QuoteLast night, a horrific scene played out at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary as prison officials attempted to carry out the first of what was supposed to have been a double execution.

At 6:23 p.m., the execution began for Clayton Lockett, convicted in 1999 of killing 19-year-old Stephanie Neiman.

Five minutes after a cocktail of lethal drugs was injected, Lockett began shivering, breathing deep, blinking, and gritting his teeth. Seven minutes into the execution, Lockett alerted prison officials that he was still conscious. Ten minutes into the execution, prison officials announced that he was finally unconscious. Thirteen minutes in, Lockett moved his head from side to side and then lifted it off of the bed. Fifteen minutes in, Lockett was mumbling, breathing heavily, and appeared to be struggling. Sixteen minutes in, Lockett said "man" out loud, and tried to get up. Following this, a female prison official told horrified eyewitnesses, "We are going to lower the blinds temporarily." The blinds were never lifted.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/04/30/oklahomas-horrific-botched-execution-cou

As if I needed another reason to end this barbaric, ineffective, and costly practice.

The fact that the State feels it needs any secrecy surrounding it's execution program wails in decibels.

I wonder who goes to jail and gets executed when the State perpetrates the very crime it is out to "punish"?

-AM

If you are going to kill someone as retribution/punishment/and deterrent, it should be as horrible as possible so you maximize it's effectiveness.  Should just go back to hanging. works... most of the time, very cost effective (reuse the rope), and will be much more of a deterrent than "humane" methods.

Quoteit should be as horrible as possible so you maximize it's effectiveness

Yes because our judicial system is perfect and never wrongly convicts.  Because the 8th Amendment should be blithely ignored so we can wet ourselves in the sweet dream of grotesque death, because capital punishment has done so wonderfully in preventing the crimes that warrant it.

-AM

That is a whole different kettle of fish.  Notice I said "IF" you are going to permit state sponsored murder, we might as well get your money's worth.

I know this is a highly emotive topic - so before the discussion heads in that direction I'll just ask people to remain calm, respect people's opinions even if you vehemently disagree with them, avoid angry slanging matches, etc. if your blood starts boiling I'd suggest going to another thread instead of posting here.

I live in a country which thankfully doesn't have the death penalty. Although people clamour for it to be reintroduced from time to time.

Oh! You're no fun.  I wanted to see how many knots I can get into AM's tail. 

Re: Another Botched Execution

Terrible. A disgrace for a supposed civilized nation. I understand the emotions that go into wanting a murderer dead. But that is why it's not up to the victims' families.

I'd vote to let the victims families decide.

My own opinion....hang em high.

Much better than spending tax dollars (my money) keeping the criminal alive behind bars for decades.

Executing people.  I mean, what could go wrong?

Quote from: VickyMI on April 30, 2014, 09:03:42 PM

Much better than spending tax dollars (my money) keeping the criminal alive behind bars for decades.

There are literally hundreds of studies that show lifelong sentences are considerably less costly than death penalty cases.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

I don't see the advantage of capital punishment:

1. It is way more expensive than life sentences.
2. Is irreverseable if the criminal is later found innocent.
3. Is a moral quagmire.
4. Does not deter crime.


What is the advantage? We get to puff our chest out and thump on in a huzzah moment?  Help me out here.

-AM

Quote from: Androgynous_Machine on April 30, 2014, 09:36:35 PM
There are literally hundreds of studies that show lifelong sentences are considerably less costly than death penalty cases.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

I don't see the advantage of capital punishment:

1. It is way more expensive than life sentences.
2. Is irreverseable if the criminal is later found innocent.
3. Is a moral quagmire.
4. Does not deter crime.


What is the advantage? We get to puff our chest out and thump on in a huzzah moment?  Help me out here.

-AM

Exactly my feelings on this.  I can't see the benefit other than the emotional sense that justice is being served.  I get why people may feel this way, but I feel the costs greatly outweigh the potential benefits.   And quite frankly, I think a life in person is a worse fate and greater deterrent than capital punishment, at least, it would be for me.  That's not to say the man in question of this botched execution was a saint.  He was far from it, but we don't have to become like him in order to make sure justice gets served.  Just my opinion. 

It is telling that the USA cannot get the lethal drugs they require for execution as the overseas companies that make them refuse to sell them to the USA for what they consider a barbaric practice. Hence the States wanting to buy them will not say what they are using as the companies then stop future sales.

The two countries that kill the most prisoners are USA and China!

It just seems time that human beings stopped using primitive 'justice' and decided how to tackle the problems behind the crime.

JMO

Quote from: Cindy on May 01, 2014, 12:16:54 AM
It is telling that the USA cannot get the lethal drugs they require for execution as the overseas companies that make them refuse to sell them to the USA for what they consider a barbaric practice. Hence the States wanting to buy them will not say what they are using as the companies then stop future sales.

The two countries that kill the most prisoners are USA and China!

It just seems time that human beings stopped using primitive 'justice' and decided how to tackle the problems behind the crime.

JMO

Agreed. The US as a nation is so behind the times. I can't believe the barbarism that exists in this 'first world nation'.

I can't be supportive of a death penalty when the legal system in the U.S. is so absolutely broken. Unless, of course, you are very rich.

Quote from: Cindy on May 01, 2014, 12:16:54 AM
It is telling that the USA cannot get the lethal drugs they require for execution as the overseas companies that make them refuse to sell them to the USA for what they consider a barbaric practice. Hence the States wanting to buy them will not say what they are using as the companies then stop future sales.

I have a solution for that:

Quote
It just seems time that human beings stopped using primitive 'justice' and decided how to tackle the problems behind the crime.

Some people just need killing.  They can't be deterred or rehabilitated.  What is more cruel? Quickly ending a wasted, destructive life? Or making them suffer through a lifetime of incarceration with all of the indignities and deprivations that brings?

Yes, ideally we would address and fix the underlying socioeconomic problems and physiological conditions that cause most crimes, but since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, you have to face a reality with the only tools we have available.

Quote from: JamesG on May 03, 2014, 11:15:20 AM
I have a solution for that:


Some people just need killing.  They can't be deterred or rehabilitated.  What is more cruel? Quickly ending a wasted, destructive life? Or making them suffer through a lifetime of incarceration with all of the indignities and deprivations that brings?

Yes, ideally we would address and fix the underlying socioeconomic problems and physiological conditions that cause most crimes, but since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, you have to face a reality with the only tools we have available.

I respect your view and political beliefs, but I really have to disagree.   I'd like to believe that everyone can be saved and rehabilitated or at least redeemed in some way.  Maybe they shouldn't be out in society and have sacrificed their freedom, but simply shooting someone just doesn't sit right for me.  It sounds evil.  Besides, I'm pretty certain that violates the 8th amendment as it's currently interpreted by the court.  However, I understand why you feel this way and get the point that you are trying to make despite my personal disagreement. 

Everyone dies. Its only a matter of when and how.

And death by firing squad isn't unconstitutional, its on the books of several states.  It just isn't used much because its considered "uncivilized" by the squeamish, it gives capitol punishment bad PR.

Please don't post entire articles when they are that long. A teaser and a link is all you need.

There are too many wrongful convictions. Even if there weren't, why should the government that is supposedly by, of and for the people be able to kill off it's own citizens?

Quote from: LordKAT on May 03, 2014, 11:01:40 PM
There are too many wrongful convictions.

Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.  KIDDING!

Quote
Even if there weren't, why should the government that is supposedly by, of and for the people be able to kill off it's own citizens?

Self preservation. Because The People want to kill off those that are a danger to them.  The government is simply the instrument that is used (as opposed to lynch mobs).