Megan's blog may hold some insights for those in the US at least.  The unfortunate back and forth here shouldn't discount the experience.

http://meganwallent.com/

In my experience, being fully stealth but not very feminine, I think it may well protect you more to be out.  I suffered some pretty blatant bias from people who would never say why, that I am pretty sure I would not have seen if I were male.  I guess it depends on the company... One hint may be that if they have same sex insurance they are probably open to a broader discussion of trans issues than if they don't (IMHO)

Quote from: Greeneyedrebel on April 07, 2014, 02:23:17 PM
Does anyone have any tips for the conservative corporation?

Make yourself an indispensable/irreplaceable asset to the company.  Find allies in management & HR (your boss and as high as you can get).  Research your state's laws and the company's employment policies. Find out what rights and power you have to protect yourself.  Be very subtle and conservative about how you go about presenting yourself even as you come out. 

QuoteOr perhaps I should rethink that "Get out of Dodge as soon as I finish grad school" idea.

There is that too.

I've help start 3 businesses, owned 4 businesses. I work for a medium sized international corporation, I report to a conservitive vice president, to give you an idea about how conservative he is, he doesn't even drink tea because it has caffeine. In my defense, I reported to the VP that came before him.

My strategy is to keep it "stealth" until either I find a better business to work for or my next business can fully support me. I'm working on 2 business plans as I type/drink (Moscato Bella). Thats what I do every night - not drink wine, but work on my business plans.

Thats not really a strategy to transition in a corporation but I'm also intelligent enough to understand probability and know that corporate culture is not likely to change. I hope your company is much more liberal than mine.

Quick questions, any entrepreneurs out there?

Quote from: Greeneyedrebel on April 07, 2014, 02:23:17 PM
Does anyone have any tips for the conservative corporation?

Be as versatile as you can know every aspect of every job in each department inside and out.  Work 10x harder then everyone else.  You may find this limits your promotional prospects (If they get promoted who is going to do the work they did). This also works in your favor two ways,  short of you seriously screwing up they will be reluctant to fire you. (Knowledge is power and they will have to replace and train what you know). Second your building up your knowledge and should be building up an external network so you can get out of Dodge to a more friendly work environment.

Quote from: JamesG on April 29, 2014, 02:44:00 PM
Make yourself an indispensable/irreplaceable asset to the company.  Find allies in management & HR (your boss and as high as you can get).  Research your state's laws and the company's employment policies. Find out what rights and power you have to protect yourself.  Be very subtle and conservative about how you go about presenting yourself even as you come out. 

There is that too.

Small side note.....in High School one of my friends refused...as it flat out would not ever...to call me by my birth name. She insisted on calling me "James", saying it fit me much better than any other name she could think of. I should have taken that at some sort of clue I think... (Prompted by the profile comment "A girl called James")

The diversity policy here is currently horrid...and has not been reviewed since 2006. But I am working on finding allies and making changes in a subtle way, then building on those.

On the positive note, my job is moving from being under "Mr. I'm stuck in the 50's" to reporting to a really cool guy with lots of west coast influence. He complimented my shirt/tie combo yesterday even.

Getting out of Dodge will remain the back up plan, but I'm taking it all slow and steady.

It's Corporate Training/IT....so we are assumed to be a bit different anyway....lol

Quote from: Kova V on May 01, 2014, 10:09:59 PM
Quick questions, any entrepreneurs out there?

Hiya Kova... yes, one here, nail varnish dried and ready for action lol     

I started a tech company with some friends when I was in my 20s, then a couple more in my 30s.  I really miss the buzz and excitement of a starup, but I cannot say I miss the stress of trying to ensure that the income comes in!   Also, the opportunities for networking inside a multinational are unsurpassed.

But yeah, some days I would love to start another venture!

xxx
Julia

We all have our unique circomstances but I started my transition on the job (as an executive manager in a medium sized international business)  believing I had the full support of my boss, the CEO of the company. Even now, I believe he was sincere at the time (last July).

However, no matter how much official support you have one thing you have little control over is how other people react.  Actually I think the real issue is that most people actually have little control over how they react either. Conciously they may be telling themselves one thing but unconsciously their brain is telling them something very different ie. most people who practise discrimination are in total denial on the subject, especially well educated people who think they are completely above it all. The Americains here are probably familiar with the line from the book, To Kill a Mocking Bird,  which sums it up so well "People generally see what they look for, and hear what they listen for..."

Anyway, immediately following the green light from my boss, I came out one to one to all of my colleagues on the company management team, all males bar one, getting mostly neutral reactions. Just one person told me outright that he thought he would never be able to see me as a woman.

As my company wanted me to have my Civil Identity Change done and dusted before coming out officially and transitioning on the job, I filed for the change last Sept, continuing to present as a very androgenous male through to the end of the year. The public prosecutor gave the green light for the change last Nov but since then, the court has repeatedly failed to set a date for the final hearing so I still have no idea when it will finally  come through.

Meanwhile, life in the company continued but I noticed a real degradation in my relationships with my colleagues on the Management Team from Sept onwards (not anyone else though) , to the extent that by the end of the year, it was getting increasingly difficult to function properly in an already very demanding environment.

I could see all of this happening and suggested to my boss that we bring in a mediator to get to the heart of what was going on. He unfortunately refused , considering that any problems encountered were for me to resolve.  So without specific action to try sort out the issues,  things just continued to get worse until I was told a few weeks ago that my mission would come to an end in July once my fixed term contract comes to an end. (N.B. It had always been understood that this fixed term contract would eventually become an open ended contract)

I took a very hard hit at the time as I had put everything into this job but have recovered quite a bit since and am now turning my attention to creating my own business, hopefully with my present employers as my first customers.

On the positive side, I finally transitioned on the job without my CIC as I was male failing far too often, creating awkward situations for everyone concerned .  I also basically said to myself that I may as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb  so, with little left to lose, I forced the issue a bit. 

To the credit of my employers, my bio on the corporate web site, including my photo, is now 100% feminized and after about 3 months to get used to the change, even the slowest of my colleagues is now on board, at least regarding the use of my name...

More than anything, in this pretty painful and potentially dramatic situation (I'm also getting a bit old.. ) , I remembered some stuff I had taken on board(from Tony Robbins)  a few years ago when I was working as a business coach. Life doesn't always work out the way we want ie. according to our blueprint.  In such situations, to get your life back on track you have two choices, change your environment or change the blueprint. I don't have the power to change my environment so rather than fighting against windmills, I think it is wiser to change the blueprint, taking as many positives as I can from my existing circomstances ie. creat my own business with the support of my present employers whom, after a bit of a crisis,  I will finally most likely quit on fairly good terms.

For those facing similar situations, I found a fairly good article on the web which goes through the thinking http://sourcesofinsight.com/tony-robbins-on-what-to-do-when-life-doesnt-work-out-like-you-planned/

Hugs and  best of luck to all of you!
Donna









   

Quote from: Donna E on May 02, 2014, 09:13:34 AM
I don't have the power to change my environment so rather than fighting against windmills, I think it is wiser to change the blueprint, taking as many positives as I can from my existing circomstances ie. creat my own business with the support of my present employers whom, after a bit of a crisis,  I will finally most likely quit on fairly good terms.

For those facing similar situations, I found a fairly good article on the web which goes through the thinking http://sourcesofinsight.com/tony-robbins-on-what-to-do-when-life-doesnt-work-out-like-you-planned/

Establishing your own independent company will not be easy, but it will hopefully give you more freedom and happiness. If I have to deal with so many diverse people and their prejudices, I would choose a similar path.

barbie~~

Hi Donna

You and I have already talked off-line about the sad and pathetic way the directors in your company have reacted.

I really wonder what makes people react to us as they do, by which I mean the visceral versus the intellectual and the fight between the two.  I don't want to go off on some psychological route-march, nor extrapolate from thin personal data, but what **is** it that makes people accept us or not?  How much of this has to do with the type of relationship we have with them and how much with the way we present?

I will definitely publish my coming-out-at-work story here as it evolves.  So far it's been positive (one immediate colleague who is thrilled, two partners, and our in-house medic), but I'm still some months away from making the change.

So, then, my experience can only or mostly relate to people in my social world, and here I have been astounded.  The girls pretty much included me as one of them instantly; the boys are all accepting but some misgender me and then correct themselves.  But what has made them so accepting?  Is it because people in Spain operate in a live-and-let-live mindset, or because I have been fortunate with my friends?   And can I extrapolate from the 3 work colleagues who "think I look better as a girl" to how it will be when I am operating in the company as a girl?   

I also don't know how and to what extend that fact that many people in my company know me as gay will help or not.  Donna pointed out to me that being gay is basically a private matter once people know the basics, whereas changing gender is very very public, and she is totally correct.  But in the social break-out at work it's clear that I am more comfortable talking girl stuff than boy stuff.  So, will this work in my favour in people's minds - i.e. resolving the contradiction of the "girly boy" who is now a "proper" girl?  I truly don't know!!

Any insight here from y'all would be most interesting.   Sorry for the mini psychological route-march 

Ciao
Julia

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on May 03, 2014, 02:30:55 AM
I also don't know how and to what extend that fact that many people in my company know me as gay will help or not.  Donna pointed out to me that being gay is basically a private matter once people know the basics, whereas changing gender is very very public, and she is totally correct.  But in the social break-out at work it's clear that I am more comfortable talking girl stuff than boy stuff.  So, will this work in my favour in people's minds - i.e. resolving the contradiction of the "girly boy" who is now a "proper" girl?  I truly don't know!!

I don't know if I was considered to be gay at work, I mentioned every now and then that I had in fact had girlfriends (all two of them) but I was never very blokey so I'm not sure what people thought.

My relationship with the women at work has hardly changed since my transition, we chat just as before about a range of stuff... definitely it is now more personal and there are more girly topics (clothes, boots, shopping) and certainly some things which have been discussed probably never would have been had I been presenting as a dude (or example, one woman telling me why she loathed the word c### (when used as an insult) because "that part of the body" is such an integral part of pleasure and intimacy it was offensive that someone would use it to denigrate someone). That was different! I certainly feel comfortable talking with the women at work and it seems they do me - seems I've blended in well and have largely become one of the girls. One thing is that I'm now being complimented on my clothes (and I'm able to give out compliments) - which never happened before, and I don't have to worry that if I'm being friendly it's not going to be misinterpreted as me coming on to someone. (This is true, has happened to me so much over the years since university, every time I got friendly and chatty with a woman people started gossiping.)

There aren't many men at work, there has been a subtle shift in the way they relate to me, not a bad shift, but I can't put a finger on what it is.

There are some new people starting over the next month or so, it'll be interesting to see how they relate to me.

when I lived in Thailand, I worked with a well-known European airlines, I started as a (gay) boy (been on HRT for many years before that job , grown breasts so I had to wrap my breasts, cut my hair short) and i got promoted to be a senior (everyone knew that I was very fem) and came out to my boss that i wanted to wear girl uniform .. she agreed and everyone accepted me very well .. i think because in our company, there was a senior instructor who was transgirl , thats why everyone was ok with me being a girl

but here in Australia, local airlines refused to give me a job because i was trans (happened long time ago, went for job interview in 2008)

Hi,
In think my experience with the women at work is very similar to what others here are saying, generally very positive. I chat far more with them than before, there were no issues about using the ladies bathroom and I now mostly take lunch with my female colleagues why are a very small minority of this 90% male engineering company.

The latter point certainly has a bearing on my experience and I can actually understand why a trans woman represents more of a challenge to the established order in such an environment than in a more female environment.

For starters, as a trans woman, you are a renegade, doing something that it really difficult for your average guy to understand.  I'm also inclined to believe that in such a predominately male environment, thinking has to be more sexist than in a more balanced environment. I can certify that the language definitely is, scoring very low on political correctness. 

Lastly, for a guy who has know you before as a "normal" guy,(I'm married and have kids)  you will never ever be a woman like another and since in this part of the world et least, a woman colleague is first a woman and then a colleague, that does creat a certain awkwardness. No doubt, if we had been left with enough time, some of the necessary re-adjustments would have happened but as I was on a fixed term contract, it looks like they preferred to cut their losses and take the easy way out.

I can actually understand all of this and that is why I finally prefer not to get into a conflict and focus my energy on taking whatever positives I can away from the experience. As it happens, the difficulties I have encountered have been almost exclusively with my colleagues in the the senior management team. Otherwise, with pretty well all the people I work with day, mostly guys too, there have been no significant issues and since the news came out that I am being terminated, I have had numerous expressions of recognition and thanks for my contribution over the last 15 months. This is also why I finally prefer to finish on a positive note as possible, so that people mostly remember me as a very competent and forward looking manager who focused on the positives and created a can do work environment.

Hugs
Donna

P.S. Barbie. I already had my own business for 6 years so, while I am aware of the challenges, going my own way again is not something that I'm scared of per se.  I will however miss the intensive team work that was so much a feature of my present position. 

Quote from: DianaVV on May 03, 2014, 03:15:51 AM
when I lived in Thailand, I worked with a well-known European airlines, I started as a (gay) boy (been on HRT for many years before that job , grown breasts so I had to wrap my breasts, cut my hair short) and i got promoted to be a senior (everyone knew that I was very fem) and came out to my boss that i wanted to wear girl uniform .. she agreed and everyone accepted me very well .. i think because in our company, there was a senior instructor who was transgirl , thats why everyone was ok with me being a girl

but here in Australia, local airlines refused to give me a job because i was trans (happened long time ago, went for job interview in 2008)

Hi. Might that well-known European airline be Air France?  I ask the question as there is a well know case of an Air France steward (Andréa Colliaux) who transitioned and who was much talked about at the time. If I remember correctly, she may even have written a book about her experience.

Quote from: DianaVV on May 03, 2014, 03:15:51 AM
but here in Australia, local airlines refused to give me a job because i was trans (happened long time ago, went for job interview in 2008)

If that was for an Australian airlines I would have thought that would have broken an anti-discrimation rule or three.

Quote from: Donna E on May 03, 2014, 04:08:27 AM
Hi. Might that well-known European airline be Air France?  I ask the question as there is a well know case of an Air France steward (Andréa Colliaux) who transitioned and who was much talked about at the time. If I remember correctly, she may even have written a book about her experience.

Hi - yes, her blog is here:  http://andreacolliaux.canalblog.com/

I've had a quick look and it seems from the front page disclaimers that she's had to defend herself from a lot of crazies and ignorants.  Sigh! 

I know several TG woman working for australian airlines. From pilots to hostesses. It should not be a problem anymore

Hi Everyone

A brief update:  today I spoke to Human Resouces in my company, well, the Spanish arm of it anyhow.  Unsurprisingly, there are no case studies or directives on how to act in the case of someone wishing to change gender, but HR fully supports the right of the employee to pursue this as long as it does not impact on her ability to do her job. 

That at least is the theory.  So HR will help me verify what our health insurance company can or cannot do for me; they will assist with any conflict resolution if this is necessary; and of course any documentational changes when these are needed.

So far so good.  Now to speak to the three managers with whom I work.... Any idea of how many IQ points I shall need to lose on the day I report to work as a girl?  (Hint, it's an engineering company....)

I provided them a detailed roadmap based on the invaluable advice you have given so kindly in this thread.  Happy to share it if anyone wants it.

Hugs to y'all
Julia

Keep us posted okay? 

I have not actually informed anyone about my transition yet...I am still waiting for the appointment with an Endo for T etc, in part to help sketch out a timeline for that.

However, I am dressing more and more male (including ties, more masculine haircut, dropping all pretense of attempting to wear "neutral" pants and whipping out my dress pants/vests from the nice Men's stores.

Funny thing.....the more I seem to present as male, the more positive my work experience gets. Projects and opportunities coming my way, my input being sought on all sorts of things. I am suddenly MUCH more visible and in the loop.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on May 12, 2014, 12:04:35 PM
Hi Everyone

So far so good.  Now to speak to the three managers with whom I work.... Any idea of how many IQ points I shall need to lose on the day I report to work as a girl?  (Hint, it's an engineering company....)
Hugs to y'all
Julia

Now that is a sexist sterotype an totaly inappropriate. Anyway as someone who has worn the crown and worked under people before,trust me you only lose IQ points when you get promoted, it is natures way of making sure actual productive work gets done. (Sorry workplace humor but how many of us have wanted to strangle our supervisors or someone in management. I'm the 2nd in charge at my work by the way).

Good luck Julia keep us informed