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Are there any androgynes on HRT or?

Started by MbutF, April 25, 2014, 08:23:10 AM

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MbutF

Just wondering, since I've always wanted to know.

Are there any androgynes who are on HRT or anything else to look/feel more like the opposite gender, but yet, don't identify as the opposite gender? This could mean that they are happy identifying with their birth gender, or at least don't mind it, but have a hard time accepting their bodies/looks and want to change it so they can find it easier to accept themselves.

I'm a newbie, and since there are so many people out there, I was wondering what an androgyne can do to or do if they're not happy with how their bodies. (Btw, I don't really identify as one, just curious because I have an androgyne friend and he says his body just doesn't match his 'soul', he says he can't pull off the androgynous look..... but is androgynous inside...)
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FalseHybridPrincess

I believe the right thing to do would be to allow all genderqueer identities to undego hrt

When I first started therapy my psychiatrist told me that in order to take hormones you have to identify as female...
but what happens when you dont identify as one but you have dysphoria about you body?

I currently identify as a demigirl but dysphoria about my physical male appearance is crushing , thats why I want to change and have a female body even if I dont identify as a female ,,,Im sure the same goes for andogynous people , genderfluid , gender neutral etc

No matter what you like to wear , no matter how you want to act if you look in the mirror and you feel like crying cause you re not seeing yourself then you should be able to do whatever you want to change that...


btw I suppose that if you want to be androgynous on the ouside you would have to have both male and female characteristics but Im not sure about that,,,

people see things differently after all
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
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helen2010

Quote from: MbutF on April 25, 2014, 08:23:10 AM
Just wondering, since I've always wanted to know.

Are there any androgynes who are on HRT or anything else to look/feel more like the opposite gender, but yet, don't identify as the opposite gender? This could mean that they are happy identifying with their birth gender, or at least don't mind it, but have a hard time accepting their bodies/looks and want to change it so they can find it easier to accept themselves.

I'm a newbie, and since there are so many people out there, I was wondering what an androgyne can do to or do if they're not happy with how their bodies. (Btw, I don't really identify as one, just curious because I have an androgyne friend and he says his body just doesn't match his 'soul', he says he can't pull off the androgynous look..... but is androgynous inside...)

Interesting question. I identify as GQ and wish to present as more feminine ie more androgyne.  Yes I generally identify as more female than male but this does change according to circumstance.  Low dose hrt allows me to look and feel less male but stress that I am not seeking full transition to the opposite binary.  In concert with hrt I am using FFS, hair removal, more androgynous hair and brows etc.   I am currently challenged with clothes but have had great advice from other forum members like  Ativan Prescribed who are much further in their journey than I.

The gender fluidity that I seek is to provide me with full, nuanced and authentic expression to suit the conversation, relationship or circumstance that I face.  My therapist and endo see me as tg and did not ask me to commit to a full transition or to fully identify as female. They have allowed me to vary hrt dosages to best achieve my objectives.

Aisla
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suzifrommd

Quote from: MbutF on April 25, 2014, 08:23:10 AM
Just wondering, since I've always wanted to know.

Are there any androgynes who are on HRT or anything else to look/feel more like the opposite gender, but yet, don't identify as the opposite gender? This could mean that they are happy identifying with their birth gender, or at least don't mind it, but have a hard time accepting their bodies/looks and want to change it so they can find it easier to accept themselves.

I'm a newbie, and since there are so many people out there, I was wondering what an androgyne can do to or do if they're not happy with how their bodies. (Btw, I don't really identify as one, just curious because I have an androgyne friend and he says his body just doesn't match his 'soul', he says he can't pull off the androgynous look..... but is androgynous inside...)

I posted nearly the exact same question a couple years ago in the form of a poll:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,123868.0.html
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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JamesG

Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on April 25, 2014, 08:42:56 AM
When I first started therapy my psychiatrist told me that in order to take hormones you have to identify as female...
but what happens when you dont identify as one but you have dysphoria about you body?

They do that to fit you into their neat little boxes of psychological conditions and because transgender/sexualism is regarded as a "disease" that needs "treatment" and becomes the rationalization that works for all parties (the straights can accept it, the shrinks and docs make money, and the TG get what they want).

@ MbutF-  I fit into the category of what you're asking about. I am genetic male, "straighti-sh" (as in an sexually attracted to female more than male), and happy with my anatomical parts.  But I've always been tall and willowy, introverted and associated/identified with women more than men. My genes put me at the very female side of the trait distribution curve.  As common, this put me at odds with societal expectations and image.

So I've decided to embrace and just roll with it.  For a bunch of reason, full transition isn't practical at this time, so I'm settling for androgynous, using subtle HRT and feminization more as an intentional act of body modification and styling than as a means to an ultimate end goal of full transition to a completely cis appearing woman.

There are a lot of people like your friend. People who are gay, or gender dysphoric (not the same) can manifest themselves as androgynous or otherwise deviating from (or extreme adherence to) accepted social norms and customs in many ways. Everything from cross-dressing in private to more destructive behaviors, there really is a wide range because everyone is different.
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MbutF

Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on April 25, 2014, 08:42:56 AM

When I first started therapy my psychiatrist told me that in order to take hormones you have to identify as female...
but what happens when you dont identify as one but you have dysphoria about you body?


You HAVE to identify as a female? I didn't know that,

Quote from: JamesG
So I've decided to embrace and just roll with it.  For a bunch of reason, full transition isn't practical at this time, so I'm settling for androgynous, using subtle HRT and feminization more as an intentional act of body modification and styling than as a means to an ultimate end goal of full transition to a completely cis appearing woman.

Do you identify as a female? You can't go on HRT without that?
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JamesG

Quote from: MbutF on April 25, 2014, 11:25:26 AM
You HAVE to identify as a female? I didn't know that,
In order to be diagnosed with the psychiatric condition called "gender identity disorder" and thus be recognized as transgendered by "The Authorities" (the State and medical profession), one of the boxes to check is nodding your head to that question amongst others.

Quote
Do you identify as a female?

I identify as "me". 

QuoteYou can't go on HRT without that?

That depends on what you consider "HRT".  The tweaking of hormones is not exactly top secrut.  Can't say more without suffering the wrath of Susan and her minions.  :angel:
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ativan

Quote from: MbutF on April 25, 2014, 08:23:10 AM
Are there any androgynes who are on HRT or anything else to look/feel more like the opposite gender, but yet, don't identify as the opposite gender? This could mean that they are happy identifying with their birth gender, or at least don't mind it, but have a hard time accepting their bodies/looks and want to change it so they can find it easier to accept themselves.

I'm a newbie, and since there are so many people out there, I was wondering what an androgyne can do to or do if they're not happy with how their bodies. (Btw, I don't really identify as one, just curious because I have an androgyne friend and he says his body just doesn't match his 'soul', he says he can't pull off the androgynous look..... but is androgynous inside...)
The line in bold catches my eye.
It's quite common to assume that some non-binary people are seeking to look and feel like the opposite of their birth assigned gender.
Non-binaries in general aren't looking to transition from male to female or female to male, not in the sense of identity.
They are trying to adjust within their non-binary gender.
This is an important consideration that goes a long ways for binaries to accept and helps people like your friend more than most things will.
We are not in transition in the binary sense of it. We make adjustments that stay within our own gender.
Separate from the binary genders.
You could say it's a transition, or you could look at it as modifying within a gender.
Modifying within the gender you are isn't that hard of a concept.
In the binary world, there are fashion adjustments to make you feel better.
There are magazines and articles galore about make up and how to achieve that look of gender you wish to be.
There are lots of binaries that are doing full transitions to completely change from their assigned gender to align themselves, body and mind.
There are some who only wish to attain a certain amount of change, non-op being a good example.
This often is confusing unless you consider that non-binaries, in general, are just making those adjustments within their gender.
Which is not binary in nature. Not that hard of a concept once you look at it from a non-binaries point of view.
Fully understanding that concept can be hard, but accepting that is does exist, goes a long ways.
This is something that helps all trans people, to know there are options out there.
And I think our ability to move from one to another if we wish to is extraordinary in itself.
I've read about it many times here and elsewhere. Trans people are pretty flexible and today's thinking reflects that.

But to answer your question, indeed there are HRT doses that are designed to decrease the effects of dysphoria.
There has also been more and more acceptance of slightly more to even full dose transition levels for non-binaries.
Full dose for a non-binary isn't the same to them as it is to, say MTF or even FTM.
It does stay within their thinking or rights as much as anyone to change their appearance to better suit their gender.
In these cases, they remain a non-binary entity as they simply have chosen to change completely their appearance.
Here's that blurred line between transsexual and non-binary, right there.
Where you are depends on how you identify.
How you want to identify, not how anyone else wants to decide how you are identifying.
Your body, your rules. It applies to everyone.
If my rules tell me to completely change my appearance, that has nothing to do with my gender of non-binary.
It has everything to do with expression, the same as any gender does.
Expression can imply a certain amount of gender, but it is far from what defines it.
Just as sexuality doesn't define a gender and vice versa.
So yes there are indeed and has been for quite some, various levels of low dose HRT.
Designed to decrease the physical changes, yet help with the mental potion of dysphoria.
The higher the levels, the higher the physical changes you can expect.
If I want to change some attributes, I can and then back down to a maintenance level.
The lowest levels have a purpose behind them.
Often it allows a non-binary to quiet the 'rage', the 'noise' down to a point where they can then go on to decide what expression is best for them.

In thinking or even in helping a friend who is non-binary, it's important to understand it is not an in between kind of gender.
It is and is recognized as a gender spectrum aside from the binary spectrum that transsexuals use to define their transitions.
Yet there are those who can and do move from one to the other.
We're people, and people can and do change their minds as they move through life.
To redefine one's own gender is common. Could happen for any number of reasons.

The difference of how non-binary gender is viewed and the HRT treatments among other things is vastly different than five years ago.
Ten years ago, even a year ago. Acceptance that your friend knows best what their gender is, is up to them.
Just as yours is to you and this holds true for anyone.
Gender dysphoria just plain sucks to live with. Mentally and physically.
This is true for any Trans person.
Just what is available and just how you go about it can be confusing.
But once you figure it out for yourself, you're on a journey to transform yourself into who you think you should be.
Who you really are. This is true for any Trans person.
Acceptance goes a long ways in quieting dysphoria, as it is generally rooted in how others perceive you and accordingly treat you.
For non-binary people, acceptance that they are not some version of an in between and that they are their own gender goes a long ways.
My doctor, who I get my HRT prescriptions from, is one of the many leaders in this way of treating non-binary people.
If I request a higher dose, her concerns are for my physical self, and asks me about how my mental health is doing as an indicator of that.
I can at anytime, switch it up to full dose if I care to.
She understands that I would be simply changing my expression to better suite my gender, non-binary.
Not all doctors are up to speed on this, as well as many in the trans community aren't aware of changes in acceptance.
Things are changing, and it is hard to keep up with, but such is the nature of change sometimes.

Your body, your mind, your rules. It applies to everyone. acceptance is very key to this.
Understanding it is even better. It makes everyone a better person, regardless.
Acceptance shows that you can be a better person, because of it.

Acceptance of others and their approach to life is something we can all be better at.
Learning to understand things that are different from our own world view is a joyful thing to behold.
This is true, regardless of who you are, regardless of who anyone is.
Trans people are coming into their own with regards to society and even politically.
It's hard at the same time, to endure those who refuse to accept this.
Within the trans community, it's even tougher at times.
I can see the trend of acceptance growing from within and from without.
I also see how important it is that acceptance from within is important to gain acceptance from outside the community.
Understanding that everyone has far more in common than we do have differences is important.
When you look at what we all have in common, the differences become much smaller and more acceptable.
A whisper of myself,
Ativan
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MbutF

@ativan

that was some post :). Amazing. Thanks for replying, I really needed that, thank you. That was really awesome.
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JamesG

That was an awesome response. This thread is done.  LOL.
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MbutF

I feel for my friend, because mtf and ftm can change things they want (I know how hard it is, not ignoring that) but what do people like my friend do if they cant accept themselves the way they are ? Im guessing only plastic surgeries are their option ? Im not sure though.
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Evelyn K

Good reading. My IQ just went up a few points. Thanks!
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luna nyan

Quote from: MbutF on April 25, 2014, 08:23:10 AM
Are there any androgynes who are on HRT or anything else to look/feel more like the opposite gender, but yet, don't identify as the opposite gender? This could mean that they are happy identifying with their birth gender, or at least don't mind it, but have a hard time accepting their bodies/looks and want to change it so they can find it easier to accept themselves.
*wave*
I've been on low dose for 2 years now.  I'm more inclined to be MTF rather than MTA, but coping as MT(sekritly on HRT to ???).  My circumstances preclude transition at this point in time.

QuoteI'm a newbie, and since there are so many people out there, I was wondering what an androgyne can do to or do if they're not happy with how their bodies.
Things that can be done:
1.  Keep the weight off.
2.  Plenty of gender neutral clothing out there.
3.  Andro haircut.
4.  Electro to get rid of beard.
5.  Low dose HRT if a supporting endo can be found.
6.  Cosmetic surgery.

Things that I have done:
1.  Finished electro.
2.  Low dose HRT.
I feel comfortable enough as is.  If I grow my hair out too much, dress in an andro fashion, and lose too much weight, I'll probably end up male failing (not desirable in my situation).

As far as your friend is concerned, it's just a case of doing as much as needed till he feels comfortable in his own skin.
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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mythy

I am a non-binary person who is on HRT. I really liked what AtivanPrescribed said about transitioning within one's gender. At this point I pass as male to strangers and people who don't know me but anyone who knows me knows that I am non-binary. I love all the things that hormones have done to my body and I do not regret going on HRT at all. This is just a reminder to me that I made the right decision after so much contemplation about where I fit in along the trans spectrum. I still feel that my gender identity is the same, I'm still non-binary and I still don't really identify with female or male, but I have dealt with my dysphoria in a way that is comfortable to me.

I also think that whatever someone wants to do with their body is their business and transitioning** should be more about safety and informed consent rather than fitting into doctor approved box, "M" or "F." Unfortunately, my viewpoint on this subject is not widely shared and is largely misunderstood. However, recently there is more and more acceptance and understanding of non-binary people who wish to undergo HRT and surgeries. I think that one's ability to do so is often dictated by their location and proximity to doctors who are willing to give HRT/surgeries to non-binary people but there are doctors out there who will do this. I live in San Francisco so it wasn't too hard for me to get hormones. Getting hormones/surgeries when you live in a rural area is harder for anyone, binary or not, because of the cultural stigma around transitioning. Doing so would probably involve lying to doctors for an extended period of time to back up one's case according to WPATH standards.





**I say transitioning to describe the process of getting hormones and surgeries although being a non-binary person kind of throws a wrench in the widely held notions of what it means to transition genders or transition sex. People ask me, if I'm non-binary then why transition? Transition to what exactly? It should really be about one's individual comfort level and not about one's ability to pass or to fit in to status quo notions of genderedness (i.e. male or female gender roles).
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MbutF

Thank you for sharing your story mythy :) That was very insightful.
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Satinjoy

I will be back to this thread and back to this part of the forum now that I have finally figured out that I am non binary.

I am on HRT and full dose, and have intense physical gender dysphoria.
I am also non binary, relationally genderfluid and emotionally niether male nor female.  I am actually amused by the binary terms as non applicable to me as a preop transwoman living andro now.

This is going to be fun.

The shrink should determine what is in the best interest of the patient, whatever the deal is with classifications.  One of the reasons for the three month qualifyer for hormone therapy.  It is to determine if we know what we are getting into, the consequences, and if it will help us personally.  Rulebound deviations in my belief are harmful and not helpful.

But we darn well need to know everything we are getting into when we start this lifelong HRT journey or it will kick our butts later.

God bless and love to all here.
Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the red pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the little blue pills - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes

Sh'e took the little blue ones.
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mythy

Quote from: MbutF on May 04, 2014, 04:53:29 AM
Thank you for sharing your story mythy :) That was very insightful.

You're welcome. :)
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mythy

Quote from: Satinjoy on May 06, 2014, 06:49:55 AM


The shrink should determine what is in the best interest of the patient, whatever the deal is with classifications.  One of the reasons for the three month qualifyer for hormone therapy.  It is to determine if we know what we are getting into, the consequences, and if it will help us personally.  Rulebound deviations in my belief are harmful and not helpful.

But we darn well need to know everything we are getting into when we start this lifelong HRT journey or it will kick our butts later.


I agree. People have to know about the lifelong effects of HRT before they start taking hormones. I just don't think that people should have to prove their maleness or femaleness based on presentation or other external expressions of themselves to be eligible for HRT. However, they should prove that they know what HRT will do to their bodies and the long term risks. 
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