inject.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 22, 2014, 12:24:48 AM
As a professional 28 year Paramedic, 3 as an elite Helicopter trauma medic I stand by my statement. You do not have to change for a one time draw and inject.

That's way cool you did (or still do?) this Jessica. 

My doctor explained that the only purpose for using two needles was that the larger needle made it easier to draw out the thick testosterone (thick because of the oil) yet would be painful to inject with---thus a smaller needle.  She said it was fine to use one needle for both drawing and injecting.

I used to have to inject myself with a medication and only used one needle. 

But we have a professional right here on this board who also says it's ok (Jessica) so.......

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 22, 2014, 12:24:48 AM
As a professional 28 year Paramedic, 3 as an elite Helicopter trauma medic I stand by my statement. You do not have to change for a one time draw and inject.

I think there's a difference between *safe* and *comfortable*. T is very thick and I think almost all the guys I know who inject change needles. But it wouldn't actually harm you not to.

--Jay

I actually had to have 2 sets of different gauge needles to do my shots with. My lab lady at the dr office gave me these safe draw syringes at first that were amazing for pulling t out of the vial then i'd just put one of my 22 gauge needles on the end of that and bam be done. But I learned shortly after trying to get more of the safe draw syringes that they are not available to the general public and labs/hospitals only.
So I tried getting T out with the 22 gauge and nothing would come out, if not trickle so I had my dr prescribe me 18 gauges to pull the T out with, then I screw on my 22 to do the shot. It's a bit of a hassle and the 18 gauge needle doesn't reach all the way into the bottom of the vial so I actually need to call my dr office tomorrow or ask the pharmacy what I need to do to get the extra T out with because the needle isn't going to do it.
But I do the 2 needle step each time and I think that's what you saw your dr office do.

Quote from: Hex on April 23, 2014, 11:08:27 PM
I actually had to have 2 sets of different gauge needles to do my shots with. My lab lady at the dr office gave me these safe draw syringes at first that were amazing for pulling t out of the vial then i'd just put one of my 22 gauge needles on the end of that and bam be done. But I learned shortly after trying to get more of the safe draw syringes that they are not available to the general public and labs/hospitals only.
So I tried getting T out with the 22 gauge and nothing would come out, if not trickle so I had my dr prescribe me 18 gauges to pull the T out with, then I screw on my 22 to do the shot. It's a bit of a hassle and the 18 gauge needle doesn't reach all the way into the bottom of the vial so I actually need to call my dr office tomorrow or ask the pharmacy what I need to do to get the extra T out with because the needle isn't going to do it.
But I do the 2 needle step each time and I think that's what you saw your dr office do.

I'd be interested in what you find out about how to get that extra T out. I'm at that point right now too where I can't get that last shot.

Quote from: TRyan on April 23, 2014, 11:15:25 PM
I'd be interested in what you find out about how to get that extra T out. I'm at that point right now too where I can't get that last shot.

maybe I have a different type of vial, but you two cant just flip it upside down? I always get every last drop from my vial, when it gets super low I just have the needle sticking into the rubber top as close as it can get before coming off.

Quote from: Elijah on April 24, 2014, 12:01:12 AM
maybe I have a different type of vial, but you two cant just flip it upside down? I always get every last drop from my vial, when it gets super low I just have the needle sticking into the rubber top as close as it can get before coming off.

Ditto

I'll have to try that flip thing. I was getting a lot of air going on as I'm tilting the vial and that became very irritating. But I'll see what I can do about pulling the needle back a bit and going about it that way.

If I needed a helicopter to come and help me, I think I'd be less worried about comfort and want to get what ever I needed fast. I think the other factor is to be able to use a smaller needle.

--Jay

Quote from: Elijah on April 24, 2014, 12:01:12 AM
maybe I have a different type of vial, but you two cant just flip it upside down? I always get every last drop from my vial, when it gets super low I just have the needle sticking into the rubber top as close as it can get before coming off.

Haha. Good point Elijah. I'll try it Saturday.

If you're having a lot of trouble drawing, have you tried having some air already in the needle and pumping it into the empty air in the vial before you draw? I think if you don't, it creates a vacuum effect and makes it harder to draw.

Quote from: BrotherBen on April 26, 2014, 01:39:38 AM
If you're having a lot of trouble drawing, have you tried having some air already in the needle and pumping it into the empty air in the vial before you draw? I think if you don't, it creates a vacuum effect and makes it harder to draw.

This did the trick. Thanks...

Not necessarily. I draw up the T with an 18 gauge just to make life easier, as the serum is pretty thick, then I switch to a 22 to inject.

Switching needles is kind to your muscle if your vials are like mine and have a metal cap to punch through before the rubber seal. It can make a needle rough enough to cause more bruising and bleeding when you inject.

You don't need to, but using a brand-new needle is a bit more comfortable and may reduce scarring. You want to reduce scarring whenever possible. Scar tissue buildup is painful.

Hex and TRyan (and anyone else this method can help):

The key is to add equal air volume to T volume removed. Why equal air volume? Because it will get you as close as possible to your T volume with little or no guessing (you'll see what I mean). If you don't add any air, there will only be negative pressure and that's why it is so difficult (even nearly impossible) to draw the T up. That is also why the vial's air will often want to fill the barrel instead of the T at first ("the path of least resistance"). BUT by adding the (optimally, equal-to-dose) air volume to the vial first, you're creating positive pressure in the vial and that's what will push/propel that same volume of T into the negative pressure of the barrel (instead of negative vial pressure and negative barrel pressure, which = TPITA).

So:

1. Of course, begin by swabbing your vial top with alcohol (please don't ever neglect that) and continue steps 2 through 4 with the vial right-side up.
2. Take your draw syringe and draw up your dose amount in air. As in, just pull the plunger back until the rubber end is on your dose line (I do this with the cap still on but you can do it with it off if you want).
3. Put the syringe needle into the vial (BUT DON'T INJECT THE AIR YET!).
4. Make sure the needle is close to but not actually hitting the bottom of the vial.
5. Now turn the vial and syringe upside down (your fingers will want to touch the needle as you do this; don't let them).
6. Ensure the needle's end is in the vial's air (at the "top") and NOT in the T (hold it up against a light source if you have to); now inject the syringe air into the vial (as if you inject the air into the vial's T, it can bubble it and you don't want that. So I reiterate, ensure the needle's end is in the vial's air at the "top" before injecting the air).
7. You're going to pull the syringe barrel a little until the needle's end is a good way into the T.
8. Now pull the plunger back. Note, it is best to do this in one firm pull until you hit resistance. The point of resistance is where you will begin exceeding the volume of the air you had injected into the vial. You will continue to pull a bit beyond that resistance (not a lot though; you'll know when to stop) and:
9. Now *HOLD* the plunger where you pulled it to, until the vial's positive pressure continues to fill the barrel's empty negative pressure with the T "by itself" (you'll see what I mean). The pressure will stop trying to pull the plunger forward against your finger when the T has replaced that empty negative pressure in the barrel. IF it didn't fill completely, start pulling again but do it slow and steady this time otherwise it will start sucking the vial's air instead of the T and we don't want that PITA.
10. Now, with the vial and syringe still inverted, inject any excess T back into the vial until the plunger is on your dose line (IF there were any little air bubbles, they should be pushed back into the vial at this point. But IF there are somehow large bubbles you'll have to "tap out"/plunge out later).
11. Turn vial and filled syringe right-side up.
12. Remove and (carefully) recap syringe to prep injection site; and you know the rest.

When you've mastered that (you should rather quickly), not only will be it be ridiculously hassle-free to draw up but there should also only be an insignificantly tiny amount of air left in the barrel (i.e. no pushing the plunger before injection necessary); although it is always a good idea to turn the syringe upside down and flick it a few times to settle the tiny air bubble(s) up to the rubber-end (even if there doesn't seem to be any; they often hide near the needle). Another benefit is, you can essentially draw up with any needle gauge and skip using two different ones (unless you prefer a "virgin needle" to inject).

Other than that, the only time you should tilt a vial is when it is nearly empty. In that case you will tilt the vial, get the needle as close to the "bottom" as possible without it coming back out and you will also rotate the syringe until the needle bevel ("/") is parallel to the vial's side that has the T tilted towards it. Also, you might want to add more air than what you think is left to make it even simpler (but I wouldn't do that with a full/mostly full vial; only a nearly empty one). Otherwise, you will always want to keep the vial straight/level to avoid sucking up the vial's air.