it can suck lol I'm pre hrt too, so most the time I just get read as butch lesbian -.-, have nothing against lesbians but I don't feel like one, it sucks, especially when things give you away, I have ass and hips sadly and my voice isn't deep due to being pre T, but its whatever, I make that wincing face and just keep on plowing through, patience is a virtue with being transgender, everything happens in time

First, LTL, you need to do it and see what it is like. Different people pass better or worse than others.

At first, I tried to be with friends or in groups. Eventually, I learned most people do not seem to care if they notice, and those that do were raised to be nice so they tend to just give a sour face. The more I worry, the more people seem to notice.

I do not pass 100% and even if I ever do, I doubt I will ever try to be completely stealth. I am trans. I am proud of that.

Honestly, I'm starting to not really care so long as I'm not in a dangerous situation.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
Hey all,

So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance.  I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you.  I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans.  Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense.  I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this.  Can you share how you feel overall.  Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc?  Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall?  And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"?  How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.

For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't.  I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life.  Thank you!

Eight months ago, I felt much the same way. I was terrified of my own shadow and wouldn't leave the house without spending two hours on makeup and styling my hair. I would have an anxiety attack if anyone came within 50 feet of me in public...

Then one day about six months ago I stopped caring about passing and just tried to be comfortable being me.

I have no rhyme or reason to it, no a-ha moment. It just happened. It may have been some advice I heard in a support group... You start to pass when you stop worrying about passing.

I think people pick up on the fear, anxiety, and discomfort more than they do physical appearance. My worrying about being clocked and not passing was a far bigger clue to others than my broad shoulders, deep voice, and five o'clock shadow peaking through my makeup in the evening were. Let's be honest, most people are so self absorbed and oblivious to the world around them that they wouldn't notice another human being if that human being were on fire.

When I stopped worrying about passing, I started passing. If I'm not passing at least I am confident enough in myself that those around me realize that I am attempting to present as a female and are polite enough to acknowledge and treat me as a woman.

Thank you everyone.  I really do appreciate your thoughts. 

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 12:07:08 PM
I think that's a healthy perspective.  I was talking to my therapist today, and I realize I put everything on hold until I can present the right way.  Even doing things like volunteering at a soup kitchen, which is something I plan on doing frequently in the near future,  I refuse to do at this moment because I'm still a "boy".   And if I want to do charity in the future, I want everyone to meet me as a girl rather than a boy so I don't have to come out.  How weird is that? I have so much that I want to experience, to do or give, and live that I just keep as a dream because I refuse to experience life anymore until I live as female.  While I'm getting closer to that point, it's ridicoulous I shut my life out because of my passing status.  The only thing I really do is work, and now I'm unemployed again, though that's likely just a temp thing and I'll probably be back after the appeal.  I just want to live life, have fun, try new things, and give back to the world.  And rather than staying at home writing poetry on this Saturday, I would like to go on a date and meet new people.  Be a normal girl in this world.  But my  life is tied to my appearance.  If I don't pass, I don't feel comfortable being myself cause I'm sick of having to be a guy.  It's like a curse and a trap.  And if I have to lie to the world about who I am, I don't even want to be in it and rather shut myself out.  That's why passing is important because I want to be able to be myself without feeling so much fear, anxiety and discomfort everywhere I go.  I don't know.

Those of you who are free with your appearance and can live life regardless of appearances are awesome.  Seriously, be proud of yourselves for having that courage.  I wish I could be the same way.  However, passing is important to me, and I feel compelled to put my life on hold until I get to that point.  Good thing is it's getting very close.  In any case, that's why I think it's unhealthy to focus too much on passing.  It hurts you in the end if you make it everything like I had.  this is sort of my warning to those starting out.  Don't let it consume you and don't be like LTL. 

Thanks everyone for your feedback.  I'm doing some important introspection that I've needed to do.  Thanks. 

Looking back at my last post in this thread, I really noticed how sad and empty I really sound.  And it's true, I feel very empty and need to make lifestyle changes other than transitioning.  The more I think about it, as much as I want to transition and doing this is needed, I think I'm ignoring my general issues with depression and anxiety that need to be addressed.  This isn't just about dysphoria, but the desire to have meaning in my life.   Even fully transitioning doesn't guarantee that things will be amazing.   I mean I'll be happy to pass and look female, but I wouldn't be happy if I had no meaning to my life.  Getting all dressed up with nowhere to go isn't my dream (which is really what I'm doing now).  I am a girl and want to live as and look like one, but I want a life too and would miserable if my lifestyle wasn't to change as well. Right now, I really don't have much of a life and that makes me a bit unique.  Other people only had dysphoria.  Many still had meaning and a life in general.  I don't and that's what I want.  For me, dysphoria is only part of the equation.  Right now I'm at a cross roads.  Try all the things I want to experience to fill some of the void,  but should I do it as as a fake boy before I pass?  Not possible for me as I can't be a boy anymore.   I can't keep doing this to myself.  Yet if I keep waiting until I pass, I will feel empty with my life while I'm waiting.  There is a reason I'm miserable and that's my own fault.  Maybe I should just take an antidepressant like my therapist suggests.  I don;t know. 

Thanks everyone for your input.  You've given me much to think about and it's really seeping in.  Maybe I'm just breaking down.

Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 10:00:35 AM
Well I don't want to say I do or do not pass because I don't pass I live.

This went straight to my dome. Heather, are you a motivational speaker/writer and you just haven't told us?

Quote from: TiffanyT on April 26, 2014, 03:26:31 PM
Honestly, I'm starting to not really care so long as I'm not in a dangerous situation.

This is how I've always felt. And when I didn't pass at all (unless it was a dark room at night) I just avoided dangerous situations- which I do anyway by default. I've always been out to everyone in my life, even people I don't know so well.

As time went on I did become more passable, but I have a large group of friends and everyone has seen my transition.. so I'll never be stealth and I don't care at all. There is no sense in trying to hide any part of who I am to anyone anyway (unless it could mean danger of course). There is so much more to life than the way one looks.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 04:48:32 PM
Thank you everyone.  I really do appreciate your thoughts. 


Looking back at my last post in this thread, I really noticed how sad and empty I really sound.  And it's true, I feel very empty and need to make lifestyle changes other than transitioning.  The more I think about it, as much as I want to transition and doing this is needed, I think I'm ignoring my general issues with depression and anxiety that need to be addressed.  This isn't just about dysphoria, but the desire to have meaning in my life.   Even fully transitioning doesn't guarantee that things will be amazing.   I mean I'll be happy to pass and look female, but I wouldn't be happy if I had no meaning to my life.  Getting all dressed up with nowhere to go isn't my dream (which is really what I'm doing now).  I am a girl and want to live as and look like one, but I want a life too and would miserable if my lifestyle wasn't to change as well. Right now, I really don't have much of a life and that makes me a bit unique.  Other people only had dysphoria.  Many still had meaning and a life in general.  I don't and that's what I want.  For me, dysphoria is only part of the equation.  Right now I'm at a cross roads.  Try all the things I want to experience to fill some of the void,  but should I do it as as a fake boy before I pass?  Not possible for me as I can't be a boy anymore.   I can't keep doing this to myself.  Yet if I keep waiting until I pass, I will feel empty with my life while I'm waiting.  There is a reason I'm miserable and that's my own fault.  Maybe I should just take an antidepressant like my therapist suggests.  I don;t know. 

Thanks everyone for your input.  You've given me much to think about and it's really seeping in.  Maybe I'm just breaking down.

LTL, I wouldn't worry about it or dwell on it too much. That can turn into a dicey situation where you feel backed up or trapped. Maybe it is okay to admit that right now your meaning in life is becoming yourself as you feel others are supposed to see you? Transition is a very life-encompassing kind of thing. It wasn't until I had been full time for almost a year before I was able to relax and rethink my life goals. Sometimes, you just have to do you. There's nothing wrong with that.

If you feel a block, then it is either time to look for a second kind of approach or to buckle down with determination. I am sure you will do what is right for you, and I think bouncing ideas like this around is the perfect way to figure it out. It is also what we are here for

Thanks Jenny,

I just feel very empty in life right now.  I don't know how to explain it, but I don't like feeling void of meaning or any substance.  However, I don't let myself do anything that I'd like to do in life or fill that gap, all because I don't pass and I refuse to try things as a guy.  I'm just done being a guy, yet I'm not ready or passing enough to be a girl.  So how do I close this meaning gap and loneliness that I feel?  I have no idea.  Truthfully, my life is very empty, but I've been waiting to pass and live as female before trying to fill it with any meaning or substance that I want.  Ignored me, I'm just being emotional tonight.   

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 05:18:49 PM
So how do I close this meaning gap and loneliness that I feel?  I have no idea.  Truthfully, my life is very empty, but I've been waiting to pass and live as female before trying to fill it with any meaning or substance that I want.  Ignored me, I'm just being emotional tonight.   

Don't worry about it, and sorry I'm not going to ignore you (not sorry)

Everyone has a different process for solving problems of all kinds, but one thing remains true for everyone- one step at a time! Whether you would like to come from the practiced standpoint (building up your confidence in private) or the experiential version (learning by doing), they are both solid ways to go about it. If you're feeling depressed or over/underwhelmed, maybe it's time for a change of pace? A step outside of the comfort zone?

Thanks Jenny.  I want to apologize to everyone.  I'm just very emotional at the moment and was crying about stuff. It's just getting harder rather than easier with my transition.  I was hoping to have already been living my life at a girl at this point, but I'm still not doing that because I don't pass and would look like a fool.  If I'm seen as a guy, I don't feel comfortable trying to pass and live like a girl.  I guess I'm tired of hiding myself and avoiding other people.  For all the transition stuff I've been doing, I haven't gotten out much and start creating my life as female.  And I don't know, but I'm feeling a bit loney and fragile tonight.  I mean it's a saturday night.  I should be out doing something or on a date.  Not avoiding other people because I feel I look like a freak.   That only makes me feel lonely.  But I don't know how to get passed all of this without having the ability to pass or be taken seriously as a girl.

Quote from: Jennygirl on April 26, 2014, 05:02:12 PM
This went straight to my dome. Heather, are you a motivational speaker/writer and you just haven't told us?

Lol no Jenny I'm not I'm just a woman who realized in order to be happy I had to stop worrying how others viewed me. And started worrying about how I view myself. If you concentrate to much on passing it can make your life quite miserable and make you nit pick every little feature. That's why I just live and don't worry about passing so much.

LTL, what you are talking about going through mirrors so much of my first attempt at transition it's uncanny. Admittedly it's also a bit scary for me to be faced with that, part of me wants to grab you and shake you until you realise passability is within your reach if you can believe it - but only because that's exactly what I'd do to 25 year old me if I ever got the chance. I'd also hug young me, take young me clothes shopping, show young me some passing tips and get me pull my head out of my @$$, stop living in fear and start living my life as a woman. Of course I wouldn't be so blunt with you...although I'd love to go shopping with you!

We all have to get where we're going at our own speed and I think you are being eminently sensible, you need to do what is right and safe for you. My concern is that the overtly cautious approach is also making you feel pretty damn miserable, something young me also put myself through because of fear rather than prudence. The number of times I spent crying myself to sleep and feeling lonely, it wasn't fun but was largely self inflicted. I know you say you have no intention of bailing on your transition, great, I just hope you don't get to the other side, realise some of the fear was for naught, wonder why you waited so long and give yourself a hard time about it...something older me has been dealing with.

I hope this doesn't seem harsh, i want to see you happy and I just sense we're both pretty good at beating ourselves up about our actions or lack thereof. Sometimes having inner strength, being spontaneous, taking the leap of faith is so much better than overthinking everything. Something else I would also love to tell young me.

By the way everyone, I want to apologize.  I don't like to get teary and emotional, but I'm just sort of at a loss as to how to get over this.  I just want to finally be happy and actually live and be a 25 year old girl rather than dreaming or fantasizing that I am (I mean yeah I am but only on the inside).  Still I shouldn't be crying all over this forum and let my depression out like I do.  I try to be a positive aspect of this forum, but my own negativity and drama always comes to surface.  I'm sorry everyone. 

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:16:31 PM
By the way everyone, I want to apologize.  I don't like to get teary and emotional, but I'm just sort of at a loss as to how to get over this.  I just want to finally be happy and actually live and be a 25 year old girl rather than dreaming or fantasizing that I am (I mean yeah I am but only on the inside).  Still I shouldn't be crying all over this forum and let my depression out like I do.  I try to be a positive aspect of this forum, but my own negativity and drama always comes to surface.  I'm sorry everyone.

You don't need to apologize for getting emotional I'm on hrt too I understand. The truth is all we can do is show you the door your the one who has to walk through it. I believe in you I think you have more potential than you realize and you can get past this hurdle.

Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 06:22:37 PM
You don't need to apologize for getting emotional I'm on hrt too I understand. The truth is all we can do is show you the door your the one who has to walk through it. I believe in you I think you have more potential than you realize and you can get past this hurdle.

Thank you Heather.  I just don't like bringing everyone else down with me.  I just can't help it and I start crying and feeling empty.  I just can't wait for gender to be background noise.  To be just be a girl and that's it.  Then I could focus on my life and trying to fill it with some meaning.  I'm just really uncertain how to get myself through that door.  And all the tears I shed or fantasizing about the life that could be isn't doing me much good.  It's getting to the point where it needs to become real.   but again, I am sorry.  I really try to be positive and helpful here, but I drag everyone down with me. 

Maybe talk to your endo about your dosage or delivery method. I know I was a bit of an emotional wreck back in the early 1990s - some of that was just me but I'm pretty sure some of it could be sheeted home to my HRT. My current endo has confirmed as much. I was on orals and injections (primogen depot, can't remember how frequently) and wow, what a roller coaster. To be honest, repeating that experience was a fear I had going into transition again but this time it's different orals and a sub dermal E pellet and I feel remarkably calm most of the time. If you feel your emotional state seems overly erratic it's possible getting the endo to tweak the treatment might help. Just a thought.

Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 06:22:37 PM
You don't need to apologize for getting emotional I'm on hrt too I understand. The truth is all we can do is show you the door your the one who has to walk through it. I believe in you I think you have more potential than you realize and you can get past this hurdle.

Agreed.

It's not the hrt.  I've always been a very very emotional person.  It's just who I am.  I'm the sort of girl that will cry over a commercial and stuff.  Even one of my sister would always remark that I'm emotional like a girl, lol, and she even stated that as one of the reaons she wasn't surprised.  In any case, I do think I shoud consider an anti-depressant medication.  I think I need it, but I don't want to lose my emotions.  Even if I don't like feeling a lot of the times, it's what makes me the person I am.  It's why I can easily sympathize and empathize with others.  It's something that's important to me even if it's too intense at times.  Yeah, I'm crazy, I know, but that' a part of me.

Besides it took me a while to get the right dose.  I'm not going to a lesser one because it's taken forever for me to get effects.  And I can't change the method as oral is the only way for me to go. 

I'll be okay.  I just need to get some rest and stop crying a bit over my drama.

You're not dragging everyone down sweetie. Being on the other side and not really having to worry about passing - I can only offer this: transition does not make you happy.
Passing does not make you happy. Even being a pretty, young woman who can get any guy she wants does not make you happy.
Transition only eases some of the pain. Passing does probably make life easier in some respects. Being a pretty young female is its own curse. None of this will make you happy. It may ease some pain. But you will still be you with all the baggage from your former life.
I thought transition would make me happy. It didn't. It just removed the dysphoria. But underneath that, I was still the same me with all the grief and baggage. I hope you are luckier than me and it doesn't take 7 odd years post-transition to finally start to heal. Start now and maybe transition won't be this to you as it is to me (Okay, I admit I just wanted an excuse to play this song but still):



I was around your age when I started this journey. If you are empty and unhappy, you still will be afterwards. The inner work is more important than the outer work. That's why there are women here who don't pass or are known as trans and perfectly fine with it.

Well, I've always hoped that it will make me more free to be myself live the life I want.  It may not solve everything, but I think that's true.  Like  want to date and stuff, but feel weird doing it as a boy.  I want to do charity work cause that stuffmmakes me feel better, but i feel unable to start as a boy.  Whatever groups I join I want them to only know me as a girl.  I don't want to come out then continue being in that group.  Much of this is about needed social interaction and lifestyle changes, but these things can only change after I present as female because I feel awkward and uncomfortable pressening as male.  Its so fake, uncomfortable and depressing.

And I should note the dysphoria is very bad and makes me revert into a shell.  It sucks in general too cause I don't want to look this way and it makes living hard.  I just feel so much because of dysphoria as a guy and hate looking the way I do, but it's also hard when it cripples you and forces you to a life of solitude where you can't interact with others.  I hate looking this way and it makes me cry whenever I try with other people.  Its so fake.  But it gets very lonely.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 07:07:03 PM
Well, I've always hoped that it will make me more free to be myself live the life I want.  It may not solve everything, but I think that's true.  Like  want to date and stuff, but feel weird doing it as a boy.  I want to do charity work cause that stuffmmakes me feel better, but i feel unable to start as a boy.  Whatever groups I join I want them to only know me as a girl.  I don't want to come out then continue being in that group.  Much of this is about needed social interaction and lifestyle changes, but these things can only change after I present as female because I feel awkward and uncomfortable pressening as male.  Its so fake, uncomfortable and depressing.

I felt that way too. And once I started passing, I felt more comfortable for about a minute. Then I started getting paranoid because everyone thought I had something I didn't. It just created new insecurities.
I'm just afraid you're putting so much focus on the physical stuff (like I did), you're going to be disillusioned once you get it.
Now, I'm not trying to come down on you. I care about you a lot and want to help. I don't know your history or full situation. But if you don't already have this whole social thing going on... and if you have had problems finding love... these things are not going to change just because your appearance does. If you're insecure now, you probably will be doubly so as a girl (and especially, a trans girl). Not trying to scare you. I hope that you can learn from my mistakes and you can be happier sooner than I am. And I'm somebody who was relatively confident and had no problems finding partners in my former incarnation.

Basically, maybe being trans is responsible for most of what's going on with you. But transition alone doesn't erase that. You are probably not very social because you're trans. You probably have romantic issues because you are trans. But it won't fix it hon.