I wasn't sure if this belonged in "coming out", "christianity", or "sexuality", but given that I need to approach this as trying to make two Christian parents understand, I felt it belonged the most here. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I have a sort of hierarchy in my head of things that my parents don't know about me that they should probably know, in order from "maybe they'll understand this" to "I am literally taking this to my grave"... and sexuality is higher on my list than gender is, because I feel like they'd understand that more readily (and I know more about my sexuality than I do my gender), but I haven't come out to them about ANYTHING yet. So far, all they know is that I am their straight Christian daughter (although I wouldn't be surprised if they had some kind of suspicion that something is going on) who is dating a cisgender man, is pretty open about my support of LGBT* rights, and is studying to become a counselor in gay affirmative gender identity therapy. But here's what they don't know.

I am gender questioning, religious questioning, and DEFINITELY not straight. In fact, all I'd really need is to have a serious crush on or be romantically involved with someone who is intersex and/or a lot of people at different places in the non-binary range and I will have covered the entire spectrum from actual personal experience, and I know that that is very much a possibility with me and would only really take the right person to click with me on a personality level. So, I feel "pansexual" fits me best, because "bisexual" doesn't even begin to cover this mess. As far as religion goes, I was raised Christian my whole life (christian family, private christian school, church every sunday and wednesday and holiday, the works) so that's not completely going away ever, but I have some problems and doubts with certain popular christian doctrine and beliefs that I don't think my parents would appreciate. My beliefs basically go, I choose to believe that we are being protected by a loving God (who transcends gender; weaning myself off of "He") who accepts people into heaven based off of their actual life rather than whether or not they said some empty promise and got dunked in water, and that whether or not Jesus was a real person or a myth or the actual son of God, he is one of the best role models of all time (up there with Gandhi if not passing him a bit) that I choose to follow the teachings of. You can see how they probably won't appreciate that too much.

And here's more things they don't know: my boyfriend, whom I am dating casually due to the fact that he is eventually moving to germany and I am not (which makes our relationship temporary and we went into it knowing this; and my parents actually know that much), is actually trans (this is the only thing that I am 100% certain I will never tell them no matter what because he is stealth and it should be obvious why that will never be discussed or even so much as hinted at ever). Not only that, but he's actually not the only one... as of March, I am (consensually accepted and even encouraged by all parties involved) also dating a transwoman, who is open about her gender but not presenting as female at ALL, to the point where my parents are currently convinced that she is (not only just a friend to me, but also) a cisgender man. I have reconciled casually dating two people at once with my spirituality in that I am very open and therefore not cheating on either of them, and doing so casually rather than seriously (but casual in a serious way if that makes sense?) because right now I am looking to grow and find myself and others from a variety of relationships (platonic and romantic) rather than looking for a permanent life partner (and they both know and accept this). If ever the time came that I thought I'd learned as much as I was going to from my exploratory romantic life and would need to start looking to settle down permanently, I would part ways peacefully with my boyfriend (as we agreed would eventually happen from the beginning) and, if we were still dating, see if my girlfriend and I would work in the long haul, and move on (to only one person at a time) if we wouldn't.

TL;DR: I am a pansexual genderqueer/questioning and somewhat religious questioning individual who is dating a man and a woman at the same time and has Christian parents who know basically none of this aside from my boyfriend, and don't even know that the woman I am dating is, in fact, a woman (yet; I've been given permission from her to tell them whenever I feel like they could handle it).

I am just really lost on how to even start with any of this with them, or even WHERE to start. I have kind of compiled a list in my head, from possibly first to possibly last:

"Hey guys, my friend's name is actually Tera and if you could use female pronouns for her that'd be gr8. Yes I know she dresses like a guy all the time right now but she has her reasons and you should still respect her gender." (hoo boy, that's going to be a long conversation... they've only ever known one of my friends to be trans and had a pretty hard time accepting that, and I'm not even sure if they actually DID accept him; they just don't talk about things a lot openly so I can never be sure?)

"Guess who's kinda gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Hint: She has two thumbs and is actually bisexual" (I'm not looking forward to this one either)

"Actually scratch that, I am technically pansexual. And that means..." (I feel like this would be easier for them to take seriously if I presented as bisexual to them for a little bit beforehand, long enough for them to accept that, but I also feel like maybe I should just tell them I'm pansexual and explain it from the get-go?)

"So I've been thinking about this whole Popular Views of Christianity thing..." (Yes, I actually put this lower than sexuality on the list. That's how much I'm not looking forward to explaining that my views may not completely match theirs, even if they still match more than they would if I were, say, Wiccan... which I have considered before.)

From that point on, I don't actually know if I'll ever tell them anything else, unless I split with my boyfriend in which I have resolved to immediately tell my parents about my girlfriend (after they know it's actually possible for me to HAVE a girlfriend, and pretending that I just started dating her). My gender.... I don't even know how to touch that one. I'm thinking maybe it's because I don't know that much about it myself yet, and by the time all of this other stuff is out to them I'll be a bit more comfortable in myself and know myself more and have a clearer picture of how I want my gender to play into my life, and then maybe I will know how to approach coming out to them about my gender.

But I'm wondering, even if I have a small idea of how to tell them about the first couple things, how am I actually going to go about explaining to my Christian parents that not only am I supportive of LGBT* rights, but I am actually a member of the community? My mom seems more accepting than my dad so I will probably go to her first, but I'm worried that if I addressed them separately she'd just go to my dad before I could. On the OTHER hand, if I addressed them together, they might rely on each other and double-team me. Should I tell them in person? Should I email them? Should I write them a letter? Should I wait until I'm studying abroad in Canada next semester and won't see them again until December? Should I definitely, whatever I do, NOT do that? Should I address each issue separately or get it out all at once like ripping off a bandaid (and if I did, would they actually take me seriously or would it be too much at once for them to take seriously)? Should I even TRY to explain (firstly that I am, and secondly) why I'm dating two people at once, or bring up my gender issues? I can't decide how much is too much, or what would be the best approach at all... And given that they still think homosexuality is wrong, sources which explain academically the context of related bible passages would be extremely helpful. As Christians, what do you guys think? If you were a Christian who believed that the standard things mainstream Christians disapprove of are wrong, and had a recently-20 year old child who secretly was dealing with all of these things, what would probably be the best way for them to approach you about it?

That's a lot of complication all one time in your life dude, I don't know if I'd still be sane. And I honestly have no clue where to suggest starting.....but I hope someone around here might.

I can offer a nice, cold virtual beer (or other drink of your choice..) and a place to take a load off for a bit. Grab some couch...

Haha, sometimes that's all we really need. Thanks for the support man

It is going to take quite a bit of explaining over a long time.  I have a 40 year old cis daughter with whom I have been discussing this sort of thing for 30 of those years, and I expect it to go on another 30  years if I live that long. 

Big item, you have plans to be (outside of Gender and Sexuality) an honorable and productive citizen I hope.  Keep the G&S to a low roar and to yourself, but make career and general social goals high.  Keep that part of your life high in the folks field of vision.  I actually get bored as hell listening to the ins and outs (yep I am making a sexual reference) of my children's lives, and it really makes them turn green if I discuss how their mother and I "begat" them. (Yeah, they were born because their mom and I had sex, so were my grandkids the result of my kid's having sex.)

There are a couple of Christian oriented churches that will accept you with what you have described above with no problem and can help you find the doctrinal answers a bit better (Metropolitan Community Churches are high on that list) as well as a you to Deity relationship.  Mom and Dad will be a little blue that you are leaving your "family church" but they will probably not question you too much about the finer points of theology, especially the genders of God etc.  You will have a church family and that is really one of the big things the parental visions want.

Since I am a transsexual who is part of the LGBTIQ life in a big city, including activism and socializing, I know that for the most part, we are good loving people and a lot of fun to be around if you don't look at some of us too hard and turn your eyeballs to stone. 

Unless your parents are MENSA level psychologists or social scientists, please do both of you a favor and don't even try to fully explain your feelings and sexuality to them until you become adult friends with them somewhere down the road.  If you really really really must discuss it with them, first get some Gender Therapy yourself, and get a therapist who can invite them in for full family sessions, where they can help you. 

Before I came out to my dad, I started thinking about religion and some how managed to find some questions.

Do you believe got want us to be happy?
And that the soul was before and will be after completely sepetate to the body?
And that since god is everything and nothing, god can present as male, female and yet both and niether, and can ultimately be what they want to be?
And by this then does it not then mean that the image of god humanity was created in might not then be the image of the body, but quite possibly be the image of the soul/personality? And that if our bodies are made perfect in heaven that the body of a transexual must be made female in heaven els that so called become a hell for that person.

I then went to bring up the idea of homosexuality being quite possibly an answer to over population and orphans. And pointed out for god the most importan thing is that a child is loved and cared for and that having a mummy and a daddy isn't always what is best. But religion is by far the most complicated of issues. So somtimes I make our convasations about a religios princible but make the discusion about how my dad feels about it, not what he is told about it.

I also point out that I believe that for heavens sake that two people can go in different directions and aslong as they believe they are doing the right thing, and that in this way both are heading in heavens direction. Because I believe that its not what we do but why that is important and if you can only be happy if you do a specific thing then that is somthing god would want you to do.

But the truth is everybody is different, and not everybody has the same beliefs. But I can say this, religion its self is a big part of my choice to transition and has my back in it  and my dad can see in some way that even though our religios views constrast at times he can see that we both do what we do because we believ it the right thing to do, and just as he is on his path so too am I.

Sorry I don't know any magic words, but I hope I have atleast given you an idea about how you might aprooach the subject with them, if you do at all. And I'd also like to point out, I came out just over a year ago and I'm 26/27 So that might of had a large affect on my dads reaction, (can't exacly wag your finger and say go to your room whenthe person you talking to is abviously not sombody who is going to accept that as a responce)

Quote from: Vicky on May 05, 2014, 12:37:44 PM
It is going to take quite a bit of explaining over a long time.  I have a 40 year old cis daughter with whom I have been discussing this sort of thing for 30 of those years, and I expect it to go on another 30  years if I live that long. 

Big item, you have plans to be (outside of Gender and Sexuality) an honorable and productive citizen I hope.  Keep the G&S to a low roar and to yourself, but make career and general social goals high.  Keep that part of your life high in the folks field of vision.  I actually get bored as hell listening to the ins and outs (yep I am making a sexual reference) of my children's lives, and it really makes them turn green if I discuss how their mother and I "begat" them. (Yeah, they were born because their mom and I had sex, so were my grandkids the result of my kid's having sex.)

Unless your parents are MENSA level psychologists or social scientists, please do both of you a favor and don't even try to fully explain your feelings and sexuality to them until you become adult friends with them somewhere down the road.  If you really really really must discuss it with them, first get some Gender Therapy yourself, and get a therapist who can invite them in for full family sessions, where they can help you.

So you're saying I should only tell them if it becomes immediately relevant to my life? I guess that makes sense... That was kind of what I had already planned on doing, I was just thinking that maybe if I came out before it became relevant they'd have time to get used to it and already would be when it did, you know? But I'm very stubborn and think little to nothing of my sexuality, so I'm sure when the time comes that that plays into my life they'll have to get used to it because I'll refuse to budge. Gender, on the other hand... that's gunna be a bit harder to stand my ground with.

QuoteThere are a couple of Christian oriented churches that will accept you with what you have described above with no problem and can help you find the doctrinal answers a bit better (Metropolitan Community Churches are high on that list) as well as a you to Deity relationship.  Mom and Dad will be a little blue that you are leaving your "family church" but they will probably not question you too much about the finer points of theology, especially the genders of God etc.  You will have a church family and that is really one of the big things the parental visions want.

Since I am a transsexual who is part of the LGBTIQ life in a big city, including activism and socializing, I know that for the most part, we are good loving people and a lot of fun to be around if you don't look at some of us too hard and turn your eyeballs to stone. 

I've already left the family church for another church; in fact, I did that several years ago even before (but just barely before) I'd come to terms with my sexuality. My parent's don't know why I did it really have have asked once or twice (once expressing concerns that it might be a cult, since it was non-denominational and they didn't know much about it) but the conversation always dies out before I can explain that it's because they're an LGBT* affirmative church and, as friendly as ours was growing up, I don't want to go to a church where people believe that homosexuality (and gender identity aside from being cis) is a sin/abomination. Just because they don't preach it every sunday like some other churches do doesn't make it that much better. So yeah, I started going to an LGBT* friendly church in my senior year of high school, actually. They just don't know that being LGBT* friendly is what sets it apart.

Thank you for the advice!

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 05, 2014, 01:15:49 PM
Before I came out to my dad, I started thinking about religion and some how managed to find some questions.

Do you believe got want us to be happy?
And that the soul was before and will be after completely sepetate to the body?
And that since god is everything and nothing, god can present as male, female and yet both and niether, and can ultimately be what they want to be?
And by this then does it not then mean that the image of god humanity was created in might not then be the image of the body, but quite possibly be the image of the soul/personality? And that if our bodies are made perfect in heaven that the body of a transexual must be made female in heaven els that so called become a hell for that person.

wow... can I just say, thank you for this part right here in particular? I had never even thought about this before, but it makes a whole new world of sense! I remember as a child wishing really, really hard that heaven would be genderless; that we would just be floating orbs of spiritual energy with voices, or that we would all look the same, or whatever, so that our personalities (and maybe accessory choices) would be the only thing that mattered when expressing ourselves. But this makes much more sense. Maybe our souls really are gendered, and mine is just somewhere inbetween? Incredibly interesting to think about, I think it's been a long time since I actually thought about the nature of my soul in one way or another.

QuoteSorry I don't know any magic words, but I hope I have atleast given you an idea about how you might aprooach the subject with them, if you do at all. And I'd also like to point out, I came out just over a year ago and I'm 26/27 So that might of had a large affect on my dads reaction, (can't exacly wag your finger and say go to your room whenthe person you talking to is abviously not sombody who is going to accept that as a responce)

No no, your answer was actually really helpful and made me think, thanks a lot! And yeah, that makes sense... maybe I will mention something to them, if not when it becomes immediately relevant to how they see me, once I finish college and become financially stable enough to save up for grad school and live separately from them... I should be about 25/26 by then, if I graduate on time when I'm newly 22.