I know that I couldn't have transitioned because I just wasn't ready. I first had to experience a long, long arc of desperation and spend a couple of decades spiraling in on myself until transition was simply unavoidable. In addition, I would likely have been rejected by the establishment and not even been allowed to transition. My biggest obstacle, of course, would have been my gayness: For a long time, there was "no such thing" as a gay trans man. I could have covered up my one episode of child molestation, and I could honestly tell a skeptical therapist that I wanted a penis (I just didn't want the bottom surgeries that were available at the time). But there was no way to cover up my long-term relationships with men or my extreme preference for men or my own perception of myself as a gay man.

All the same, I did have certain periods during which, if I'd had the knowledge and the appropriate funds, transition would have been easier to accomplish--times when I was between jobs or between phases in my life. But, looking back, I just don't see transition as a viable possibility in, say, high school (no way!) or 1983-84 or even 1989-90.

I turned 28 in 1990. By then, I had gone through most of my big adventures except for finishing my undergrad education and going to grad school. I had left my parents' house and essentially cut them off. I had run out of money and been pretty desperate. I had had health problems and was just starting to get them under reasonable control. I had been in several relationships with men, had a number of one-offs with women, lived in a triad relationship for quite some time, and done the local swing party circuit; I was pretty popular at those parties even though I never saw myself as attractive. I had a nice body and a great rack. Someone, and often a handful of men, always wanted to sleep with me, and I could have had a lot more sex if I'd been so inclined.

The thing is, some of that time was...not a waste but not particularly productive, either. I couldn't transition because I lacked the self-confidence and conviction (and I didn't know I could transition until 1988-89). But I was unhappy in certain profound ways. It was kind of a chicken-and-egg situation; as a girl, I would never have the kind of confidence I needed to transition, but I couldn't attain that kind of assertiveness until I lived as a man. In a lot of ways, my sexual exploits were just my frantic way of trying to find myself. I didn't really enjoy sex with strangers although I'm glad I experimented. The three-way was doomed from the start although I didn't know it.

BUT my last relationship, which existed only after I initially came out to myself, I honestly would not trade even though I was often so messed up while I was with my ex. I sometimes wish I had transitioned in 1997-98 (I had a great opportunity and ample funds). But my relationship was amazing. I didn't think I could be happily monogamous, and that relationship taught me that I could. I didn't realize I could love someone so fiercely and for so long, but I did. Perhaps because he knew what I was and accepted it to an extent, I was often able to be happy. Not all the way through; my "happiness" was more like a chocolate coating that wore thin at times and revealed an unhappy core. Yet it was there. If I had transitioned too early, I would have missed out on that.

In a perfect world I would have transitioned at age 12 when I could first feel the unpleasant effects of testosterone.  I could have taken HRT then and had surgery prior to college, and all my problems would have been solved, right?  1987 was a great time to be a trans chick in college.  Not!

Instead I lived with untreated gender dysphoria until it became life-threatening.  I really needed to transition in order to survive. 

A successful transition is one where you end up in a better place than when you started.  Unsuccessful transitions unfortunately too often lead to an early grave.  If I had tried to do it before I had the means, my transition might not have been successful and I might not have lived to type this.

Because I waited until I could afford to do it right and no longer need a job to survive, I am now guaranteed a successful transition.  I may not be young, but at least I'm still here.

Reading Janet Mock's book was a real eye-opener.  I don't know if I could have done what she did in order to transition successfully at 18, which in retrospect is something I probably would have had to resort to if I had transitioned in my teens. 

I didn't do it too early, nor too late and I was rewarded with a happy life.

Nailed it!

... because I wasn't ready yet. And because if I had transitioned when I originally wanted to (at age 19) I would most likely never have had my children.

As difficult (and downright heartbreaking) as it has been to live this way, I'm one of the very few people who have been privileged enough to experience more than one way of life. I spent many years trying (and ultimately failing) to live as a straight female, and this earned me certain privileges such as marriage, childbearing, childrearing and the sort of public invisibility that comes from people presuming me to be cishet.

After doing all that, I've had the privilege of starting all over again as a gay man, which gives me some other privileges and some new disadvantages, including trying to figure out how to date in an environment I've never actually been exposed to because I spent so long living in a safe little heteronormative bubble.

It's not easy to adjust to so many changes. But I wouldn't trade it for anything, and I doubt 19-year-old me would've had what it takes to do what I'm doing now.

Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 12:59:12 AM
It really makes sense if you could be het and cis though... man, they get so much privilege. I mean even most MTFs here had their marriages pre transition, that's why I don't get why they envy younger transitioners, so much privilege, gah. Being a young transitioner, there's really nothing great about it. I don't know a pretty, passable young transitioner who isn't getting really or really really behind on at least a few aspects of their life. It's like having a freaking baby or something. It's all this crazy responsibility only to be more rejectable. I was trying to figure out what kind of guys I can safely date lately and it's like, wow, yeah, how am I supposed to know? Browsing like trans dating sites, all I see in common is being kinda douchebaggy. I just don't know. When I'm just living life, there are all these guys around, all interested in me, and I don't think I could do anything with most of them, cuz they'd freak. Even being really pretty just isn't enough unless you're willing to hook up with ->-bleeped-<-s. If I had to deal with dysphoria or whatever to have that privilege for a lot of my life, I'm sure I would too.   

Yeah, I do think the benefits of being a younger transitioner, while real, are sometimes inflated.  I'm not quite the youngest having started at 24, but I might as well have been 19 or 20 because so much of my life was and is still in the works other than my college degree.  It's sort of daunting to be at the start of my adult life as a transwoman.  There are pros and cons for both starting early and later.  And yeah, I too look forward to having to deal with ->-bleeped-<-s and sex perverts as the majority of my dating pool.  Yay, lol.  I'll say this though, if you date as a gay guy, you may be in better shape to find someone than as a transwoman.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 01, 2014, 07:25:35 AM

Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 12:59:12 AM
It really makes sense if you could be het and cis though... man, they get so much privilege. I mean even most MTFs here had their marriages pre transition, that's why I don't get why they envy younger transitioners, so much privilege, gah. Being a young transitioner, there's really nothing great about it. I don't know a pretty, passable young transitioner who isn't getting really or really really behind on at least a few aspects of their life. It's like having a freaking baby or something. It's all this crazy responsibility only to be more rejectable. I was trying to figure out what kind of guys I can safely date lately and it's like, wow, yeah, how am I supposed to know? Browsing like trans dating sites, all I see in common is being kinda douchebaggy. I just don't know. When I'm just living life, there are all these guys around, all interested in me, and I don't think I could do anything with most of them, cuz they'd freak. Even being really pretty just isn't enough unless you're willing to hook up with ->-bleeped-<-s. If I had to deal with dysphoria or whatever to have that privilege for a lot of my life, I'm sure I would too.   

Yeah, I do think the benefits of being a younger transitioner, while real, are sometimes inflated.  I'm not quite the youngest having started at 24, but I might as well have been 19 or 20 because so much of my life was and is still in the works other than my college degree.  It's sort of daunting to be at the start of my adult life as a transwoman.  There are pros and cons for both starting early and later.  And yeah, I too look forward to having to deal with ->-bleeped-<-s and sex perverts as the majority of my dating pool.  Yay, lol.  I'll say this though, if you date as a gay guy, you may be in better shape to find someone than as a transwoman.

Sorry, hope I didn't depress anybody.  But I agree that there's a lot younger transitioners miss out on. One of which is the privilege of being 'normal' during sexual development years. And this is amplified if the person in question is straight or perceived to be in their old sex.
Another is having kids, spouse, etc. I didn't, but having kids is huge, even if you didn't get to do it the 'right' way for your gender.

For me, it simply wasn't going to happen.  If, somehow, I managed to clear all the legal and financial hurdles of being a minor without parental consent or support, I doubt I would have been let back in the home.

I won't elaborate too much, but hindsight 20/20 being kicked out of the home for doing it probably would have been a good deal.  Get what I want done early in life and get out of that cult life?  Yes please.

...but, off topic.  Shoulda/woulda/coulda, right?

The reason why I am glad I didn't get it done sooner is because of my kids.  I always wanted biological kids of my own and that would have been lost to me if I would have changed at a young age.  I don't know if the previously mentioned "get out of jail" alternative would have been worth missing out on having chidren.

My wife and I have always said that she should have been the dad, and me the mom because she is most definatly more "masculine" than I am but it didn't work that way.  (I always wanted to be able to get pregnant.)  So, for that very reason she is my Little Seahorse....and little is right because I am 6'0 and she is 4'11 (and 3/4) hahahaha.

Quote from: FA on May 01, 2014, 07:40:59 AM
Yeah, I do think the benefits of being a younger transitioner, while real, are sometimes inflated.  I'm not quite the youngest having started at 24, but I might as well have been 19 or 20 because so much of my life was and is still in the works other than my college degree.  It's sort of daunting to be at the start of my adult life as a transwoman.  There are pros and cons for both starting early and later.  And yeah, I too look forward to having to deal with ->-bleeped-<-s and sex perverts as the majority of my dating pool.  Yay, lol.  I'll say this though, if you date as a gay guy, you may be in better shape to find someone than as a transwoman.


Sorry, hope I didn't depress anybody.  But I agree that there's a lot younger transitioners miss out on. One of which is the privilege of being 'normal' during sexual development years. And this is amplified if the person in question is straight or perceived to be in their old sex.
Another is having kids, spouse, etc. I didn't, but having kids is huge, even if you didn't get to do it the 'right' way for your gender.

You didn't depress me at all.  I'm actually glad for this topic because sometimes I feel people assume younger transgirls have it extremely easy and have it made.  There are pros and cons for all ages and it's important people consider these things.  Maybe you sharing why it was a good decision for you to wait would give someone pause for the right reasons?  All sides she be discussed. 

Personally, I'm okay with not being able to have kids.  Not really, but I doubt it would have been an option for me.  When I was younger, I had to have a surgery in that area (I'd rather leave it at that)  and that probably negated my ability to have kids.  I wish I could have been a mother, but I would never want to "father" kids and have made peace with that fact that is likely wasn't possible.   However, getting married and adopting is something that is very important to me.  And let's face it, the dating world isn't the kindest environment for a straight transwoman that wants a family. 

Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 12:59:12 AM
It really makes sense if you could be het and cis though... man, they get so much privilege. I mean even most MTFs here had their marriages pre transition, that's why I don't get why they envy younger transitioners, so much privilege, gah. Being a young transitioner, there's really nothing great about it. I don't know a pretty, passable young transitioner who isn't getting really or really really behind on at least a few aspects of their life. It's like having a freaking baby or something. It's all this crazy responsibility only to be more rejectable. I was trying to figure out what kind of guys I can safely date lately and it's like, wow, yeah, how am I supposed to know? Browsing like trans dating sites, all I see in common is being kinda douchebaggy. I just don't know. When I'm just living life, there are all these guys around, all interested in me, and I don't think I could do anything with most of them, cuz they'd freak. Even being really pretty just isn't enough unless you're willing to hook up with ->-bleeped-<-s. If I had to deal with dysphoria or whatever to have that privilege for a lot of my life, I'm sure I would too.   

Depends on the experience though, nah? I mean, for me, pre-transition life was years of bullying, dropping out of high school at 17, a couple of suicide attempts, 9 years of cutting, dragging myself through university over 6 years, and one emotionally abusive relationship. There are whole years of my life that I would love to just erase from my brain. The worst though is that I can't really escape it. Even post-transition, I'm still rather screwed up.

But then I guess having done the thing at 26, I'm not really a late transitioner? I don't know. I often feel kind of between worlds. The point for me was 16. I should have come out rather than tried to rip myself to shreds. So it goes.

The sexuality thing is also odd. I mean, I currently live in a body where I could have sex with almost anyone I want. But the very idea of letting someone I don't trust touch me makes my skin crawl. I guess that's from the whole missing the development stage. That and anti-anxiety meds murder my sex drive. Oh well.

The thing is though, that I really haven't a clue what kind of creature I would have been if I'd transitioned that young. I mean, I'm kind of a mess now, but at least I'm functional, alive, I have a wonderful girlfriend. I'm in a pretty good place. What if trying to transition that young had been too much for me, and I wouldn't even be breathing now? Many of us have a tendency to craft an idealized version of ourselves as a younger transitioner. But no guarantees.

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 01, 2014, 10:38:44 AM

Depends on the experience though, nah? I mean, for me, pre-transition life was years of bullying, dropping out of high school at 17, a couple of suicide attempts, 9 years of cutting, dragging myself through university over 6 years, and one emotionally abusive relationship. There are whole years of my life that I would love to just erase from my brain. The worst though is that I can't really escape it. Even post-transition, I'm still rather screwed up.

Me too. Well, not the cutting and stuff. My self-abuse was drugs and drink. But yeah, still trying desperately to heal post-transition.

QuoteBut then I guess having done the thing at 26, I'm not really a late transitioner? I don't know. I often feel kind of between worlds. The point for me was 16. I should have come out rather than tried to rip myself to shreds. So it goes.

Yeah, I'm kind of in the middle too. I get some of what the earlier transitioners are saying and some of the later ones also.

QuoteThe sexuality thing is also odd. I mean, I currently live in a body where I could have sex with almost anyone I want. But the very idea of letting someone I don't trust touch me makes my skin crawl. I guess that's from the whole missing the development stage.

Maybe not. I mean, that actually sounds pretty common for a woman. I was a guy so - I pretty much took full advantage of being in a female body lol
I'd never have been able to do that even as a cis guy. I mean a cis gay guy can walk down the street, but unless he's sure of the neighborhood and who and all that... he can't just see something he wants and go grab it. 

QuoteThe thing is though, that I really haven't a clue what kind of creature I would have been if I'd transitioned that young. I mean, I'm kind of a mess now, but at least I'm functional, alive, I have a wonderful girlfriend. I'm in a pretty good place. What if trying to transition that young had been too much for me, and I wouldn't even be breathing now? Many of us have a tendency to craft an idealized version of ourselves as a younger transitioner. But no guarantees.

That's a good point. I don't do that so much with transition. But everything else. Like who I might have been as a cis guy. Or someone who had their ->-bleeped-<- together at a young age. I never live up to the person I should have been.

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 01, 2014, 10:38:44 AM
Depends on the experience though, nah? I mean, for me, pre-transition life was years of bullying, dropping out of high school at 17, a couple of suicide attempts, 9 years of cutting, dragging myself through university over 6 years, and one emotionally abusive relationship. There are whole years of my life that I would love to just erase from my brain. The worst though is that I can't really escape it. Even post-transition, I'm still rather screwed up.

But then I guess having done the thing at 26, I'm not really a late transitioner? I don't know. I often feel kind of between worlds. The point for me was 16. I should have come out rather than tried to rip myself to shreds. So it goes.

The sexuality thing is also odd. I mean, I currently live in a body where I could have sex with almost anyone I want. But the very idea of letting someone I don't trust touch me makes my skin crawl. I guess that's from the whole missing the development stage. That and anti-anxiety meds murder my sex drive. Oh well.

The thing is though, that I really haven't a clue what kind of creature I would have been if I'd transitioned that young. I mean, I'm kind of a mess now, but at least I'm functional, alive, I have a wonderful girlfriend. I'm in a pretty good place. What if trying to transition that young had been too much for me, and I wouldn't even be breathing now? Many of us have a tendency to craft an idealized version of ourselves as a younger transitioner. But no guarantees.

Nah.... sorry. I think no matter what, it's different, but c'mon, I know you know how it is. There's nothing to say that as a young transitioner you wouldn't have been bullied, dropped out, attempted suicide, cut, taken a long time in university, or been in an emotionally (and maybe physically/sexually) abusive relationship either. Lots of cis girls struggle with all those things. Actually, aside from being bullied, I've experienced pretty much all those things directly related to or worsened by being trans.

Not trying to say it wasn't hard for you, but I don't think it was hard just because you were dealing with dysphoria. Or I mean, I don't think it was harder getting thru cis/het life with dysphoria than young trans life with... maybe less dysphoria. I'm not gonna make myself an example here cuz it's just sad to type it out. I was getting so much better and healing so much from a very bad childhood, then I transitioned, and everything just exploded. I can't believe how bad it was. And I wasn't ever even visibly trans or anything. I still feel ruined really, cuz (sort of) post-transition is not a charming life to me, and the only reason I don't physically detransition is b/c I'm not ready to go thru all that again. I just don't know what's ideal about any of this. I literally feel like I gave up on life. I just don't value my life or my future in a way that I used to, no matter how suicidal or depressed.

Quote from: FA on May 01, 2014, 10:54:49 AMThat's a good point. I don't do that so much with transition. But everything else. Like who I might have been as a cis guy. Or someone who had their ->-bleeped-<- together at a young age. I never live up to the person I should have been.

I don't think it's possible to live up to that person. I look at my sister's life, and to me... She represents everything I was supposed to be before I got so broken. She acquired the moniker "not even 30" in the press, when her first works went up in her late 20s. She's published. Won or nominated for a dozen international awards. Made over 150k last year. And is engaged to a lovely and brilliant guy.

She still feels like she's underachieving. Like she isn't good enough. Still fights endlessly with anxiety and stress. Can still be thrown into a week of depression from a bad review. In some ways, she's less stable than me.

That perfect person is an illusion that we create to torture ourselves. They never could have existed. They just would have been another person struggling in their own way. Better to focus on snatching every shred of happiness you can get your paws on. Better to try to be the best you, and screw that dead ghost that never was.

Quote from: sad panda on May 01, 2014, 11:41:20 AM
Nah.... sorry. I think no matter what, it's different, but c'mon, I know you know how it is. There's nothing to say that as a young transitioner you wouldn't have been bullied, dropped out, attempted suicide, cut, taken a long time in university, or been in an emotionally (and maybe physically/sexually) abusive relationship either. Lots of cis girls struggle with all those things. Actually, aside from being bullied, I've experienced pretty much all those things directly related to or worsened by being trans.

Not trying to say it wasn't hard for you, but I don't think it was hard just because you were dealing with dysphoria. Or I mean, I don't think it was harder getting thru cis/het life with dysphoria than young trans life with... maybe less dysphoria. I'm not gonna make myself an example here cuz it's just sad to type it out. I was getting so much better and healing so much from a very bad childhood, then I transitioned, and everything just exploded. I can't believe how bad it was. And I wasn't ever even visibly trans or anything. I still feel ruined really, cuz (sort of) post-transition is not a charming life to me, and the only reason I don't physically detransition is b/c I'm not ready to go thru all that again. I just don't know what's ideal about any of this. I literally feel like I gave up on life. I just don't value my life or my future in a way that I used to, no matter how suicidal or depressed.

Dude, I'm not saying it was worse or anything like that. I know you've been through hell. I'm just saying... I dunno. It can suck either way, nah? Like I said, I have no idea what I'd have been like if I'd done it sooner. Maybe better, maybe worse. But either way, that's just a ghost of a person that never was. We have to deal with the people we are now. Try to make the best of what we've got, as best we can.

And I value your life and your future.

Quote from: Sarah7 on May 01, 2014, 11:49:49 AM
And I value your life and your future.

Aww. Thank you.

I would like to think this way, I think it's healthier.  When I look back at suffering for decades trying to be somebody I wasn't, I can't say I am grateful for having that life though. I  think about how it drove me inward, how that changed my personality, and prevented me from allowing anybody inside my head, even those that thought they were close to me.  I was a lot of bad that there is no way for me to be thankful for.

However, I think when we talk about wishing we transitioned younger that fantasy is tinted by modern ethos sunglasses.  We forget we were young in the past, when things were very different.   If I had transitioned when I was young, for instance, it would have been in the 90s, when the one out gay kid at my high school (of about 3000 students btw) was beat up until the cops had to come.. for being gay.  And the story on the news was that he was an out of the closet gay boy, not that he was assaulted for it.

Or if I had come out when I was a child, it would have been in the 80s, when I could easily have been institutionalized and tortured by doctors as they tried to "fix" my mental illness.

So I mean, do I wish I had those versions of a past either?   Not really.

The best thing about waiting, especially until I could see that oh yeah I almost died by staying in that role too long!, is that I now have the privilege of no regret and no doubt about transition, and it is very relieving to not carry that burden, cause I think it would have messed with my head.

Quote from: FA on May 01, 2014, 07:40:59 AMBut I agree that there's a lot younger transitioners miss out on. One of which is the privilege of being 'normal' during sexual development years. And this is amplified if the person in question is straight or perceived to be in their old sex.

I think I know what you mean, but although I was SEEN as normal, I didn't FEEL normal, and that was a killer for me.

Obviously, the system and the overall culture were very different twenty and twenty-plus years ago; I rather think that some of today's young transitioners don't lose out on much at all except a lot of heartache and depression and self-loathing. YMMV.

Kia Ora,

I'm not glad I didn't transition earlier and I'm not sad I didn't transition earlier...

I transitioned at the right time of life, a time that suited all my needs...

Wasting precious time worrying about the wouldas shouldas couldas of life, does not change a thing, doing so only lays the foundations for more regrets...

Metta Anatta

I over-analyze things to death. It's true, just ask anyone that knows me. As such, back when I discovered I could be TS sixteen years ago, personal introspection and all, the time wasn't right. With my "successful" transition as evidence that more recently was a better time to transition.
I'm glad beyond belief at where I have arrived.

I look back and I wish I could've gotten to be a hot teenage girl and to grow up as a girl...

But I wouldn't have met the love of my life, either, or made it as far as I did in my career(s), or had the money and stability to get everything I wanted out of transition. (And my father hated that I wasn't a macho boy. HATED it. He would have made my life a living hell, versus having to just suck it up and deal because I'm an adult and don't need his permission.) I genuinely consider myself to have been a cis boy once, though, so I'm a little different from most stories. I didn't have the misery of denied dysphoria for years and years, and when I figured out that I needed to transition, I was in a position in my life where I could just go out and do it right away and as fast as possible.

Quote from: Arch on May 01, 2014, 01:11:44 PM
Obviously, the system and the overall culture were very different twenty and twenty-plus years ago; I rather think that some of today's young transitioners don't lose out on much at all except a lot of heartache and depression and self-loathing. YMMV.

Maybe the exceptionally lucky ones... like, a combination of a well-off, supportive family, strong friendships, living in a good/modern/liberal area in a good country, natural and passable and good access to medical+legal resources, stuff like that. But they have life easier in any pursuit

Overall I think the state of things for young transitioners is pretty atrocious... I'm not saying it's great to be an older transitioner, but the point is that older transitioners were able to have the same privileges as anyone else until they had benefited from them and could support their own transition. And maybe even if it doesn't feel great, there are still some definite advantages to that. It's really hard to get established in life the first time round as a young transitioner, especially I would think as an MTF given the high level of visibility for most of them.

It's a better time to transition young than it has ever been, but it is still the hardest thing I know of that a young person could do.   You are probably right that it is easier in a lot of ways to transition later on in life, but what it does to you.. can be pretty soul-destroying.

I guess I just mean to say that there is no good choice.   If you are born trans, and you aren't born into exceptionally lucky circumstances, life is going to be a doozy.