Hey all,

So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance.  I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you.  I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans.  Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense.  I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this.  Can you share how you feel overall.  Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc?  Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall?  And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"?  How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.

For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't.  I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life.  Thank you!

Having just transitioned in a fairly public way (stayed at my job, know/knew a lot of people) I doubt I'll ever be stealth for as long as I remain in that job/industry. It's only early days yet so I can't really answer your question. I'm kind of interested to see how it plays out myself. Personally I'm hoping it won't be an issue, for the moment I am being treated as a female member of staff.

How can I possibly still be awake. Still,  I have to respond to this.
Hon, I don't pass. Ever. My nails pop out from my fingertips over a half an inch. Half of the time I use mascara, and I look like a NFL linebacker. Every day the best look I get is that I am gay. This is wonderful for me. The " God, why doesn't  this freak just stay home."  Look hurts. I don't judge their giant truck and 5' stature. The fact that they haven't seen their toes in a decade because of their belly. Their eighties hair style thirty years too late. Yet they look like I am what is wrong with the planet. I don't try to flaunt my my differences, but I DARE them to make an issue out of it. I am like... Go ahead, push me pal, I will cry on you in a heartbeat.
Truth is, I just don't care. I haven't worn a skirt yet, I don't have one. Every thing I have is fair game. I did not ask to be who I am, and I will be damned before I ask permission.
I am terrified,  and it hurts. End of story.  What is left for me though.

gosh, this is one of the most fiery subjects of the whole transitioning thing. And yes, people suffer, sometimes they suffer so much that living becomes unbearable.
Even though I should consider my self utmost privileged, I still carry the disphoric gene, I still question peoples whispers, their inquisitive looks even though they always turn out false alarms.

As with my story I set out on this journey without visible possibility for where I am now, but also, when I started, I knew that if I didn't get to the absolute of being viewed as a woman I would simply pick up the pill jar an do it again.

Maybe that unwavering need was my force behind the drive.

There are those who can not achieve this realm, and I know from my own perspective, behind all the posturings, all in the attitude remarks, who cares statements, stands pain, so immense and so regretful, that I hope the world will change its attitude towards different, but as well, I know how raw and harsh others opinions are when they them selves do not realize how much their simple words of dismay cut into someones vulnerable heart.

But there are more of them, so that makes them "right". 

But you have your rights and freedom to do anything you want/be. Don't GAS what other people think (but be armed/ready to defend yourself). 

Hmm... well, I don't exactly pass 100%, so I guess I'm qualified to answer this. I've been thinking a lot about this myself, as the reality continues to set in that I will probably need at least a few cosmetic procedures done to pass as well as I'd like to. But you know, I really have it easy compared to most. I live in a state that is reasonably tolerant of transgender people, and I've never been treated poorly by anyone that I'm aware of because I was transgender. I haven't had to deal with the whole transitioning on the job thing either, which I know can be difficult for some people. Other that having to deal with the knowledge that people will probably view me as transgender, and some issues with my family, I haven't experienced many of the hardships of transitioning.

All I really do is just take things day by day and work to improve my situation. That's all you can do really. Even if I can't pass at the moment, there are always goals I can work toward that may allow me to pass better in the future. And even if I never get to the point of passing 100%, I wouldn't have any regrets. I was not happy before I started to transition, and I may not always be happy now, but it's still a big improvement. Besides, if I was going to detransition, what would I do? Stop hormone therapy? That's just not going to happen. Doing so would pretty much destroy me mentally. Stop using a feminine voice? No way! I think I sound much better now, and I can pass more often on the phone than I can in person. Cut my hair short? Not a chance. I've wanted to have long hair my whole life, and even if I wanted to be identified as male, men have long hair too sometimes, so there's no reason for me to cut it. The list goes on, but you get the point.

First and foremost, I made the decision to transition so I would feel better about myself. Because all of the things I've done in order to transition have made me feel better about myself, there's nothing I'd want to give up or quit doing, no matter how difficult it was to deal with not passing. Even if I was going to continue identifying as male for the rest of my life, I'd still want to be the most girly male I could possibly be. But hey, that's just me.

Edit: ...and I just saw your pictures in the "Could I pass?" thread. Seriously, you're doing fine. Looking the way you do now, I really think you have nothing to worry about. Absolute worst case scenario, you might need to pay for a few cosmetic procedures if you still aren't happy with how you look after you've been on hormones for a while longer. But in the long run I just don't think you have anything to worry about. For now I would just keep working on things like your voice and mannerism, because that might go a long way to defeating the whole androgynous appearance problem.

I'm glad you're asking the question LTL .

I won't answer the not passing thing, because to some extent, I do. But certainly many know me as trans as I transitioned in my old workplace. How did that impact relationships or the way I was treated? Well, the visible transition was really a non issue. People used the right name and pronouns 99% of the time, and I was treated as just another woman.

I was expecting much worse.

It just seems that most people are fine to go along so long as you're putting in the effort. I mean, you don't go from Jack to Jill without many other visual, behavioral and speech changes. That is not to say they understand it... they don't.

But there are those who are so toxic and mean who can't help but have a problem. I did have one such rather negative experience at my last workplace. Two bullies took a disliked to me ( guess why ) and were trying to make my professional life hell.  Sadly, it was two levels of management. Why is it always the trash of society that make it into management roles? All of my colleagues were fantastic though. I could have fought, and technically won, but the stress wasn't worth it. And I would ultimately have ended up losing more than I'd have gained.

I look at it this way. There are 7.2 billion people in the world all with different opinions, and you are only one of them. What matters most is how you feel about yourself. One of the lessons in life I learned a long time ago was you are not going to please everyone. Just being yourself is what really counts. Of course you avoid putting your self is situations where things could get sticky, such as I wouldn't walk into a redneck bar presenting as female. Then again, if I knew I was safe, I might do it for shock value.. 

While yes I do have concerns about the whole pass / fail thing, I have to step back and ask myself is it really that important? After all I am not doing this for someone else, I am doing this for my sanity and being who I really am. Then things seem to fall into place in my head. Bottom line is were not the only one with issues about self confidence. There are many out there with disabilities and or bodies they don't like not having to do with being transgender that have the same issues. You can't please everyone, so as long as you are happy with you, does it really matter? 

Thanks everyone that has responded so far.  It is appreciated.  Like I said, I want to hear from those with life experience in this realm.  For all the fears I have about not passing, I haven't read many testimonials in this department to know what their life is like overall. Who am I to judge the non-passing life without really knowing what it's like?  Even if this is not what I want, maybe I'm putting too much priority on passing which may just be an untrue ideal that I've made the most important thing in life.  Like a do or die thing.  I think it would be healthy for me to get a balanced view here and that would probably help others as well.  Thank you for sharing your stories, I look foward to hearing more.

Well I think that for most m2f, even those who do pass really well there will still be times when they get read by someone somehow for some reason. Doubtless there are those who are 100% passable, good luck to them, but for the rest of us we just have to make do with what we've got. Yes, I have relatively natural feminine features, but I'm 6'3", wear a wig due to considerable MPB, and have a "husky" voice. Sometimes I'm amazed I'm not read the minute I walk out the door, maybe some people wonder, some people might even realise but if they do they've said nothing. So do I pass? Presumably, but I still can't believe some people haven't worked it out eventually. But I can't let it consume me, otherwise I wouldn't get to enjoy what I really want out of all this...and that's to live and enjoy my life as a woman.

I don't pass I'm 6'1 and a half,240 lb,big hands,big feet and sound like Lemmy.It's about confidence and not giving a rat's ass what others think,I've worked with the public for 14 years and 99% are OK with me.In my town there's an unpassable trans woman,she's overweight,has a gruff voice from smoking and has thin greying hair.She lives in a war zone and drives a ratty £120 old Ford with odd coloured doors.She's had the same boyfriend for 6 years and is the cheeriest happiest person I know,never without a smile or cheery greeting.People love her,passing is great but it's not everything,being un passable doesn't mean you shouldn't transition

Well I don't want to say I do or do not pass because I don't pass I live. Do people know I'm trans yes some do some don't I'm fine with it that's life. I don't think anybody can say they pass for sure because that would be implying they really know what another person is thinking. I'll be honest the trans community puts way too much emphasis on passing. It's way more important to be yourself and know yourself then it is to have someone see you as a male or a female. 

My transition was very public, in a relatively small community. All my friends watched my transition. I honestly don't know if I pass or not among people who don't know me, because the treat me with the same courtesy, and respect due any woman. What more could I ask for?
As for friends and neighbors who have watched me change... I just told them 'I'm done now, call me Paula'. Most of them had only positive comments, and aside from a few accidental misgenderings, life just carried on.

I started fulltime when I went into therapy to show my therapist I was serious about it, best decision ever.

Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 10:00:35 AM
Well I don't want to say I do or do not pass because I don't pass I live. Do people know I'm trans yes some do some don't I'm fine with it that's life. I don't think anybody can say they pass for sure because that would be implying they really know what another person is thinking. I'll be honest the trans community puts way too much emphasis on passing. It's way more important to be yourself and know yourself then it is to have someone see you as a male or a female.

I think that's a healthy perspective.  I was talking to my therapist today, and I realize I put everything on hold until I can present the right way.  Even doing things like volunteering at a soup kitchen, which is something I plan on doing frequently in the near future,  I refuse to do at this moment because I'm still a "boy".   And if I want to do charity in the future, I want everyone to meet me as a girl rather than a boy so I don't have to come out.  How weird is that? I have so much that I want to experience, to do or give, and live that I just keep as a dream because I refuse to experience life anymore until I live as female.  While I'm getting closer to that point, it's ridicoulous I shut my life out because of my passing status.  The only thing I really do is work, and now I'm unemployed again, though that's likely just a temp thing and I'll probably be back after the appeal.  I just want to live life, have fun, try new things, and give back to the world.  And rather than staying at home writing poetry on this Saturday, I would like to go on a date and meet new people.  Be a normal girl in this world.  But my  life is tied to my appearance.  If I don't pass, I don't feel comfortable being myself cause I'm sick of having to be a guy.  It's like a curse and a trap.  And if I have to lie to the world about who I am, I don't even want to be in it and rather shut myself out.  That's why passing is important because I want to be able to be myself without feeling so much fear, anxiety and discomfort everywhere I go.  I don't know.

Those of you who are free with your appearance and can live life regardless of appearances are awesome.  Seriously, be proud of yourselves for having that courage.  I wish I could be the same way.  However, passing is important to me, and I feel compelled to put my life on hold until I get to that point.  Good thing is it's getting very close.  In any case, that's why I think it's unhealthy to focus too much on passing.  It hurts you in the end if you make it everything like I had.  this is sort of my warning to those starting out.  Don't let it consume you and don't be like LTL. 

Thanks everyone for your feedback.  I'm doing some important introspection that I've needed to do.  Thanks. 

Quite an important question that you've asked was, if you get clocked, do you regret transitioning? the answer is no. When you get clocked, yes, it is depressing, it is quite debilitating, but it actually makes you wanna push forward I noticed. You can actually take a lesson out of it, learn what needs to be worked on and at the end of the day I think you're quite fortunate to live in a city where even when clocked, nothing's gonna happen. I'm in the same position, I am fortunate enough to live in a country and among people who won't (I presume) do anything more other than the occasional gossiping behind my back etc. Goodluck!

While I am fairly sure I don't really pass, I cannot say I've received any negative comments during my time in rural WV/MD. I have received a few waaay too long glances from women and late teen / early twenty girls that made be feel uncomfortable. I know it is easy to say this, and I lived how hard it is to do, yet attitude counts a lot. I can only assume the worse as to why the stares. My fears paralyze me too much as it is. I will not allow my fears ruin the joy I feel when I am out in the real world being the real me, So I just smile and keep on going.

They think you're sexy and want you to have their babies. 

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
Hey all,

So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance.  I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you.  I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans.  Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense.  I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this.  Can you share how you feel overall.  Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc?  Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall?  And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"?  How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.

For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't.  I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life.  Thank you!

I'm full time pre-hrt, I get clocked all the time.  It doesn't matter to me to much.  True story, if there were a pill to make me a cisgender female I wouldn't take it.  I am proud to be trans.  At the end of it all, after HRT, SRS, FFS, etc. al. we will always be transwomen and you know what? That's cool, we are very special and beautiful creatures in our own right.

How do I handle being clocked?  I kill them with kindness, I kill them with femininity, I kill them with a warm smile.  Even the hardest heart can be softened by a good dose of kindness and a warm smile.

I am who I am,  I (finally) like who I am, and unlike most of the people in the world, I'm honest about who and what I am and most of my flaws are visible on the outside.

That is something to be proud about. That is something to be confident about.  That is being a woman.

-AM

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
Hey all,

So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance.  I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you.  I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans.  Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense.  I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this.  Can you share how you feel overall.  Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc?  Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall?  And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"?  How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.

For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't.  I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life.  Thank you!

I will share what you wish to know from my life. This is for not just you TLT but anyone who needs a push in the right direction. A fair warning, some of the stuff I write "might" trigger something (Hopefully good vs. bad) and this post may be long but please read it.

Ok so while I "can" pass as a woman (Appearance wise) the moment I speak I've noticed people usually call me a guy but before hand they might have thought me to be a girl. (I can't speak for all of them but from all my time in the woman's restroom and out and about I'd say I passed till I spoke) However, even when I speak I sometimes am called the correct pronouns and such. This is even more so the case if I have a skirt or dress on or even make up on and even my purse with me. Now, I don't wear a wig and have been growing my hair out and also I am not on HRT yet. (Wish I was though) I also don't really understand/know what all are the habits/characteristics of what a "typical" male and a "typical" female does/acts. (I know some but not the really little ones nor do I notice them, case in point, when people say they realize they're moving their body in a more feminine way) So I really can't comment on that however, I said "typical" because there are PLENTY of guys who are feminine and show it (Such as crying, being sensitive etc. etc.) and same with girls who act tough, play rough and in the mud and are into sports, less sensitive/emotional and so on etc. etc. so I try not to worry TOO MUCH about that part of the transition process.

Now, I honestly don't know how truly well I pass but I've been lucky that there has been few incidents of violence (Verbal/physical and no physical so far for me), and people not being respectful to me. The majority of ones who aren't respectful to me and still treat me like a male are A) Family and B) Those who I work with. Although at least at work they call me by my preferred female only name but they still call me a guy while the rest call me by my preferred name only and take a gender neutral stance. (To be fair, this might be thanks to how management told them one thing, then told them another thing but the latter should have told them what they ARE supposed to be doing) I will have to get into contact with the HR department again on this matter. (again) So anyway, at work the problem with my appearance is really hard to pass as female. My voice is bad enough but sadly I have to wear a hair net, thus I look WAY less feminine. (Next to 0) So that makes it harder for others to know I'm a woman.

So, people who know me probably think I'm trans or just weird. Still I am treated nicely and I enjoy my work including the environment, until I get misgendered or the occasion called by my old name/sir. -_- When that happens whether at work or anywhere including out and about, it hurts me, it depresses me and I've had a few, mainly just two incidents which really hurt me big time. The first is when I finally started full time, I got misgendered while trying to get my ears pierced (Didn't happen btw) and thought I didn't pass. I just wanted to go home and get the clothes off me and revert back but couldn't and I'm glad I didn't and I pushed forward. I ended up getting ma'am'd at the end of the day so it made it better for me. The 2nd incident happened recently (A month ago) where I was in the woman's restroom (About my 10th trip in that one) when one of the employees said to another woman in there who I think also worked there "That's a boy." She said it twice and I just pretended as if I didn't hear them but I knew they were talking about me as it was only the 3 of us and the woman who was told this was surprised to hear that and looked at me on our way out while trying to hide the fact she was looking at me. (A look of concerned/confused from what I could tell) Mins later I heard someone on the announcement ask someone to come to the restroom. I believe it was a higher up for the incident involving me but that's just speculation. Ever since then, I've avoided using that restroom and going near that employee. (I can't remember the other employee's appearance sadly) Does it hurt? YES! Does it make me want to detransition? Only at first but I know doing so would A) Be giving up/the end of me and B) Be letting them win and so I'll not let them win. I'll PROVE THEM ALL wrong and so help me, I won't detransition EVER!  Oh and also, for the 2nd incident yes it depressed the crap out of me and ruined my exp. which should have been en enjoyable one, so much so suicidal thoughts happened and I had to burry myself in games and anime to drown it out and pass the time which later I felt much better.

So is transitioning worth it? YES! Even though I am hurt when misgendered I am being myself however, if it happened all the time where I was misgendered I know me being out and about would only hurt me but likewise me not being myself would also hurt me. As to which would hurt me more in such a situation? I can't say, and I don't want to ever know. The reason WHY we put so much emphasis on passing is because if we don't pass, we fear people will hurt/kill us, our lives will be ruined and that we won't be treated kindly/respectfully and as our correct gender. Being able to pass IS a big deal and and for those who don't understand why, try pictureing going out as yourself but now you don't pass and imagine bad stuff happening/people misgendering you and you'll see why it's a big deal. That said, a few pieces of wisdom/advice for those who aren't out yet.
1. Be yourself! You don't have to go full time, take baby steps, work your way up.
2. You'll never know how well you pass or not unless you get as much advice as you can on how to pass and apply that to yourself and then going out there as your true self and try to pass.
3. Don't think 1 or even 2 times out as yourself is a good enough indication that you do or don't pass. It takes 3 or more to get a good feel and I mean at least 1 or more hrs out as yourself each time.
4. It's all in our heads. This is true for the most part. Sure it's true some things might happen which isn't good but typically most people REALLY don't care and will go about their business just like you do yours. This also means if odd reactions come u while you're out as yourself, it doesn't mean it involves you or because you're trans. I should know because I worried so much that I couldn't pass and it eat away at me for so long till I couldn't take it anymore and just slowly went out as myself. It was very hard, nerve racking and embarrassing in some cases (Women's restroom anyone? ) but I pushed forward and am glad I did, even though I still have a long ways to go.
5. When you come out and go full time, it REALLY DOES lift many weights off of you. You wouldn't believe how much better you'll feel. That said, for those who don't pass at all I do believe it'll lift some weights off of you, just not as many as those who can pass. (I can pass but also can't at times so I should know)

I think I'm forgetting something but I hope this help you LTL and anyone else too. Really, try not to worry about it too much and just be yourself, one step at a time.
EDIT: Ok, so, also to add yes even though I'm out full time, it still isn't easy for me. I tend to avoid speaking (Due to the male voice), keep to myself and don't socialize too much. The majority of my interaction with people is at work. So yes, I enjoy being out as myself but still have my fears and worries here and there and on different things. And that, is what I forgot to say.

Oh and LTL, PM me if you have any questions you'd like to ask me or just want to talk about anything.